TYVEK


Nan's Nook : Archives : Jars : Lids                                       Also see: Injector Lids : Filter Disks
Posted by: Anno                       Homemade filter discs test
Im conducting a test using filters made of Tyvek TM mat cloth.

I prepared 4 birdseed jars, 2 are covered with the polyfill lid like outlined in the Polyfill for Dummies tek, and 2 are covered with squares of Tyvek TM hold down by the rim of the lid.
Im going to inoculate them with Ecuador rye grain spawn tomorrow, incubate at 29C and report on the progress in the following days.

Posted by: XAZIA
excellent idea anno, thanx, i will be interested in the outcome.

Posted by: Jared

Tyvek(r) is formed by a fully integrated process using continuous and very fine fibers of 100 percent high-density polyethylene that are randomly distributed and nondirectional. These fibers are first flash spun, then laid as a web on a moving bed before being bonded together by heat and pressure - without the use of binders, sizers or fillers. By varying both the lay-down speed and the bonding conditions, DuPont technicians can engineer the flashspun sheet to meet market needs, such as soft- and hard-structure Tyvek(r).

^^^taken from Anno's link

Looks very interesting =)

Hmm.. that almost made sense. Go Jared, Go.


Posted by: luvdemshrooms
Construction

One of the most popular and widely known applications of Tyvek(r) is in the construction industry, where it is used to increase air and water resistance, helping to lower heating and cooling costs in buildings and providing better protection against water and moisture intrusion. The unique qualities of Tyvek(r) help stop air flow through wall cavities; help hold out bulk water and wind-driven rain; and allow moisture vapor to escape from inside walls. The result is a more comfortable, energy-efficient building with far fewer chances for damage from degradation effects.

Helps stop air flow?


Medical Packaging

An industry standard for more than 30 years, Tyvek(r) is used in virtually every form of sterile medical packaging. That's because Tyvek(r) delivers an optimum balance of bacteria penetration resistance, tear strength, puncture resistance and clean peel, as well as compatibility with existing and emerging sterilization methods.

Sounds like it doesn't let anything in, maybe including air?


Covers

Because Tyvek(r) is water resistant, yet breathable, it is ideal for car, boat and camper covers. The unique nonwoven structure of Tyvek(r) protects against acid rain and salt spray by holding out more water than cotton, polyester or cotton/polyester covers; however, because it is breathable, it also allows trapped moisture to escape, helping to prevent rot and mildew. What's more, because Tyvek(r) does not absorb water, it is significantly lighter than other covers -- even when wet. Tyvek(r) is a proven shield from the sun, blocking 98 percent of the sun's damaging ultraviolet (UV) rays, and it is specially engineered to keep out abrasive dirt and dust, so finishes are less likely to become dull or stained.

Allows trapped moisture to escape?


Posted by: Anno
I sterilized the jars with the filters on without problems. The filters withstand the 120C of pressure cooking without visible structure change.(according to data HDPE has a melting point of 130C).

There was a difference between the polyfill lid and the Tyvek filter jars as the Tyvek jars vere easyer to shake, leading to the conclusion that more water evaporated through the Tyvek filters than through the polyfill lids, which is reasonable if you take the active area into account, that being much greater with the Tyvek filters.

The jars were inoculated with each 1 heaped teaspoon of rye grain spawn, shaken and put into an incubator at 29C.

After 2 days fresh growth is noticeable both in polyfill filter jars and in Tyvek filter jars. I couldn't tell if the growth is faster in any of them. The jars will be shaken today to distribute the newly colonized kernels and put back into the incubator.


Posted by: MicronMagick
Well from the pics the poly-filled looks to be slightly ahead.

Here is what I'm wordering can you blow threw the poly-filled hole? The reason I asked this is I used to be in construction and when this stuff first hit the market the sale reps would make you try to blow threw the material. You couldn't which is way it protects from the elements. Which really make it more of a lid then a filter IMO.

Now this really should have much of an impact why shakeble grains, because of the free air space. However I think in a PF|MMGG TEK would stall because of the build up. What do you think?

