Nan's Nook : Archives : Misc Teks : Non Cubie Shrooms     Also See: MushMush Notes
Posted by: sinsimilla69 Nov 28 02, 03:55 AM GMT
can anybody tell me what sclerotia is and and the difference if any between sclerotia potency and fruit bodied fungus? What would be the advantage of cultivating it and what species it comes from? Any clarification greatly appreciated.

Posted by: Mycota Nov 28 02, 05:05 AM GMT

From  <---- Click Here

Una does the best stones I have ever seen.



Cultivation of fruit bodies and sclerotia on sterilized grass seed


This document gives instructions on how to prepare substrate suitable for the cultivation of:

Psilocybe mexicana (mushrooms and sclerotia)
Psilocybe tampanensis (mushrooms and sclerotia)
Psilocybe cubensis (mushrooms; rye grain is preferred for this species)
Panaeolus subbalteatus (mushrooms)
Preparation of the substrate

The substrate is based on grass seed. The most commonly sold form is rye grass seed (Lolium perenne) but we have also used mixtures of different species with great success. Make sure however that it is not treated with fungicides. If seed has been treated with fungicides it should say so on the packaging. You may have to look around a little bit to get some inexpensive seed (we buy ours from an animal feed store where it is sold as bird feeding).

We use the following formula for 720 ml jars

110 grams grass seed
180 ml water
After the water and seed have been filled into the jars, the lids are put on but NOT screwed tight! The lids MUST remain loose! Then a double layer of tinfoil is crumpled over the lid and top part of the jar. Now the jars are ready for sterilization.

NOTE: Different varieties of grass seed and even batches of the same variety can differ greatly in their ability to absorb water. Too much water results in a slimy clump of seed that cannot be shaken, too little results in substrate that is too dry and produces little or no mushrooms/sclerotia. You should experiment a little with these.

Alternatively you can soak the grass seed overnight in water and then fill the jars with soaked grass seed. This will produce a more homogenous substrate.


The jars should be sterilized in a pressure cooker or autoclave, a normal pot will NOT suffice. First a layer of water is poured into the cooker. The jars are placed in the pressure cooker making sure that the lids are loose! Now sterilize the jars for one hour according to the directions supplied with your pressure cooker. If you are using bigger jars then the sterilization time should be prolonged. (we sterilize 1.5 liter jars and spawn bags always for 2 full hours). Once the cooker is no longer under pressure the jars should be taken out and the grass seed in the jars should be shaken loose to mix the wet and dry kernels. The jars should then be allowed to cool in a clean place. Always check the jars for cracks before shaking! When the jars have cooled to room temperature inoculations can take place. As the jars are cooling down the lids should remain loose or else they will pull a vacuum.


When the jars have cooled down they are ready to be inoculated. Don't be hasty, be patient! If you inoculate the jars while they are still hot the spores or mycelium might get killed. You can use a spore syringe, mycelium syringe, agar squares or whatever kind of inoculants you want. The most important thing to remember is to WORK CLEAN! When using syringes always flame the needle before commencing inoculations. When using agar squares always flame the scalpel! Be careful! ALCOHOL AND SPRAY LYSOL ARE HIGHLY FLAMMABLE!!!

Even a simple hood made of a cardboard box prevents prevent drafts and subsequently contamination. Do not expose the sterilized grain to air longer then absolutely necessary. Open the lids of the jars just a crack and work swiftly. After inoculation the lids of the jars are closed and the jars are shaken. Then the lid is loosened again so the mycelium will be able to breathe.


After inoculation the jars are put in a clean and draft free location. We normally put our jars at room temperature (20C) or slightly higher. When mycelium starts to grow in only a few spots we shake the jars to redistribute the colonized kernels. This speeds up colonization dramatically. Depending on the temperature, the species and the method of inoculation the grass seed can be completely colonized in 5-20 days.

When jars are incubated too long or at too high a temperature the mycelium will excrete yellowish metabolites. This situation is not good, these seed in these jars should be cased as soon as possible.

