WBS (Wild Bird Seed) Bulk Spawn Preparation Method  

By Mycota

Nan's Nook Archives : Misc Teks : Whole Grain Teks  : Bird Seed Teks


Posted by: Mycota Nov 24 02, 04:49 AM GMT
WBS consists primarily of white millet. It is often a combination of white & red millet - with a small percentage of sunflower seeds and sometimes tiny amounts of crushed corn. Some expensive brands are coated with a fungicide. For use as spawn material, treated WBS is not advisable.

You can find untreated WBS in 5 -10 & 20 pound bags, at low prices at most large chain grocery stores, or chain type pet supply stores. For instance, PetsMart has 40 pound bags for around $8.

Simply place whatever quantity you intend to use in a plastic pot, tub or bucket. Bear in mind, dry seed will expand about 20 to 25% - after it absorbs its capacity of water. Add tap water & soak the seed overnight. A 8 to 12 hour soak is fine. Seed soaked longer will begin to ferment. But, is still usable after soaking 24 to 36 hours.

There is no need to remove any floating husks, or sunflower seeds. These add lignin ( a good thing) & do not harbor any more possible contams than does the millet. It is all going to get thoroughly sterilized - anyway.

Once soaked, simply rinse the seed very thoroughly in a colander, or strainer. Then allow it to drain - WELL. As in 30 or more minutes. If it is drips - one drop. It is not drained - WELL.

Load pint or quart jars ĺ full, apply internal filter disk, material, polyfil or whatever method you use allow gas exchange through a ľ or 3/8 inch hole in the lid. Screw lid on tight & back it off ľ turn. Place a double layer of paper coffee filters over the lid & jar top, held down by a thick rubber band. Place the jars in the PC.

PC at 15 pounds for a full 60 minutes. 90 minutes is better, if you have the time. Allow the PC pressure to drop to zero & let it cool a bit. Open while still hot & remove jars. The paper coffee filters will dry almost instantly, when the PC is opened. Tighten lids (if necessary), shake jars to insure there are no clumps of seed inside. Place jars inside the oven on a rack, to cool, overnight. External coffee filters simply add another layer of protection to the jars content.

Once cooled to room temperature, store in a clean cardboard box - until used. Using them sooner than later is preferable. Note: This method was done in an All American PC. Some brands with a weighted pressure system require more internal water & it may be advisable to also cover the coffee filters with tin foil- while PC'ing, so no excess boiling water gains entry into the jars. Simply remove the tinfoil when you remove the jars from the PC.


Mycota tongue.gif wink.gif

Ya start with this. Ya soak a bucket full overnight.


Mycota wink.gif


Then you rinse it & drain it well. As in NO DRIPS, at all.


Once well drained, ya load jars about 3/4 full.

Mycota wink.gif


Then, add: TyvekTM filter



If using metal, ya add the lid top


 

Then, the ring.

Or, if using plastic lids, ya just screw the puppy - on.


Then add a double layer of coffee filters, over the lid, held down with a rubber band



Then - you load as many jars into your PC, as it will hold & PC at least 90 minutes.


Then ya unload the puppy, while it is still hot & shake the jars.



The end result is jars that all have a perfect moisture content & NO CLUMPS. Mycota wink.gif



Then, you let the jars cool to room temp & knock then up with whatever choice of

ammo you have (Multispore Syringe, Liquid Culture, Agar Isolate Wedge - or G2G)

Mycota wink.gif


Then, incubate around 80F. Mycota


*raises-hand*

1.-Can-white-millet-be-used-instead-of-WBS?--Is-there-any-
---benefit-of-using-WBS-over-pure-white-millet?

2.-How-long-does-it-take-to-reach-100%-colonization?

3.-After-20%-colonization-it-is-recommended-to-shake,-right?
---Doesn't-filling-the-jars-3/4-full-(as-opposed-to-1/2-full)-make
---shaking-difficult?

4.-Why-wouldn't-it-make-more-sense-to-use-a-second-and-third
---layer-of-Tyvek-instead-of-coffee-filters.--Won't-coffee-filters
---let-contams-through-easily?

Thanks-in-advance!

P.S.-I'm-getting-a-new-keyboard-soon.--No,-really!


Voodoo Replies:

1.-Can-white-millet-be-used-instead-of-WBS?--Is-there-any-
---benefit-of-using-WBS-over-pure-white-millet?

Yup, but I dont know of any benefits.

2.-How-long-does-it-take-to-reach-100%-colonization?

10 days from someone I used to know.

3.-After-20%-colonization-it-is-recommended-to-shake,-right?
---Doesn't-filling-the-jars-3/4-full-(as-opposed-to-1/2-full)-make
---shaking-difficult?