Anyway way to think outside the box!

Posted by: Anno
>can you blow threw the poly-filled hole?
Yes.
You can also blow(or better to say suck) air through Tyvek. The polyfill lid is more permeable per area, but the area of the Tyvek filter is bigger.

Posted by: CLuB99
anno, any info on where to buy it??
there isn't a link "buy it" on the link you provided.

Posted by: Anno
Any store where you can get material for building or renovating your house should have it, its a pretty common and widely used material, sold on rolls of several hundred meters, but at least where I got it, you can buy it by the meter.

After 3.5 days into colonization the jars look like this


Posted by: Trail_Blazer
Anno were the rye grain spawn jars prepared multi-spore or from agar isolate? Just wondering if those four jars all have the same strain in em.

Peace

Posted by: Anno
Isolate. I cloned a mushroom.

6 days after inoculation the jars are colonized.

If you look carefully you will notice, that the upper layer of the Tyvek filter jars has uncolonized, dry kernels on the top of the jar during the excessive gas exchange through the filter.

To counteract this one should make the hole in the lid smaller and thus only partially expose the filter surface.

No contamination problems were observed in jars with either kinds of filters.

All in all the test was a success, proving that "Tyvek house wrap" is suitable for use as an filter in preparing of grain spawn.

 Mycota's WBS Tek : Lids : Jars : Archive Main : Shroom Glossary : Back to the Nook




Posted by: Dell500 May 11 03, 05:08 PM GMT
If using tyvek, and it's placed before metal lid is on, can syringe go through tyvek when innoculating?? Thanks.

Edit: Also, with WBS, should the sunflower seeds be removed or do they add nutes?? (Big pain in the arse to remove because there are so many lol), thanks


Posted by: Dawgboy May 11 03, 06:05 PM GMT
It can go through, but you should seal it afterwards with tape.

The question about sunflower seeds gets asked a bit. Some people say that some of the nutes provided by them are quite useful, but that the myc might have a bit of trouble colonising them (and/or that the thick shell makes sterilising more difficult).

The easy way to get rid of them (if you want to) is to pour the the wbs into lots of water. I believe the sunflower seeds float while the rest sinks. I'd say get rid of them but others might disagree.

regards
dawgboy


Posted by: dcyans May 11 03, 07:29 PM GMT
When I soak my WBS I pick out the floaters and don't worry about the rest wink.gif I've never had a problem bow.gif I like to use a drop of hot glue to seal any innoculation sites wink.gif peace.gif


Posted by: maryxmas May 11 03, 08:26 PM GMT
what i do is rotate the lid a half turn over the tyvek and then innculate and then rotate the lid back a half turn. that way the innoc hole in the tyvek isnt in direct line with the hole in the lid so if anything does fall though it lands on the other side of the tyvek away from the hole.
xmas


Posted by: Samsara May 11 03, 09:03 PM GMT
I have always punctured the tyvek when innoculating and just left the hole without sealing. I have never had any contams at that stage of growth (although I haven't done very many grow either). If you want to be on the safe side, use tape or hot glue like dcyans said. Good luck!


Posted by: mycofile May 12 03, 11:29 AM GMT
You won't get away with not sealing for very long. Well, you might, but you might as well not be using a filter if you are that lucky.

Sunflower seeds are argued often. I used to pick them all out just to be safe. Then I started picking out most of them to be somewhat safe. Then I just left them in and realized they were fine. They do contain a unique nutritional profile which is quite helpful to mycelium. The thick hull may make them a little more difficult to sterilize, but once sterilized, sterile is sterile whether its from a sunflower or a cow.... I suspect that it's the dark color that makes it easier to spot contams on before other grains, not that the contam originates with them, but it's just noticed there first.

They do float when mixed with water, and can be skimmed off or poured off. You'll have to do this many times, stirring as you go to remove them all from a big bag. Even at that you'll have to go through and pick some out by hand if you want all of them out. I say leave them be, and pc for 1.5 hours just to be sure. But, if you rinse your grains (which you should anyway, at some time before pcing) then it's easy enough to pour the majority of them off.


