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Author Topic: Utilizing natural resources and waste recycling to cut costs Boob Raider Amateur Member # 1613 Rate Member posted September 11, 2002 03:14 PM                     The basic purpose of this topic, apart from cutting down costs, is to have a non-traceable source of precursors. I don't know about the feasibility of all the sources for explosive/CW agent synth but it could be taken up as a hobby. There are related discussions going around not in detail (except for P4) and not from natural sources or civil waste products. Like for those of us living on coastal areas ..... I2 can be obtained from sea-weed. Those of us who are non-vegetarians can obtain some phosphorus from bone usually thrown away and also from match strikers. A lot of Cd can be obtained from Ni-Cd batteries, also the Ni found in them makes a great catalyst. I was wondering if the NiH2 or NiH4 found in the rechargeable NiHydride batteries can be used for H2 gas production or used as a reducing agent, or used as fuel in ozidizer compositions. Collecting noble metals from catalytic converters and bulb reflectors etc.I know of apple and cherry seeds containing cyanides and other seeds too. Custard apple seed oil is a very strong irritant and pesticide. K2CO3 from fire place ash. Ca(COO)2 from rhubarb. Also like nitrifing bacterias can be used to prepare -NO2 and -NO3. Many fungi breakdown starch into Butanol and Acetone. Other sources will be greatly appreciated. I have Cd meshes from the batteries but they just wont melt to form a pellet/shot. It just fumes. I have taken out Li foils from the battery but they can't be stored for long as they react with the additives in the oil, so if it too can be melted the shelf-life can be greatly increased. Li melts at 180*C ~ so I was wondering if it could be melted under KOH or NaOH. -------------------- "Even though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear No Evil, for The Almighty is with me" Psalm 23 Posts: 63 | From: Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged A43tg37 A New Voice Member # 854 Member Rated: posted September 11, 2002 08:50 PM                     This reminds me of something I was doing a bit of research on recently. I've read that certain kinds of grasses and alfalfas can contain enough nitrates (1-3%) absorbed from the soil to poison cattle and produce NO2 gas in silos when they decay. And that's at only 3%. Well, this got me thinking and looking for other plant sources of nitrates, with a higher nitrate content perhaps. As it turns out, there is one-an herb called borage. From: http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/b/borage66.html "Borage contains potassium and calcium, combined with mineral acids. The fresh juice affords 30 per cent, the dried herb 3 per cent of nitrate of potash. The stems and leaves supply much saline mucilage, which when boiled and cooked likewise deposits nitre and common salt. It is to these saline qualities that the wholesome invigorating properties of Borage are supposed to be due. Owing to the presence of nitrate of potash when burnt, it will emit sparks with a slight explosive sound. " 30% is a pretty decent yield of potassium nitrate. And it turns out borage is fairly cheap to buy as seeds, can grow decently even in poor soils, and both the plant and its seed oil have herbal medicinal uses so it wouldn't be suspicious to grow. Just something to consider. Oh, and while on the subject of easy, non-suspicoious, common sources, I suppose if one was really desperate or if the laws are made very strict concerning fertilizer, one could get KNO3 from Denquel and Sensodyne toothpastes. But they only contain 5% potassium nitrate and it's mixed in with other ingredients that probably won't be too easy to separate out. To me, borage sounds like it has more potential as a nitrate source. Oh, and to anyone who thinks that KNO3 will always be around as fertilizer, so why worry with these sources, and thinks that governments will never be able to ban nitrate fertilizers, consider this. In the 1960's, methylamine (MDMA and meth precursor) could be had by the 55 gallon drum without suspicion, and dynamite could still be bought in some rural hardware stores. My how things change. In thirty or forty years (Actually, probably in a lot less time than that, unfortunately), if things continue like they are today, we may well need these natural sources. [ September 11, 2002, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: A43tg37 ] Posts: 10 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged Boob Raider Amateur Member # 1613 Rate Member posted September 11, 2002 09:04 PM                     Actually recently I went to buy KNO3 and the guy at the store gives me a weird look and says .... "ahh No one buys this stuff" . This kinda pissed me off . So I