Shake them whenever you feel like it. 20% should be good.
Not really, just dont fill them past 3/4 or its a pain in the ass.

4.-Why-wouldn't-it-make-more-sense-to-use-a-second-and-third
---layer-of-Tyvek-instead-of-coffee-filters.--Won't-coffee-filters
---let-contams-through-easily?

The coffee filters just keep the Tyvek from getting too wet and fuckering it all up. (I think. Tin foil is good too.)

I am by no means an expert.
 


Mycota

When my raccoon first started, he did a 50 lb bag of plain white millet, with the soak, rinse, drain & load - method. He does not care for it (alone). It seems dry out.

He did the same with a 50 lb bag of straight rye. It seemed prone to clumps & was often to wet & a few times, bacterial sludge set in.

He then MIXED some straight rye & white millet. Which did better. Then, he realized WBS was a mix, was available everywhere & much cheaper. So, he tried that & never wenrt back.

The advantage of the WBS mix is that some seeds in it, soak up more, some less & the mix all BALANCES out - perfect - evert time.

Under optimal conditions, Average colonization time from spore innoc is 15 days. Average time with G2G or liquid culture is 10 - 11 days.

Certainly, besides under the lid Tyvek, you can ALSO cover the lids with Tyvek, or more coffee filters, tinfoil, even cling wrap (after PC'ing on the cling wrap).

No, THIS SHAKING THING. MYC IS TINY & TENDER. Shaking is like BATTERING IT. How long does it take YOU to HEAL, after being BATTERED?

After SHAKING, Myc takes a day (or 3) to HEAL & start growing - again.

I SHAKE ONE TIME, at around 15 - 20% colonization. More, only batters it more - adding time for it to HEAL & start growing - again.

Make sense?

Mycota (aka 6T)

 



Grain to Grain Transfers (G2G)

Once you have learned to prepare sterilized spawn pint or quart jars of bird seed, rye or grains & fully colonize them with mycelium. You can easily propagate a single colonized quart jar of that into about 20 more via G2G transfers. Jars propagated via G2G transfers generally colonize under optimal conditions 100% in 10 to 14 days . Given that, spores do not have to germinate, as what is transferred to freshly prepared jars is active mycelium on fully colonized seed or grains.

The method is to prepare fresh jars, just as you would to inoculate via a spore syringe (soak seed, rinse, drain, load, apply filter disk & PC). Excepting, rather than inoculate the fresh jars with a syringe. You transfer grain from a colonized jar to fresh uncolonized jars. The procedure is simple & only requires common sense, minimal preparation, a long stout clean stainless steel spoon & the cleanest personal hygiene and the smallest uncarpeted working place you can muster.

Prepare the smallest cleanest uncarpeted room you have (generally, a bathroom). In the following manner. Clean the room as best you can, getting rid of any dirt, dust, mold or mildew. Remove any cloth hanging anywhere. Spray Lysol on everything, everywhere & wipe it down. If you have any hepa type air filter unit? Place it in the room & run it for at least 1 hour. Running a hepa is preferable, but, if you donít have one. You can usually manage without it

Wipe your fully colonized jar of grain & your fresh jars down, with a clean Lysol sprayed rag. Place those in the room, on the counter top, or whatever flat working surface you intend to use. Wear freshly laundered clean cloths. If you have a face mask (preferable) wear it. If you have a shower cap to cover your hair (preferable), wear it. Enter the room, spray Lysol around (again) run the hepa for a few minutes (if you have one). Then, turn it off. Spray your hands & arms with Lysol & wipe dry.

Unscrew the lid off the colonized jar. Leave the internal filter disk or filter material in place covering the content. Unscrew the lid on a fresh jar, leaving the internal filter material in place. Remove the filter material from the colonized jar & dig up about ľ of content, as it will be colonized into a solid mass. Spoon out 2 table spoons full & transfer them to the uncolonized jar, by lifting itís filter up & spooning them in. Replace the filter material on the fresh jar IMMEDIATELY after spooning in the colonized material.

Repeat this same process as many times as you have fresh jars to transfer to. Once done. Screw the fresh jars lids on tight. Cover the outside of the lids of the fresh jars with a double layer of alcohol swabbed coffee filters & rubber band them down. Shake each fresh jar to spread the colonized material throughout it. Place your fresh jars in a dry, dark, warm place (preferably between 78 & 84 F), and allow them to colonize in peace & quiet. G2G transfer & shaking jars batters the mycelium. It takes it a day or 3 recuperate from that shock. There is no need to shake G2G jars more than once. As, doing so will only slow colonization, rather than speed it up.