Posted by: Camelot May 12 03, 11:42 PM GMT
I just picked up some WBS..."No Waste Select" (Stokes brand). It has 'sunflower chips'...(just the seed part...no hulls)...along with white millet, hulled millet, cracked corn, peanut pieces and red millet. It was about $4 for a 7.5 lb bag.

1. Is this WBS OK?

2. If so, has anyone considered either using this type or some other type without SF seeds and just adding 'shelled' SF seeds to regain the nutrient value?


Posted by: mycofile May 13 03, 04:57 PM GMT
1. Yes
2. No, the beauty of WBS is it's simplicity. Put it in a pot, soak it over night, rinse, strain, pc. Adding stuff to it takes away from it's simplicity. Also, I see no problems with sf seeds of any form. I think if people think they have problems caused by sf seeds, they have other problems that are being misdiagnosed. If you don't want to use sf seeds, fine, but I wouldn't worry about compensating for any lost nutrition.


Posted by: trinity May 13 03, 05:17 PM GMT
my foaf just put WBS, then tyvek, then a ball of polyfil, then the dome lid, coffee filters, then foil. pc'd for 95 min. they're cooling in the glovebox, palenque liquid innoc. tomarrow.
poly fil because he has no hot glue gun to seal up the hole. hopin for the best


Posted by: dcyans May 13 03, 07:38 PM GMT
QUOTE (mycofile @ May 13 03, 03:57 PM GMT)
1. Yes
2. No, the beauty of WBS is it's simplicity. Put it in a pot, soak it over night, rinse, strain, pc. Adding stuff to it takes away from it's simplicity. Also, I see no problems with sf seeds of any form. I think if people think they have problems caused by sf seeds, they have other problems that are being misdiagnosed. If you don't want to use sf seeds, fine, but I wouldn't worry about compensating for any lost nutrition.


Couldn't agree more mycofile clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif I've seen straight white millet in the pet store i'm sure that would work awesome too wink.gif peace.gif


Posted by: Maineiac May 14 03, 02:15 AM GMT
I tried plain white millet from the natural food store. The mycelium RAVAGED the stuff. Moisture content is fickle though, took a few tries to get it down.

I'm trying to get a hold of some Tyvek but I've only found it in big ass rolls for way too much money. Where do you folks get yours?


Posted by: Bobkat May 14 03, 02:27 AM GMT
QUOTE (Maineiac @ May 14 03, 07:15 AM GMT)
I tried plain white millet from the natural food store. The mycelium RAVAGED the stuff. Moisture content is fickle though, took a few tries to get it down.

I'm trying to get a hold of some Tyvek but I've only found it in big ass rolls for way too much money. Where do you folks get yours?


Mainieac you should try construction sights where some unsuspecting homebuilder is not paying attention or ask him if he can spare you some of the scrap.


Posted by: ace May 14 03, 03:39 AM GMT
I wasn't sure of what you all meant when I heard Tyvek. Now I know. What I've used is this fabric that is like goratex. It's about a 400 count thread nylon with a rubberized backing. It can be PC'd and I've used the same piece 3 times PCing it and poking the hell out of it with those big 18 guage hypo's. The hypo hole just kind of seals back up. No shit. I bought a six inch by three foot length of it for about $4 I think it was at the local fabricworld. I've got to see some of this tyvek now.
edit:can't put a pic up on an edit I guess


Posted by: ace May 14 03, 03:47 AM GMT

This is a pic of the fabric I was describing above.


