Nan's Nook : Archives : Misc Teks : Grain Teks : Grain Discussions
Posted by: AmazonMatt Jul 27 03, 06:38 PM GMT
Hi I am planning on growing some Amazons I was just looking for a little advice as this will be my first try at growing I have been reading the forums and I've read the Mushroom cultivator. Can anyone recommend substrates and casing for this strain I will be spawning them on rye grain. any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Posted by: psilli me Jul 27 03, 09:00 PM GMT
If you have decided to use rye then I would say master it first. Some people have trouble with wet spot bacteria especially on rye grain. I chose to switch to Wild Bird Seed (WBS) because it was easier to prep. with less contams. My casing of choice is coir coco fiber since I can get it year round at the pet store (bed-a-beast) it does sometimes need some Ph adjusting but other than that I find it to work great.

My $0.02 is get the grain thing down to a science and then move on to bulk substrates.

EDIT: I think the method for avoiding wet spot with rye it to soak for 48 then PC for [email protected], or at least it was the only thing that even came close to working for me.

Posted by: AmazonMatt Jul 27 03, 09:16 PM GMT
Will any wild bird seed work? Will I have to prepare the jars of bird seed in the pressure cooker just like the grain? huh.gif

Posted by: psilli me Jul 27 03, 09:31 PM GMT
QUOTE (AmazonMatt @ Jul 28 03, 02:16 AM GMT)
Will any wild bird seed work? Will I have to prepare the jars of bird seed in the pressure cooker just like the grain? huh.gif

in short yes and yes ...

here are some threads to read.

I use Morning Song brand birdseed from wal-mart (50lbs bags for $10) has always worked well for me.

Posted by: AmazonMatt Jul 28 03, 06:59 PM GMT
I have bought some manure humus from wal-mart and I was reading that it will pack too much for a substrate will adding perlite help that? I read to use straw but I dunno where to get it around here. What should I try? What is a good substrate to case on that can be found easily?

Posted by: psilli me Jul 28 03, 07:13 PM GMT
until you have experience I would suggest staying with grain. most people start out with BRF cakes or something similar then move up to whole grains the on to bulk subs. don't get ahead of yourself. I did when I was starting and it just about ruined the whole thing.

before you go out buying up all kinds a stuff; focus on getting a pint or quart jar(s) of grain fully colonized without any contamination. Then we will talk about casing and fruiting it. I would suggest not even thinking about bulk subs for now. make sterile TekNeek and 100% colonization your #1 goal.

I'm not trying to sound harsh or bitter but I've been in your same shoes (as I'm sure many of us have) and I know first hand how outta control things can become. If you listen to the nookers and take things one step at a time you will have more fun learn alot and come to love the hobby.

Posted by: hindushroom Jul 28 03, 07:17 PM GMT
I'm just start'in out myself and i totaly agree.

Well said psilli. smile.gif

Posted by: rooster Jul 28 03, 08:44 PM GMT
yup well said psilly. I'm very glad I started with mycology the easy way. PF/Hongus tek. Once you know how to take care of it, what it likes, ect., ect., then you can play around with bigger projects. The pros teach it like they do for a reason. They don't want you to screw it up.

Posted by: FrierTuck Jul 28 03, 09:18 PM GMT
i have to join the chorus here and agree that you should start simple, like with brown rice flour cakes. i just started (first jar innoculated about 7 weeks ago) and it has been trial and frustration enough just to get the first fruits! laugh.gif my first injections were careless and... well, you learn as you go, and in this hobby you learn the hard way more often than not. wink.gif

go to the grocery store and spend $15 on 24 little 1/2 pint canning jars, then exercise the classis PF Tek with brown rice flour and vermiculite. do all 24 jars and if you have a high success rate, like only 6 jars lost to contams (which is good for a begginner), just fruit all of em, or put the "extra" in the fridge...

well, just don't shoot for the stars before you can ride a bicycle wink.gif . i went with the advice from the pros and look at what i got after 5 and 1/2 weeks of patience...

good luck, and keep us posted smile.gif

Posted by: AmazonMatt Jul 28 03, 09:46 PM GMT
could any of you recommend a good tek for using the brf cakes from start to finish? I didnt know that the cakes were simple I thought it was all a matter of opinion for which method to use( I hope that is a common newb mistake:) huh.gif

Posted by: rooster Jul 28 03, 10:13 PM GMT
yeah with grains you get contams easy, especially wet spot bacteria.

Original PF TEK

The Hongus Tek

thats how I learned. grain teks and straw teks come after you get that down. You could skip a step and go straight to grains as you suggested in the beginning of the thread, but higher chances of contams for a beginner...(I hate the word newbie)

The Archives are a great source of info. I'm so glad I was taught the way I was... wub.gif

Posted by: Fungusmaximus Jul 28 03, 10:48 PM GMT
A little secret for you first time grain users.
Ive done more than my fair share of grain teks, and still to this day have trouble getting it perfect everytime.
Wet spot is a bitch and will get you everytime if your grain is too wet.
Mycota's tek is a good one but it doesnt work for me 100% of the time.
This is what I have evolved into using, I have had the best results with and the least contams. Not to mention the grain moisture is perfect so the myc colonizes it very rapidly and uniform.

Ok first get a big ass pot, stock pots work great.
Fill it 1/2 full with your wbs.
Now fill the pot 2/3 full with tap water.
Bring to a rolling boil with no lid.
Once rolling bring her down to a simmer and let it do so till all the grain has expanded and you cant see any water. Now the grain is real sticky and you have allowed the seed hulls to burst open.drain any water that is in the bottom of the pot.
Add about 10 drops of JET DRY and fill the pot again, and bring to a boil.
Now the grains will fully absorb their limit of water and that sticky goo has mixed with the water. The grains should now be expanded enough to have filled the whole pot.