Mycota tongue.gif wink.gif

Also See: Grain to Grain Transfers : Clean Rooms : Cloning


Tyvek : Bird Seed Teks : Grain Teks Misc Teks : Archive Main : Shroom Glossary : The Nook

Posted by: Iggy Nov 19 02, 12:34 AM GMT
OK I am using finch seed that has a few whole sunflower seeds. I was wondering what effect if any the had in the colonization or nutrition? They are easy to remove due to them floating. Just add alot a water and swirl the glass around and they float to the top leaving the rest at the bottom. All you need now is a spoon to remove them. wink.gif I was wondering if anyone had done a comparison with and without? It works both ways I know, but I was wondering what everybodies preferences were? cool.gif


Posted by: Nanook Nov 19 02, 12:42 AM GMT
Whole sunflower seed is harder to get sterile.


Posted by: PhishinPhree Nov 19 02, 02:21 AM GMT
Iggy.. I use pemmington(spelling?) brand wild birdseed. It differs from their finch seed in two ways; it contains whole sunflower seeds instead of sunflower seed hearts and is less than 1/2 the price. 25lbs cost me less than 5 bucks and is enough seed to do around 3 dosen qt. jars.

Now to get to your question. I find that leaving whole sunflower seeds makes the seed more sticky after it is pc'd. Leaving the bird-kote coating on the seed will also cause it to become too sticky. As for colonization times, I do not notice a difference between jars with and jars without whole sunflower seed as long it is not the main ingrediant.


Posted by: User Exists Nov 19 02, 03:04 AM GMT
I only removed about half of the sunflower seeds from the wild bird feed that I have. It does not seem to be a problem, the jars a colonizing just fine. I also use Penningtons.


Posted by: brainbreath Nov 19 02, 06:19 AM GMT
Anybody know about black thistle seeds?
I got a huge bag for the bird feeder, and am curious
if cubies would grow on it? huh.gif
I'll probably give it a try anyway(whether you tell me it'll work or not)....
laugh.gif biggrin.gif I've got more spores than brains, I guess biggrin.gif laugh.gif

BTW, If you read this, Ion, you were right about the peanuts skull.gif brickwall.gif

I oughta make a list of subs that don't work rolleyes.gif


Posted by: Iggy Nov 19 02, 09:20 AM GMT
Wohooo! Nan has 420 posts! Way to go bro! I would never post again biggrin.gif (yeah I would) Well anyway the seed I have is Penningtons. I will probably remove the sunflower seed from now on for sanitary purposes. Thanks guys wink.gif


Posted by: Bob Roberts Nov 19 02, 12:21 PM GMT
I'm miffed about Pennington and the "Penkote" seed. YOu have to wash it off (which is a bitch), and it all never comes off. It is worth the extra effort to find one without the coating.

I use a strainer that lets all of the millet through and keeps most of the sunflower seeds behind. It's just a cheap plastic one, but does the job after a couple strainings. When you are steeping/simmering your grains, take a slotted spoon and remove what you can of the floating remaining sunflower seeds.

If you are having a hard time with sticking grains, then add gypsum. Usually do a little less than a teaspoon of finely sieved gypsum to a quart. Make sure to shake after PC'ing real thoroughly.



Posted by: 420M Nov 21 02, 03:36 AM GMT
Heya Guys. . .and gals. . .

Would like to get into birdseed after using expensive rye for years. . . the problem that I am having is that when I boil it for like 30 minutes a LOT of the kernels burst. . .and I heard that was a bad thing.

Would it be cool for me to rinse first, then soak overnight (12-16 hours), then load into jars and bags and PC for 60-120 minutes. Would that get the water content correct?

Please lemme know - my birdseed is dry as SHIT!

~420M~


Posted by: Fungusmaximus Nov 21 02, 05:42 AM GMT
Here man check this and you cant go wrong well almost. Dont cook your grain at a very high temp, after your reach 15psi, turn the heat way down. Just keep your weight at a low rattle.


Posted by: OneDiaDem Nov 21 02, 07:19 AM GMT
It is more than likely from too much water. Best way I can say to do birdseed, or millet, is, whatever size jar or container you are using, fill birdseed @ 1/3 of the way up the jar, after rinsing, and add no more than 1/8-1/4 inch of water above the grain line. That always worked for me.