Posted by: trinity May 14 03, 07:32 AM GMT
i just wanted to say that it is illegal to use TYVEK express mail envelopes from the post office if you are in the USA. repeat, do not use the TYVEK express mail envelopes from the post office. they are perfect for this application, but it is illegal to use them for anything else besides mail. shh.gif tongue.gif biggrin.gif that being said, my friend of a friend of a friend of a friend uses those, for eh, mailing stuff, yeah. they can be PC'd and they are free


Posted by: Twista May 14 03, 10:36 AM GMT
QUOTE (Maineiac @ May 14 03, 03:15 AM GMT)
I'm trying to get a hold of some Tyvek but I've only found it in big ass rolls for way too much money. Where do you folks get yours?


my foaf ran into the same problem. Go to local staples if you have one. They sale 9"x16" envelopes. Around $15 for 100 and you can make at least 8 from one envelope if you cut it right. Tearing this stuff can be a pain and ultimately result in ill-shaped tyvek filters.


Posted by: glasshoppa May 14 03, 11:17 AM GMT
QUOTE (Bobkat @ May 13 03, 11:27 PM GMT)
...try construction sights where some unsuspecting homebuilder is not paying attention...

I'm uncomfortable with your implication here, Bobkat. Remember that you may build a house yourself, some day.

QUOTE
...or ask him if he can spare you some of the scrap.

This is a much more agreeable suggestion. Throughout my whole life I've found that people are usually accomodating when dealt with honestly and straight-up.


Posted by: Dell500 May 14 03, 11:53 AM GMT
I didn't think this would get so many replies lol. Well, I PC'ed some WBS, didn't come out right, looks really burnt. So going to try CC(Cracked COrn) today. Going to use the same tyvek filters too. But ya, a little off topic, but oh well, thanks for all the comments peeps. Peace


Posted by: psilli me May 15 03, 03:24 PM GMT
QUOTE (Maineiac @ May 14 03, 07:15 AM GMT)

I'm trying to get a hold of some Tyvek but I've only found it in big ass rolls for way too much money. Where do you folks get yours?

I will trade Construction grade Tyvek for spore prints. Interested? PM me


Posted by: Smerd May 15 03, 03:33 PM GMT
Someone over at myco supplied this link - http://www.intothewind.com/cgi-bin/detail.cgi?itemnum=402&sql=ks. It's a kite shop - pretty cheap, and it'd last quite a while.



Posted by: Voodoo Jan 30 03, 06:32 PM GMT
Iv got some birdseed incubating right now and it seems like its gotten dry. They have filters over the top and I was wondering if anyone has had a problem with evaporation using them. OK, next question. If I put a filter on my grow chamber would I be able to fan less? I havent done it because I thought that there would have to be something to push air through the filter. Any thoughts?


Posted by: Propagator Jan 30 03, 07:05 PM GMT
How-many-hours-did-you-soak-the-WBS-before-PCing?--Did-you
soak-8-to-12-hours?--


Posted by: Voodoo Jan 30 03, 07:10 PM GMT
The seeds were soaked for 24 hours. Probably a little bit more. Then rinsed well and PC'd. I dont have any foil over them in the incubator, because I didnt think Id need it. Did I screw up?


Posted by: DirtyWOP Jan 30 03, 07:22 PM GMT
Did you use just ring lids and filter discs?
IMO, thats no good....
The best way to rig it...the perfect medium where there is ample air exchange without any moisture loss is a 3/8 in. filtered hole in the jar lid.....whether using polyfil stuffed in there, or a filter disc under a lid....that is the best way to scheme it....

The grommet thing mycota just posted is a great idea....
I just took a trip to the hardware store just for that.....


Posted by: DirtyWOP Jan 30 03, 07:26 PM GMT
If you put a filter on your terrarium by the way....will make you lose your humidity very fast, and you'll need to mist ALL the time, which makes having to fan less moot....

I tried that and even two tiny holes in the bottom of the terraium dried it out quick....


Posted by: Propagator Jan 30 03, 07:55 PM GMT
Here's-what-I-am-doing:

Note:-this-is-experimental

I-fill-quart-jars-nearly-full-of-WBS-(to-the-threads),-then-fill
the-threaded-part-of-the-jar-with-verm-(about-1/2-ito-3/4-inch),-then
a-tyvek-filter-disk,-and-then-a-lid-with-4-holes-(a-la-PF-Tek),
and,-finally,-I-screw-the-ring-on,-and-PC-for-90-mins.