Casing (for the cultivation of mushrooms)

When the grass seed in the jars is completely colonized it needs to be cased. For this purpose we use 1-litre disposable plastic trays. The colonized grass seed of one jar is shaken loose are poured into a tray. If there are lumps within the seed these can be broken up with the clean rim of the jar. The surface of the grain is leveled evenly. Using a big spoon and a fork the grain is now covered with a thin layer (1.5-2.0 cm) of casing soil. We always try to keep the casing surface even while at the same time keeping it rough (with small valleys and hills). The cased tray is then covered with tin foil and put in a clean location (20-25C). Within a few days you will notice the mycelium growing through the casing soil. Depending on the strain (some strains fruit earlier and easier then others) the casings are now ready to be exposed to air and light to start the fruiting cycle.

Recipe and Preparation of the casing soil

We use the following recipe:

10 parts of peat
5 parts of vermiculite
2 parts of limestone (Marl)

The ingredients are mixed in dry form and while stirring water is added. The amount of water of course depends on the moisture content of the peat. The object is to get as much water in the casing soil as possible without turning it into mud. If the casing gets too wet just add a little more dry ingredients. This casing soil is then filled into oven bags (made of nylon), autoclave bags (PP) or jars and these are sterilized for one hour in the pressure cooker. When the soil has cooled down to room temperature it's ready to use.

We know that some authors advise against sterilization of casing soil because it would kill all the beneficial organisms. We however have had only bad experiences with untreated or pasteurized casing soils. We just tell what works best for us!


Some cultivators use very elaborate set-ups with humidifiers, cool-mist devices and such. We have never found this necessary. The fruiting containers that we use consist of simple clear plastic bins that are covered with polyethylene sheeting. These bins are stackable and thus very space efficient. For air exchange some hole are melted in the sides of the bins. These holes can be covered with mesh to keep out flies. Basically, five cased trays are put in one bin and the evaporation from the casing surface is enough to maintain the proper moisture inside the bin. The holes provide some air exchange. We always cold-shock the harder-to-fruit strains (we put them in the fridge for one night before putting them in the bins). For easy fruiting strains (i.e. Ecuador cubensis) this is not necessary. Psilocybe mexicana, Psilocybe tampanensis and Panaeolus subbalteatus do not benefit from such a treatment. The casings are misted each day and the casing is never allowed to dry out. Directly after a flush is picked watering is increased because the maturing mushrooms pull a lot of moisture from the casing soil. It's very difficult to give explicit directions on a watering regime. You will have to develop a 'feeling' for it. Depending on the strain the first pinheads will appear 6-15 days after putting the casings in the bins. The mushrooms will mature in 5-7 days after which they can be picked. We normally let the casings produce 3 flushes, but they may (when watered properly) produce 5 or even 6 flushes. Psilocybe mexicana usually produces one big flush and a small second flush. Other mentioned species produce more constant.

Keep the surface of the casing as clean as possible by removing dead pinheads (aborts) as these can lead to moulds showing up on the casing surface.


The mycelium of Psilocybe tampanensis and Psilocybe mexicana can produce sclerotia while still in the jar. Colonized grass seed need not be cased for this to happen. In our experience (with tampanensis) sclerotia will continue to enlarge until 4 months after inoculation. The jars should be put in a clean (preferably dark) location. Sclerotia of these species also form in the casing layer of cased trays.

Posted by: ShroomVator Nov 28 02, 05:10 PM GMT
Your presence is really appreciated, Mycota.

Glad to have you around.


Posted by: shroomsrock Nov 28 02, 08:14 PM GMT
Looks yummy! Is the tampanensis any harder to grow than, say, PF calssics? I've yet to try any grain teks, but I'm thinking about doing one soon.

Posted by: Mycota Nov 28 02, 08:44 PM GMT
All in all, once you have learned the procedures, it is as simple, if not simpler than PF classic sytle cakes. Excepting, a pressure cooker is required to effectivly sterilize seed/grain.

Moreover, B/E is based on the amount of nutrients in a growing medium.