turn to these sources. -------------------- "Even though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear No Evil, for The Almighty is with me" Psalm 23 Posts: 63 | From: Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged Boob Raider Amateur Member # 1613 Rate Member posted September 12, 2002 09:41 PM                     My Building Stinks! (That's the name of the article) Published in Engineered Systems Magazine by Daniel Karpen, P.E. April 1, 1999 Recent research has shown that mold in air conditioning systems leads to poor air quality and health problems. The VOCs (volatile organic compounds) detected in the metabolic gaseous emissions of cultured fungi included several that are frequently identified in indoor environments. Many of these VOCs are frequently theorized as originating from solvent-based materials and cleaning supplies. However, this is not the case, especially in the most badly contaminated buildings. In the cultured fungi, the following VOCs were detected: methylene chloride; hexane; 2-heptanone; hexanol; 2-pentanol; methyl acetate; benzene; 2-propanyl acetate; acetone; carbon disulfide; 2-pentanone; furan; dihydrofuran; methyl furan; 2,2-dimethylpropanol; styrene; acetic acid; ethanol; isopropanol; 1,1-dimethyl hydroperoxide; ethyl acetate; 2-methyl-1-pripanol; 1, 4-pentadiene; 1-methoxy-2-methylbenzene; and 3-methyl-2-butanone. The compound 1-butoxy-2-propanol, a very foul-smelling compound indeed, is often found in moldy areas of buildings. The compound 2-ethylhexanol is a known eye irritant with an unpleasant odor, and it may be associated with skin and upper repiratory irritations. In the hotel and in two of the schools, the following compounds were identified as being present in the indoor air: acetone; benzene; 2-butoxyethanol; p-dichlorobenzene; 1,1-dichloroethane; ethyl acetate; hexane; furan; limonene; pinene; tetrachloroethane; toluene; 1,1,1-trichloroethane; and xylene. See any useful things in the above list. -------------------- "Even though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear No Evil, for The Almighty is with me" Psalm 23 Posts: 63 | From: Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged irish Newbie Member # 1323 Rate Member posted September 13, 2002 05:05 AM                    research your local mineral resources old mines etc. and get yourself a good hand book on minerals/chemistry of minerals. there are a lot of chemicals and elements that can be obtained from common minerals in most places. also one can get chemicals of elements that are normaly hard to get. it is fun finding them too . Irish Posts: 5 | From: vic.australia | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged frogfot A New Voice Member # 1545 Rate Member posted September 13, 2002 11:48 AM                     Yesterday i went into forest and found alot of borage, it grows on side of roads, where sun reaches. So, i picked up about 2,7kg I hope that is borage, it smelled a bit like cucumber, so it have to be right stuff.. i got it through a meat-chopper and now it lyes in a bucket.. it stayed there for a day and juice beginned to separate, hihi, now i hope i'll get something from it. I have taken 300g of this mess, added 200ml water, boiled for 30min, filtered, here i got 375ml liquid, then i boiled it off to about 60ml and now its evaporating on plate... (it smelled when i boiled.. ) i just wanna see how much salts there are. Btw, i felt like an old witch.. I wonder a little, 30% seems to be a bit high, think, if 38g KNO3 can be dissolved in 100ml water at 25deg C, that means that plant got nearly saturated solution of KNO3, than if temperature outside falls to say, about 5deg C, should there cristolize KNO3 in a plant?!?!? haha, that would look funny, therefore thats a bit hard to belive about 30%.. or maby i missed something? Maby K and NO3 is binded somehow in the plant and got to be separated, well i'll wait till this mess in my bucket ferments a bit mmm... Posts: 22 | From: Sweden | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged NoltaiR Researcher Member # 1033 Member Rated: posted September 13, 2002 01:04 PM                        haha.. is this a newbie topic or what? I don't see anybody that has posted in this thread with more than 29 posts ('boob raider').. ah well I just had to throw that one in there.. continue on -------------------- Big Bang Theory?... You have got to be kidding me... --God Posts: 332 | From: The one state that could legally form its own navy.. Texas | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged Boob Raider Amateur Member # 1613 Rate Member posted September 13, 2002 09:30 PM                     So far yes. Hey NBK help me out here . Oh the name "Boob Raider" was inspired by the movie "Tomb Raider". Lara Croft raided tombs, I raid Boobs . -------------------- "Even though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear No Evil, for The Almighty is with me" Psalm 23 Posts: 63 | From: Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged frogfot A New Voice Member # 1545 Rate Member posted September 19, 2002 11:07 AM                     Come on, have anybody a comment about those 30% ? Posts: 22 | From: Sweden | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged rc Bottle Washer Member # 1168 Rate Member posted September 19, 2002 03:23 PM                     You got the point already in the earlier post. It's not possible. -------------------- Ignorance has killed also the Wise. Posts: 31 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged Boob Raider Amateur Member # 1613 Rate Member posted September 19, 2002 09:09 PM                     Frogfot .... that info is from a website www.botanical.com like mentioned above. However the fact that the juice of the plant has a higher % of -NO3 than the dried herb , also doesn't make sense to me too. Frogfot ..... what happened to "the mess that was fermenting in a bucket" ? How much -NO3 cryatals did you collect ? Has no one ever extracted Cd form Ni/Cd's and Li from Li batteries ? I need some advice melting them. [ September 19, 2002, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Boob Raider ] -------------------- "Even though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear No Evil, for The Almighty is with me" Psalm 23 Posts: 63 | From: Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged NoltaiR Researcher Member # 1033 Member Rated: posted September 19, 2002 11:38 PM                        I definetly try to cut costs in everything... even when I go grocery shopping I always keep an eye out for something that could be used in a lab that is on sale. And my newest saving money deal is actually coming from a ceramics class I am taking. I am going to make my own clay shells (for aerial firework shots)... I just have to convince my teacher that what I am making is not something that could be used for drugs. --the first time I made one he was convinced that it was going to be turned into a bong-- -------------------- Big Bang Theory?... You have got to be kidding me... --God Posts: 332 | From: The one state that could legally form its own navy.. Texas | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged A43tg37 A New Voice Member # 854 Member Rated: posted September 20, 2002 12:58 AM                     Boob Raider...The reason the juice has a higher percentage of nitrate than the dried herb itself is simple. The pure juice is mostly water, nitrate, and a salt and organic acids (also, perhaps a small quantity of natural plant sugars), whereas the dried herb contains mostly cellulose and other plant constituents in addition to the dried sap that contains the nitrate. It's kind of like there's more malic acid in concentrated apple juice than in an apple, or more maple sugar in maple sap than in the tree itself. Oh, and Frogfot, I'm also interested in how your experiment turned out. Any useable quantities of nitrate? [ September 20, 2002, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: A43tg37 ] Posts: 10 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged frogfot A New Voice Member # 1545 Rate Member posted September 20, 2002 02:17 PM                     I got thick syrup on plate from it, thicker than honey.. i heated a bit of it over flame, the stuff just fluffed up and turned to coal.. Than i made a desperate move and mixed this syrup with sugar, same result. So, i guess there arn't much nitrates, sorry i have no other posibilities of testing it for nitrates Now i got to my previous wondering.. maby it wasn't right plant, though it smelled cucumber, like in description.. or, maby theres no useful ammount of nitrates at all. Well, i'll let it go. Posts: 22 | From: Sweden | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged Boob Raider Amateur Member # 1613 Rate Member posted September 20, 2002 09:17 PM                     Frogfot ..... take a little bit of that honey thingy and mix about the same amount of H2SO4 in it and see if you get any reddish-brown fumes. Also go on google and search for borage in the image section and then get an id of the plant. -------------------- "Even though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear No Evil, for The Almighty is with me" Psalm 23 Posts: 63 | From: Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged frogfot A New Voice Member # 1545 Rate Member posted September 21, 2002 07:31 AM                     Now im sure i got right plant. No fumes, i used battery acid, not that concentrated which can be a foalt but i got low budget. Mmm, anyway, with my 15kg bought saltpetre i shouldnt collect those plants Posts: 22 | From: Sweden | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged

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