Take your Prepared Grain and strain the cooked grains. The jet dry helps the grain dry quickly and throughly, as well as removes the goo( starches etc) from the exterior parts of the grain.

Now for light speed spawn, when I need it in a hurry.
I fill 1/2 pints and 4 oz jars to the rim full of the cooked grains.
place tyvek/ polyfil/ lid on and screw it on tight as hell.
PC for 30 -45 min and inoculate.
Ive seen 4 oz jars colonize as quick as 5 days when liquid cultre is used or even better a g2g. 1/2 pints in 7 days. wink.gif NO SHAKING it will stall the jars, besides that you shouldnt have any room to shake em wink.gif

Happy spawning


Posted by: AmazonMatt Jul 29 03, 02:27 PM GMT
Is the hardest part of using grain , getting the jars to spawn without contams? Why is the cake method easier? huh.gif

Posted by: rooster Jul 29 03, 02:50 PM GMT
getting the moisture right -is easier for a beginner with PF tek, and less chance of contams. Grain likes to contam or dry out easily. You gotta get your sterile tek down.
but when you have a teacher like might not screw it up.
maybe try some of both dude, grain is way better with Liquid Culture

 well, everything is better with Liquid Culture
good luck to you bro

Posted by: psilli me Jul 29 03, 03:45 PM GMT
I have a problem getting liquid culture to not contam.

and if it does then I have to use it up before it over colonizes and dies.

it's very usefull if you can do it right.

Posted by: AmazonMatt Jul 29 03, 04:53 PM GMT
Well I have already bought quart jars and everything I need to do the grain method so I am going to take my chances. I will have my magic juice in the morning and I will innoculate by afternoon. I hope something good will happen if not I will try the other method. I will keep you all informed on how things are going. Wish me all the best! wink.gif

Posted by: FrierTuck Jul 29 03, 10:48 PM GMT
good luck, and welcome to the greatest hobby on earth... no, in the universe! biggrin.gif wub.gif


Posted by: Nanook Jul 30 03, 12:22 AM GMT
Not a bad bunch of hobbiests either wink.gif

Posted by: AmazonMatt Jul 30 03, 05:42 PM GMT
Ok the deed is done! 5 jars rye and 7 WBS. They didnt look overly wet after PCing. I soaked the rye and WBS for 12 hours drain for about 3 hours. I couldn't squeeze any water out of them but if I pinched a piece of either open I could tell the were soaked all the way through. How can I tell if any of the jars are too wet? Is it too soon to tell or is there a tell tale sign? Hopefully things go as planned I guess I'll know soon enough. How long is too long for the jars to colonate?

Posted by: Nanook Jul 30 03, 06:05 PM GMT
1) If they do not look wet, they are not too wet.
2) Do they look wet? See water glistening? Water on the bottom? Water on the glass? If the jars are dry, with no surface water, they are not too wet.
3) So do I smile.gif
4) Depends on Temperature & Inoculation Volume

Posted by: AmazonMatt Jul 30 03, 06:38 PM GMT
there are a few that I can see water in no pools of water just an some of the seed not overly wet is any sign of water a bad sign?

Posted by: Nanook Jul 30 03, 07:26 PM GMT
The surface of the grain should not have a film of water... No surface water on the grain or I would not bother to shoot the jar. Inoculating the jar with 4+ cc of liquid inoculum is going to tip the scale on a wet jar and the chances, especially with spores, will be very high that wet spot will start and spores will not. Spores take 5 days to grab ahold of an inoculation site, and conditions in the jar have to be nearly perfect, and absolutely sterile, in order to get a good germination. At incubation temps, contams fire up quicker, or just as quick, as spore germinations.

Grain jars need to be a tad dry if you use liquid inoculum, and nailing the tek can be as tricky as working from a huge bag of grain because preps need to be adjusted from grain crop to grain crop as variables such as age of the grain and moisture content affect getting a controlled, repeatable, perfect culture.

In fact it's so tricky I adjust mine manually. I cook the grain completely on the stove top. Then I adjust the moisture content in the fully cooked grain by mixing in dry, oven sterilized, worm castings while fluffing and separating the cooked grain (I dump it into a cooler and fluff, sifting in dry castings)... Once the mix is prepared, I load jars to the neck, cap with polyfil lids, and pc for 90 mins.

I shoot these jars with about 10cc of Karo, a big shot that runs the glass top to bottom round the entire sidewall of the jar takes about 7cc's, and I finish the injection with 2-3 cc's straight down the center of the substrate mass. The grain is a little dry, the worm castings on the surface of the grain are very dry... The inoculum runs the jar, but within a few hours it is absorbed and the final moisture content is perfect wink.gif

Shooting Karo, incubating at 86*F, growth is seen in the jars in 24 hours and jars are done (quarts) in 4 -11 days. No shaking with this tek. Like PF jars, a miss in the moisture content, or incubation problem can have a jar stall up... Catch em early and flipping the jar is usually enough to see stragglers catch up with the siblings.

Posted by: AmazonMatt Jul 31 03, 08:13 PM GMT
Ok any sign of moisture in all of the jars is gone. I hope that is a good sign. Is there a problem if the temp that they are in fluctuates between 79 and 86 degrees F?

Posted by: rooster Jul 31 03, 09:01 PM GMT
it would be good to keep em at 82-86.
it might slow them down a bit going down to 79, but not much

Posted by: Nanook Jul 31 03, 09:14 PM GMT
You can gain up to 1.5+ days in spore germination times by nailing a range between 84 - 86*F

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