|Posted by: glasshoppa Nov 23 02, 03:57 PM GMT|
| Brethren, I need your help. And a group hug wouldn't hurt, either, I'm discouraged.
I inoculated ten jars with Hawaiian spores on Sunday. They have been kept at 80*, the highest temp I can currently manage with my setup. As of today, (Saturday, 6 days later) there is still no germination. This is my fourth attempt which has resulted in non-germination. In each case there has been no visible sign of contamination, yet no growth. I must be doing something wrong, but I don't know what. The PFC's I inoculated the day before have germinated.
It's just not possible that the spores I've used were bad. It's frustrating, because I feel like I can't learn from mistakes if I don't know what I've done wrong.
|Posted by: czen Nov 23 02, 04:10 PM GMT|
|It sounds to me like the spores. It seems you should of had something grow with 4 attempts and you say you've successfully got PFCs going. Could you try making a dextrose or honey jar to test them?|
|Posted by: glasshoppa Nov 23 02, 04:21 PM GMT|
|Three of those four attempts were with commercially purchased syringes, one was with a syringe I made myself. Seems like the chances of getting that many duds is extremely remote. Don't you think? I guess I'll do the honey jar thing from now on.|
|Posted by: Nanook Nov 23 02, 06:28 PM GMT|
| How are you
sterilizing your jars?
|Posted by: czen Nov 23 02, 11:46 PM GMT|
Yes, probably not the syringes in this case.
|Posted by: Iggy Nov 24 02, 12:05 AM GMT|
|Did you remove the tape from the holes in your lids? The cakes need to breath to colonize properly. I had the same thing happen to me for this very reason. The vermiculite barrier protects from contams. Before I had always thought you removed the tape at 50-75% but found it best to do so after inocculation. I had some jars that had never germinated and had been left sitting for a month. I came back and pulled the tape off and they colonized 100% within 3 weeks|
|Posted by: ShroomVator Nov 24 02, 08:39 AM GMT|
|Did you wait long enough after PCing to knock them up, glasshoppa? Until they completely cooled down the next day?|
|Posted by: tron Nov 24 02, 10:50 AM GMT|
|i'd give it a few more days ,cause ya never know. i've hade jars not germinate until the 2nd week. i really hope that you let those jars cool down before you enoculated them man.that would be a tuff one to swollow.also were the syringes exposed to extreme heat at any time(sitting in a hot ass mailbox).|
|Posted by: plinkerdink420 Nov 24 02, 12:22 PM GMT|
|maybe the spores just aren't getting warm enough to germinate.... i could definitely be wrong, as alot of information kinda bleeds together in my brain... but i thought the spores had to reach 85 degrees to germinate.... if that's not the case... i'd say try the liquid culture route...|
|Posted by: glasshoppa Nov 24 02, 12:47 PM GMT|
| >>How are you sterlizing your jars?
In a big black enamel canning pot with a rack. I put some towels and a ten pound weight on top and boil them for an hour.
The tape is still on the lids; I thought the deal was to remove it only if colonization was stalled.
>>Did you wait long enough after PCing to knock them up, glasshoppa? Until they completely cooled down the next day?
Yes, I let the whole pot cool down for 24 hours, with the lid still on.
>>i'd give it a few more days ,cause ya never know. i've hade jars not germinate until the 2nd week.
Interesting. What is the longest time you guys ever waited between inoculation and germination? What is the longest time you'd wait before you gave up, and tossed the jars?
|Posted by: ShroomVator Nov 24 02, 02:24 PM GMT|
| I have some jars from 4 weeks ago that still didnt start until 5 days ago - now one is half done...
Do you put foil on the lids tightly when sterilizing?
|Posted by: Nanook Nov 24 02, 02:48 PM GMT|
| It always seems to me that if you wait too long and germination does occur somewhere, the jars are still weak. No more than 3 weeks, really should not keep anything that does not fire up in two unless you have a good reason.
You can try a Karo jar test the Hawaiian spores. If the Karo fires up, you have plenty of inoculum to shoot your next batch.
But I bet if you warmed your jars up from 80*F to 86*F they would show visible germination in 24 hours if you did everything by the book.
|Posted by: glasshoppa Nov 24 02, 02:51 PM GMT|
| Thanks for the info, guys. I'll move my incubator closer to my room heater, (inconvenient, but damn it all, I'm growing mushrooms,) and see if I can bump the temps up. I'll keep ya posted.
|Posted by: Toad Nov 24 02, 05:36 PM GMT|
| The only questionable procedure I see may be in the amount of time you boiled. This may have dried out your jars. I have experienced this many times. I was PC'ing my PF style jars along with my grain and straw jars for an hour. This made for a very dry substrate, I've cut my times back to 20 min on PF style and have had better results.
Or the other has happened and too much water is in the substrate, max fruiting formula has done this to me more often than not. I don't use it.
The tape over the holes effects this also.
So basically I didn't answer anything, but gave you something to think about.
Until the jars show green or start to stink, there's still hope.
|Posted by: BoxedFarts Nov 24 02, 09:11 PM GMT|
| <Big bear hug for Glasshoppa>
Wait it out, I have a feeling they're just itchin' to colonize
|Posted by: OneDiaDem Nov 25 02, 03:41 AM GMT|
|Huggs for You hon. I'd go with a karo tek. Good luck!|