The source of nutrients in a PF style cake is a small amount of BRF. The source of nutrients in any bulk seed/grain is multiplied many times over BRF.
When seed/grains are spawned into bulk substrates, such as compost, horse or cow manure, the nutrient base increases that much more.

Thus, B/E increases, to the degree it is not difficult to realize 1000 to 2500 gram gross weight wet harvests, during several flushes off a bulk substrate, spawned with a seed/grain.

That is from one bulk substrate container. PF sytle cakes do not compare.


Here is the article I promised slp/fmrc..............


Taken from "THE GOLDEN DOORKNOB", By Stephen L. Peele. Copyrighted Material. Permission is granted for free and academic use duplication as long as entire article is used. Any sale or commercial use is violation of International Copyright. Published by the Florida Mycology Research Center (FMRC), POB 18105, Pensacola, FL 32523 USA [email protected].

"Also known as "Magic Stones", "Comote", "Comotillos", "Rock Of Ages", and the "Philosopher's Stone".

Some species of mushrooms have the ability to produce sclerotia. Most mushrooms and other fungi do not have this ability. Several of the psychoactive species of mushrooms produce sclerotia. Psilocybe mexicana and Psilocybe tampanensis are two examples. The sclerotia is actually an alternative expression of the mushroom to insure the continuation of the species. This modification is also directly associated with the survival of the mushroom during environmental extremes. High temperatures, desiccaction, or nutrient deprivation, cause these types of mushrooms to form this resistant structure. The sclerotia is formed by the cells branching profusely, and then develop into a thick outer layer to protect the inside against the extremes of the current environment. The sclerotia contains stored nutrients, and can survive under unfavorable conditions for many years.

Sclerotia be observed many times when just maintaining the live culture. They can appear on both agars and grains. They are solid masses and are like walnuts without the hard shell.

Out in the wild, the sclerotia grows under the ground and cannot be seen unless dug up. And even then, it takes a trained eye to know what to look for. The Zapotec and Mazatec tribes in Mexico use Psilocybe mexicana as a sacred mushroom. They also have used the sclerotia produced by this species for many years. The sacred secret of the sclerotia was more heavily guarded than the mushrooms ever were. When found, the finder thought surely he was being looked upon favorable by the Gods. These Indians have always been very careful about who they passed this secret to. First, to find the sclerotia, you have to find the sacred mushroom that produces them. When the mushroom is found, you know that the vegetative mycelium is in the ground underneath. This will be where the sclerotia is. Take a knife or small trowel, and dig up all around the area where the mushroom was found. A two foot circle, 6 - 8 inches deep, should cover the area. If you see the mycelium spreading out further, continue digging in it's direction. Concentrate your search in and around the off white colored mycelium. It will look "threadlike and cottonlike". The sclerotia produced by Psilocybe mexicana can average about 1 inch long, and be of irregular shape, sometimes even flat. Smaller stones are also found, so it is important to carefully search. These are chocolate brown in color, and covered with a soft white fuzz, mycelium. When broken into, the inside flesh is a lighter brown, and it will shortly change color to blue. They are a little bitter tasting, but much better than the mushroom. Eating an uncooked chestnut tastes and feels pretty much the same." slp/fmrc

Posted by: PhishinPhree Dec 10 02, 03:17 AM GMT
Grass seed is way overpriced! is ther anywhere to get cheap, grass seed with no additives?

These stones sound like the way to go. not as pretty as mushies but no misting, dunking or casing and less contams.

I almost forgot.. will birdseed work as well? I'm having great success w/ qts of birdseed and the stuff i get is $5/25lbs

Edited cause I'm a stoner

Posted by: DirtyWOP Dec 10 02, 10:20 AM GMT
huh....I was under the impression rye grass seed was cheap stuff. I guess I'm wrong. Try Ace Hardware. They got fat sacks cheap I think.

Yes, birdseed will work fine, I would use the white millet only. I saw a post saying it was more "harvestable" grown on millet, maybe easier to clean off or something. But I can't imagine that is any cheaper than grass seed...

