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Author Topic: ANNM at OB rc Bottle Washer Member # 1168 Rate Member posted July 01, 2002 04:07 PM                     I searched the web and archives and could find nothing related. I got this idea after reading the thread 'balancing AN+NM...' in Chemistry related. For the OB the following formula was suggested 3 NH4NO3 + 2 CH3NO2 --> 2 CO2 + 9 H2O + 4 N2 This means mixing 3 parts of NM to 4 parts of AN. Okey I know the AN would basically drown into NM and thus the spare NM wouldn't be sensitized. It's hard to find a binder which would separate AN equally into the NM. Now here comes the idea: what if you make a solution of 50/50 solution of AN/water and dip some cotton wool into the solution(the wool absorbs enough to fill its volume). Now put the wool to dry into an oven. After about 2 hours at 100C you should have some wool whose volume is half filled by AN but still have the half room left. Then get a water-proof casing for the wool and pour as much NM in as the wool absorbs. You should have some equally sensitized ANNM at OB. Sorry for my bad english. -------------------- Ignorance has killed also the Wise. Posts: 31 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged kingspaz Moderator Member # 91 Member Rated: posted July 01, 2002 04:30 PM                     good idea BUT thats not how it gets sensitised. the ammonium ion (NH4+) reacts with the nitromethane to form nitromethane salts which are very sensitive. i'm sure i've seen the equations around somewhere but i can't find them and i'm too uneducated to figure them out at the moment. -------------------- The unexamined life is not worth living to a human Posts: 1085 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged rc Bottle Washer Member # 1168 Rate Member posted July 01, 2002 04:47 PM                     You mean there occurs a chemical reaction between AN and NM? Is it that there NH4+ ion sensitises the NO2- group(not really an ion but has a slight negative charge) and other way around. This is just a guess. When the two components are equally mixed there would thus be more sensitised molecules and when in 1 to 1 equations it would too have OB. -------------------- Ignorance has killed also the Wise. Posts: 31 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged Helos Bottle Washer Member # 1444 Rate Member posted July 01, 2002 05:03 PM                        it maybee a good solution if you want maxiumum performance, but it is also possible that the wool will lower the detonation speed. The stoichometrich mix is 66AN/33NM, it´s what I have heard. I did a fast calculation on your formula, and yes according to that formula it is 0,337NM and 0,663AN! (and not 3/4) Althought it isn´t shure that the detonation scheme is exactly this: 3 NH4NO3 + 2 CH3NO2 --> 2 CO2 + 9 H2O + 4 N2 Byproducts may form also, anyone who nows more about this? I hadn´t looked at this detonation scheme before but it´s interresting, indeed. It shows that no poisonous gases like NO2 comes out if the NM/AN is balanced. It can also explain the white smoke that you can see for a brief period of time when ANNM detonates. Back to the topic... The last (and first) time I used ANNM I used owendried AN and NM(25)% I could easily have used more NM, it was close to dry with 25 percent. So if you want to use 33% NM, use owendried AN (can absorb more) But NM is expensive and if you want to balance the oxygen in AN and also have a cheaper mix, mix in a bit of methanol, xylene, toluene, benzene or terpentine for example. I don´t have the exact values but it is something like: (3,3%xylene, 15,1%NM, 86,6%AN) Do some quick searches and you will find the rest. This makes that you can use nitromethane with 30% methanol togheter with AN and you can get a better mix than pure NM/AN 25/75!, I think. -------------------- HeLos Posts: 37 | From: Sweden | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged rc Bottle Washer Member # 1168 Rate Member posted July 01, 2002 05:16 PM                     it's 3 to 4 by volume That formula is just theoretical. There will always be some amounts of CO, NOx and some other gases but considerably less when at OB. Also the two components should be perfectly mixed for the OB to occur which is impossible but we can get close by using some binder(?) or technically separating the components(cotton wool). [ July 01, 2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: rc ] -------------------- Ignorance has killed also the Wise. Posts: 31 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged DBSP Researcher Member # 790 Member Rated: posted July 01, 2002 06:12 PM                        To make the OB balance better with methanol you can use the following ratios. Ammonium nitrate 1000g, Nitromethane 185g (162ml), Methanol 84g (106ml) This info is taken from Wansomfets home page which in turn has taken the info from U.S. Patent 4,093,478 ("Activated Ammonium Nitrate Explosive", Gerald L. Hurst) You get a very wet explosive but it workes quite well. -------------------- http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47804009/E&W/ Posts: 457 | From: Sweden | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged Mr Cool Moderator Member # 347 Member Rated: posted July 02, 2002 02:50 PM                        NC would help, by thickening the NM. Only a little bit would be needed, so it wouldn't significantly affect the OB. It would still settle out slowly, but it'd be better than nothing. IIRC polymethylacrylate also gels NM. You might need some special method though, such as some careful, controlled heating and/or cooling to form the gel, or maybe a few other components. I think there was a thread ages ago about gelling NM with PMA, it should be in the archives. -------------------- "Nothing makes a man fear much, more than to know little." - Francis Bacon. Posts: 1440 | From: A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away... | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged Pu239 Stuchtiger Researcher Member # 1029 Member Rated: posted July 