Innoculate-as-though-it-were-a-PF-style-half-pint-(preferably
with-a-sharp-tip-needle-[to-pierce-the-filter-disk-easily])-in
a-glovebox-(ideally,-a-flowhood).

Like-I-mentioned-above,-this-is-experiemental--just
tried-it-this-morning,-so-no-data-about-colonization--yet.

what-do-you-all-think?--are-there-any-potential-problems
that-I-am-not-factoring-in?

please-post-feedback--I-am-minutes-away-from
PCing-a-second-batch-this-way.


Posted by: DirtyWOP Jan 30 03, 08:04 PM GMT
well........
the tyvek will be just about useless with no room for air in the jar
I've found that jars more than 3/4 full contam a lot....
And, without shaking, a quart of substrate will take a LONG time to finish up, and the contams will probably beat it to the finish line....


Posted by: Propagator Jan 30 03, 08:23 PM GMT
Ouch!

-just-read-that-minutes-after-firing-up-the-second
batch-of-6-quarts!


Posted by: Voodoo Jan 30 03, 08:29 PM GMT
They have started to colonise, but the seed is rolling around really loose like its too dry. I have 10 with the filter disks and 14 with polyfill. Hey Wop, congrats on the contest win! I REALLY wanted that one. 20! Man thats a lot to give away. BOXTOP kicks ass! That was you right?


Posted by: Propagator Jan 30 03, 08:30 PM GMT
Since-I-now-have-12-quarts-done-as-described-above,-I'm
thinking-of-ways-to-fix-it:

Once-they-reach-20%-colonized,-I-can-put-each-one
in-a-glovebox-and-extricate-the-top-quarter-of-WBS-and-verm,
then-give-them-a-good-shaking,-and-replace-back-to-the
incubator.

Sound-like-a-plan?

BTW,-voodoo,-sorry-to-piggyback-your-post,-but-I-need
advice-too.-smile.gif


Posted by: Voodoo Jan 30 03, 08:38 PM GMT
Shit, I dont care. We ALL need help. (but I need it more biggrin.gif )


Posted by: Voodoo Jan 31 03, 07:08 PM GMT
I checked on the jars and the ones using polyfill are really slow (but look like they have enough water, and the ones with the micron disks are hauling ass. WTF? So I put some seran wrap over them. Good, bad?


Posted by: Propagator Jan 31 03, 07:39 PM GMT
Note:I-really-don't-know-what-I'm-talking-about,-but-for-what
it's-worth:

Instead-of-saran-wrap,-put-2-alcohol-swabbed-coffee-filters-secured-with-a-rubber-band-over-lid.--The-whole-idea-is-to-allow-air-exchange-and-the-saran-wrap-ain't-going-to-do-it.


Posted by: Subgen1us Jan 31 03, 08:06 PM GMT
If u used grains try not to use the filter discs. it provides to much ventilation causeing grains to easily dry out.

basically wat wop said


Posted by: el.jefe Jan 31 03, 09:26 PM GMT
if they are moving fast...don't mess with them!

 

Posted by: Voodoo Feb 01 03, 12:57 AM GMT
I just put the seran wrap on to stop any more water from getting out. I dont really see what the point of using coffee filters over a micron filter would be. They are WAY more poreous than the micron. All of my jars with the polyfill look just fine so I think Im going to stick with them and ditch the filter the next time. Its a hell of a lot cheaper and almost as easy.


Posted by: Mycota Dec 27 02, 08:54 AM GMT
A while back, while getting a check up. I noticed something.

The light (blue) material that hospital patient gowns are made of is:

Spunbond Polyester. It is a GREAT AIR FILTER MATERIAL.

If you know anyone that works in a hospital, clinic or as an EMT. They might be able to get you a few (wink).

One gown will make lots of JAR FILTERS.

(Sidebar: I know a surgical nurse, she bagged me a case of the suckers)



Mycota

Shroom Glossary