Posted by: Mycota Dec 10 02, 11:58 AM GMT
Psilocybe mexicana & Psilocybe tampanensis is about the best stone (sclerotia) growing strains. Rye grass seed (Lolium perenne) is about the best substrate available.

The best method is to grow stones in quart, half gallon jars and/or any size filter patch autoclave bag.

You can find big (relatively inexpensive) bags of rye grass seed @ Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware, True Value Hardware, or at any of the many Wal - K - mart type chain stores that have a lawn & garden sections.

Just FYI, stones take about 3 to 4 months to get big & fat. After that long, they do not increase in size -- much.

The one advantage to growing stones IS: They are not subject to contamination by open exposure to air, as are casings. Moreover, mushrooms contain about 90% water, whereas stones contain about 70% water. In other words, you net more dry weight from stones, than you do shrooms.

When harvested, they have a consistency - about like fresh walnut meat.

Growing stones is not for impatient folks. Just knock up a few jars or bags, then store them away in a warm dark place & check on them about once a month. Harvest after 3 or 4 months & fan dry.

Mycota wink.gif

Posted by: Millet Dec 10 02, 01:59 PM GMT
Cheap seed can be found here.....

Posted by: HapplyDeranged Dec 10 02, 02:23 PM GMT
anyone have a potency rateing/doseing for the stones??

Posted by: Bob Roberts Dec 10 02, 07:40 PM GMT
Annual rye grass (Lolium multiflorum) is said to have more nutrition than the perennial rye (Lolium perenne).

Sclerotia Tek?

Posted by: Smerd Feb 10 03, 08:54 PM GMT
I haven't yet read a tek for sclerotia - P. Mexicana - that would really work for me. I wonder, could you use WBS in quart jars PC'ed w/a polyfill-holed lid? I know rye is favored, but I think WBS is much cheaper, and the P. Mex syringe is kinda expensive.

Posted by: Zoom Feb 11 03, 12:02 AM GMT
I used rye grass seed. A lot smaller
and shakes easily. Not to mention,
that the myc really loves it. It will
go thru it faster than a crackhead
goes thru lighters. Costs like $2.95
around here. wink.gif

Posted by: sinoptik Feb 11 03, 12:25 AM GMT
You could use wbs but from most of what I've heard, rye seed is preferred for optimal growth. A friend of mine is trying out the rye soon so I'll let you know how that goes.

Posted by: Millet Feb 12 03, 01:04 AM GMT
Neither of the grains you mention supports strong sclerotia growth.

Your best bet is whole rice or rye grass seed.

Posted by: eatyualive Feb 12 03, 02:05 AM GMT
go to they are the pro's on sclerotia for p. mexicana species. if you can't figure it out i am sure workman can help you on any problems you face. he even has a journal on this site. maybe you can pm him. personally i have used perennial rye grass seed and produced moderate amounts of sclerotia for the p.mexicana strain of mushrooms but i would suggest asking the pro.

Posted by: Fungusmaximus Jan 23 03, 10:42 PM GMT
I got 5lbs of some rye seed, but thats not all thats in it.
Im using it for Jalisco.

It reads:

pure seed germination origin

69.86% annual ryegrass 90% oregon
19.51% barcrown creeping red fescue 85% oregon
09.93% perennial ryegrass 85% or/nz
00.59% inert matter
00.11% weed seed

noxious weed seed per pound none found

Is this shit ok?
How do I prepare it?


Posted by: DirtyWOP Jan 23 03, 11:16 PM GMT
I THINK any grass seed will do. Or any seed with a low fat content for that matter......
I figure the best way to prepare the seed would be to soak, as with any always swells them to their maximum water holding capacity - which is always optimum.

Otherwise there is a formula in the shroomery FAQ, I think....
sorry I can't be more of a help

Posted by: Millet Jan 23 03, 11:55 PM GMT
2 parts grass seed:1 part water.

for quarts 1 cup seed:half cup water.

P cook 75 minutes at 15 psi.


Good luck!

Posted by: Fungusmaximus Jan 24 03, 02:25 PM GMT
Thanks Dwop , Millet. smile.gif

Still More? : Shroom Glossary