Posted by: Munchin Nov 21 02, 08:50 AM GMT
Try this. Boil birdseed on low heat for about 30 min. Put it in a strainer and rinse with cool water. Cool water is important to use because the bird seed will continue to cook after it is drained unless you cool it off. Let it drain for 15 min. You will then have the perfect water content. Spoon into jars and pc. 1 hr is long enough and the broken kernals should be at a minimum. A friend told me this works for him every time. biggrin.gif


Posted by: Mycotia Nov 26 02, 01:49 AM GMT
WBS Tek (Wild Bird Seed) Bulk Spawn Preparation Method.

WBS consists primarily of white millet. It is often a combination of white & red millet - with a small percentage of sunflower seeds and sometimes tiny amounts of crushed corn. Some expensive brands are coated with a fungicide. For use as spawn material, treated WBS is not advisable.

You can find untreated WBS in 5 -10 & 20 pound bags, at low prices at most large chain grocery stores, or chain type pet supply stores. For instance, PetsMart has 40 pound bags for around $9.

Simply place whatever quantity you intend to use in a plastic pot, tub or bucket. Bear in mind, dry seed will expand about 20 to 25% - after it absorbs itís capacity of water. Add tap water & soak the seed overnight. A 8 to 12 hour soak is fine. Seed soaked longer will begin to ferment. But, is still usable after soaking 24 to 36 hours.

There is no need to remove any floating husks, or sunflower seeds. These add lignin (a good thing) & do not harbor any more possible contams than does the millet. It is all going to get thoroughly sterilized - anyway.

Once soaked, simply rinse the seed very thoroughly in a colander, or strainer. Then allow it to drain - WELL. As in 30 or more minutes. If it is drips - one drop. It is not drained - WELL.

Load pint or quart jars ĺ full, apply internal filter disk, material, polyfil or whatever method you use allow gas exchange through a ľ or 3/8 inch hole in the lid. Screw lid on tight & back it off ľ turn. Place a double layer of paper coffee filters over the lid & jar top, held down by a thick rubber band. Place the jars in the PC.

PC at 15 pounds for a full 60 minutes. 90 minutes is better, if you have the time. Allow the PC pressure to drop to zero & let it cool a bit. Open while still hot & remove jars. The paper coffee filters will dry almost instantly, when the PC is opened. Tighten lids (if necessary), shake jars to insure there are no clumps of seed inside. Place jars inside the oven on a rack, to cool, overnight. External coffee filters simply add another layer of protection to the jars content.

Once cooled to room temperature, store in a clean cardboard box - until used. Using them sooner than later is preferable. Note: This method was done in an All American PC. Some brands with a weighted pressure system require more internal water & it may be advisable to also cover the coffee filters with tin foil while PC'ing, so no excess boiling water gains entry into the jars. Simply remove the tinfoil when you remove the jars from the PC.


Posted by: 420M Nov 26 02, 03:33 AM GMT
Yes. .. thanks Mycotia. .. I do ALOT more reading than posting. . ..

I believe that is SixTango's Method correct? That is the one that I was wanting to try and spawned (pun intended) my earlier question about soaking overnight -

Thanks - 420M


Posted by: 420M Dec 02 02, 03:59 AM GMT
So I have my birdseed finished and cooked now.

The grains do not clump at all in the jars. .however. . . several grains stick to the sides of the glass when I shake the jars around.

This sound about right?

THanks in Advance!!

420<


Posted by: Nanook Dec 02 02, 05:02 PM GMT
Yeah it's not unusual to have some clumps and grains stuck to the glass.


Posted by: Fred Garvin Dec 02 02, 05:26 PM GMT
I've found that if I have some clumps and some kernals sticking to the jar sides, it's a good indication that I've got the moisture content just about right.


Posted by: 420M Dec 03 02, 02:26 AM GMT
Thanks guys. .. but I was a little concerned that my grains DO NOT CLUMP AT ALL in the jars . . .AT ALL.

Anyways - we will see how it goes.

Thanks Again - 420M


Posted by: Mycota Dec 03 02, 03:36 AM GMT
QUOTE (420M @ Dec 03 02, 07:26 AM GMT)
>>Thanks guys. .. but I was a little concerned that my grains DO NOT CLUMP AT ALL in the jars . . .AT ALL.<<


That's the way they are supposed to be, if you did it - right.

What method did you use?

Mycota


Posted by: 420M Dec 05 02, 04:54 PM GMT
SHIT - YOURS of COURSE Mycota!!

Soak Overnight. ..ended up being like 16 hrs cause I had to volunteer at my daughter's school in the AM. .. rinsed and drained - well - as per instructions (( see people - you really CAN learn more from reading than posting and questions!! )) then PC for 90 min and they have been sitting for a week to double check for contams b4 I start - gonna go over there tonight.

Thanks for the tips Mycota!