02, 2002 08:07 PM                        NH4NO3 + CH3NO2 <-----> NH4CH2NO2 + HNO3 The equilibrium is strongly to the left, but there is still some NH4CH2NO2 around (which should be quite sensitive). Posts: 341 | From: Preferrably off-planet | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged xtreme Amateur Member # 1310 Rate Member posted July 24, 2002 05:47 PM                        I don't want to start a new topic (To "Young" on the forrum) Just a question: Can ANNM used for blasting caps ? At the moment I use MF (Mercury Fulminate) what is expensive and very toxic I have no RDX/PETN (yet) Last week I get NM. Detonate my first ANNM.... WOW ! Damn what a powerfull blast ! (not only hearing, but feeling it too in my ears) Is it possible to use a combination (no...not the chemicals mixed ) of MF and ANNM. I want to reduce the use of MF Will the ANNM decompose (NM vaporation...) over time (how much time) I like MF because it's power and it can be stored for a long time. ANNM is much cheaper, safer and easy to make. Storage time of ANNM ? Can a little MF detonated a little of ANNM ? -------------------- Did you have your NO2 shot today? Posts: 57 | From: Netherlands, Amsterdam | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged Anthony Moderator Member # 72 Member Rated: posted July 24, 2002 07:28 PM                     You'd probably need at least 0.5gm of MF, maybe 1gm. I really don't know if ANNM will reliably detonate in such tiny (2-5gm) amounts. As for shelf-life, I would count on more than couple of days, if the ANNM is sealed from the atmosphere. ANNM really isn't a great choice for a base charge in a blasting cap. Posts: 3259 | From: England | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged Einstein Bottle Washer Member # 1244 Member Rated: posted July 25, 2002 11:17 AM                     I have been thinking this subject via email with rc. It would be good if someone can test that cotton wool/AN/NM-mix. But OB cannot be achieved perfectly, but close enough. When I have detonated ANNM charges, they put out hell-of-a-smoke-screen that will float on non-windy day for 15 mins. I have once been in that smoke and my nose said "dangerous"...it will took for breath to be in that smoke, so it WONT be healthy There is something like carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides (NOx) and IIRC propably water. -------------------- Only genious can control chaos. Posts: 43 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged xtreme Amateur Member # 1310 Rate Member posted July 25, 2002 11:52 AM                        I don't think carbonoxide (carbonmonoxide, CO) First...you can't smell this, secondly....this gas is flammable/explosive and should (if formed) explode bij the detonation of ANNM. When carbonmonoxide is formed by a detonation and don't explode with the detonation.....something is way out of balance. Carbonmonoxide formed when there is to much fuel compared with oxigen (oxidator) And we al know.....ANNM = very load and powerfull BOOOM ! and a nice fireball (oxigen enough) So....I dont think it's carbonmonoxide. -------------------- Did you have your NO2 shot today? Posts: 57 | From: Netherlands, Amsterdam | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged DarkAngel Sr. Researcher Member # 86 posted July 25, 2002 08:22 PM                        The Nitro Methane could be sucked up by the Mercury Fulminate and make it insensitive for ignition by flame. [ July 25, 2002, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: DarkAngel ] -------------------- Im an explosive expert,if you see me running run after me! Posts: 683 | From: ? | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged KinePak Bottle Washer Member # 1473 Member Rated: posted September 08, 2002 11:29 AM                        Some of you guys wanted me to do a metal test with my Kinepak, so thats what I did yesterday, as well as set off a 50lb bag of ANFO prilled fertilizer grade, with kinepak as booster. Anyways this was a 1lb charge of kinepak set under a 4x8 sheet of 3/8" steel, it was thrown about 300ft in the air and ripped apart, so basically it was fucked. I got pics and an explanatory video on my FTP if you guys are interested. ftp://24.170.23.40/pub/explosives/9-7-02/kinepak%20metaltest1.jpg ftp://24.170.23.40/pub/explosives/9-7-02/results%20of%20metaltest.jpg +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ DUDE! 1.4Mb for just TWO PICTURES?! That's insane! If a picture is larger than 30kb in size, use links. It takes forever for huge ass pictures to download...and this pisses me off because I'm on a snail slow dial-up connection. Also, please learn to use Photoshop (on the FTP) to shrink down your pictures to a more managable size. Everyone will thank you for it. NBK Sorry about that, I will just need to change the settings on my camera I think, if not I will use some type of editor from now on. Again, sorry, didnt think about that one. [ September 09, 2002, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: KinePak ] -------------------- " Watch This, I Aint Scared " ftp://24.170.23.40 Posts: 32 | From: Mississippi | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged PYRO500 Moderator Member # 73 Member Rated: posted September 08, 2002 12:00 PM                        WOW! that's a HUGE picture, it looks nice but for us with only 1024*786 resolution could you scale it down a bit? -------------------- Society creates the crime, the criminal completes it. Posts: 2029 | From: somewhere in florida | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged Eliteforum Researcher Member # 166 posted September 08, 2002 12:38 PM                  Or better yet, just provide a link to the pictures! -------------------- C:>Freedom - Bad command or file name | C:>Individuality - Bad command or file name | C:>Self - Bad command or file name | C:>Control - The system controls everything - The system controls you! Posts: 301 | From: White America | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged

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