420M


Posted by: Mycota Dec 05 02, 06:01 PM GMT
QUOTE (420M @ Dec 05 02, 09:54 PM GMT)
>> they have been sitting for a week to double check for contams b4 I start - gonna go over there tonight.<<


If you followed it by the numbers & properly PC'ed them ( &, I assume you did). No need to let them set for a week. They just need to cool to room temp & they are ready to go.

If you are doing stove top PC'ing? After your PC is cool enough to open. Open it, remove the jars (shake if needed) & place them in the oven, on a rack, to cool - overnight. Once they are at room temp. Knock em up via syringe or G2G transfers.

Mycota tongue.gif


Posted by: 420M Dec 05 02, 06:07 PM GMT
Thanks for the tip. . .was also trying a 'new' (for me) tek for filter lids as per another SixTango post. .. so I wanted to let em sit.

Here We Go!!

420M


Posted by: DirtyWOP Dec 06 02, 08:11 AM GMT
QUOTE
...Open while still hot & remove jars...

Watch out if you do that. Opening the pc before it cools all the way will suck air into your jars. As long as your filter material is solid and snug that shouldn't be a problem tho.....



 

Posted by: Propagator Feb 22 03, 07:25 AM GMT
This question is in regards to Mycota's WBS Tek.

I've read in the archives that when using colonized grain to spawn
bulk substrates, it is recommended to the give the grain a shaking
12 to 24 hours before using it to break it up and then let it knit itself back
together.

*note: I'm talking about shaking it after it's 100% colonized and ready
to be used, not shaking it at 20% colonization to speed the colonization
up.

The knitting back together is important because if it isn't
given time to "heal" after the shaking, then contams will be 10 times
more likely to set in (according to Stamets). The shaking is meant to
break the grains up so that the bulk substrate is easily spawned to, of course.

OK, here's my question:

Wild Bird Seed, at 100% colonization, is fused together rock solid.
I suppose if I were to take a phone book out and smack the living
daylights out of the jars, then I may be able to break it up into smaller
pieces, but I remember reading a Mycota post wherein he described
spooning out the WBS into the bulk substrate. Is that accurate?

If I were to spoon out the rock solid WBS into a bed of
pastuerized straw, doesn't seem obvious it would be difficult to distribute
the spoon sized chunks of myc amongst all the pieces of straw, or am I
missing the point? Are spoon sized chunks of colonized WBS a good
size to use as a spawn? It seems obvious that the smaller the chunks are,
the more easily will be to cover each and every piece of straw and
speed up colonization of the straw/reduce contamination.

Anyone have experiece with this? Please respond. Mycota, I know you
have experience spawing fused together WBS to dung compost, how
do you do it? Is the process and different for straw as compared to compost?





Posted by: happygrins Feb 22 03, 09:56 AM GMT
It doesnt get "Rock" solid at all. In fact it breaks apart VERY easily. If you put a sterilized spoon in your jar and stab and twist a few times you'll see how easy it is to break apart. Very little effort.

--happygrins laugh.gif


Posted by: killdannow Feb 22 03, 12:35 PM GMT
I slam my jars on my carpet, it breaks up perfect everytime, and no matter how hard i slam I have nevre had a problem. The reason stamets says to break them and see if they recolonize is so you know that the culture is still pure, the mycelium wont "knit" back together if it doesnt dominate the grain. So your just making sure your not spawning bacteria or mold or some other nasty.


Posted by: Mycota Feb 22 03, 01:31 PM GMT
I believe "Stamets" was refering to shaking autoclave bags, not fully colonized glass quart jars. My foaf's jars knit togather tight & could noy be skaken.

He - simply uses a sterile spoon to break it apart, then mixes it up, into small seed/grain - inside the jar, with the spoon, then dumps it out, into the substrate container & mixes it in - evenly.

You will get a few small clumps - in the mix. No harm, no foul. Just mix them in & you will be fine. Save back about 5% & spread it over the top, evenly. So the surface will colonize a bit faster than the substrate - underneath, to create a colonized contam barrier ASAP.



Mycota (6T)


Posted by: Propagator Feb 22 03, 05:46 PM GMT

Thanks a lot for the replies.

Here's another question:

I know that the optimum spawn to substrate weight is 10 to 20 percent. Right now I don't have the scales to measure the straw and spawn weights. If I were to use a quart jar that is 3/4 full of fully colonized WBS to spawn a straw bed/tub, how much straw should I use. How much does a 3/4 full WBS quart jar of spawn weigh (minus the weight of the jar, duh)?

Is the amount of grain to straw shown in this pic a good estimate?
user posted image
(from myco-tek.com)

Yes

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