Casing material pH

The Nook : Archives : Casings

Posted by: Mycota Nov 26 02, 02:27 AM GMT
Casing material pH & why it is important.

"pH", is a measure to describe the acidity of a medium. pH 7 is neutral; higher means alkaline, lower acidic.

Peat is a major constituent of preferred casing mixes. The pH of peat is variable, dependent on the source it came from. Meaning, the pH of peat differs from various sources.

The preferred pH range of a casing mixture is 6.5 to 8. 7.5 is optimal. Peat is acidic. Consequently, to achieve an optimal pH range of a casing mix, the pH of the casing mixture must be adjusted accordingly (within the range of 6.5 to 8).

The pH of the casing must be within certain limits to support strong mycelial growth. An overly acidic or alkaline casing mixture will depress mycelial growth and supports unwanted competitors.

It is generally easier to make casing materials more alkaline (i.e., increasing the pH) than it is to make them more acid (i.e., reducing the pH).

A movement of 0.5 is easy but, because the pH scale is logarithmic, a movement on the order of, 2.0 points becomes more difficult because there is a factor of 10x between each full point, so pH 5.0 is actually 100 times more acid than pH 7.0.

There are several common types of lime available for use, though care should be exercised with all of the products. Lime is caustic and a skin and eye irritant and can be dangerous if misused. If you choose to use such products, carefully read and follow all manufacturer directions exactly. The major types of lime products include:

Hydrated Lime: fast acting, but not long lasting. It is very effective to produce a fast change in pH level. It is also the "strongest" form of lime generally available, and you must follow all manufacturer precautions, since your skin and eyes can be easily irritated or burned if the product is misused.

Ground Limestone: a naturally occurring type of limestone that has been ground to a fine powder. How quickly it will act to modify pH and how long it will persist depends on how finely it was ground.

Generally, ground limestone is weaker than hydrated lime, needing about 30% more to raise the pH by the same amount. It has the advantage, however, of usually being significantly cheaper than the hydrated lime, and usually works more slowly and lasts much longer.

Mixed Lime: usually sold under a brand name. Most brands contain a variety of particle sizes to provide some immediate benefits, as well as a longer persistence. (this is often referred to as "time released" lime).

pH gradually falls to less than optimal by the end of cropping due to acids secreted by the mushroom mycelium. Consequently, a long lasting buffering agent is preferable.

If you wish to achieve optimal results, when adjusting pH? It is highly advisable to use litmus strips (with color chart), or acquire a pH test probe (available at most garden supply stores, under $20) to accurately test, and adjust the pH of your casing mix, prior to application.

Doing all other cultivation steps properly. Then, applying a casing mixture outside the proper pH range, most often creates poor cropping results.

Mycota

Posted by: Nanook Nov 26 02, 02:31 AM GMT
Good Tek Posts

The Casing Layer

Lime

Pickling Lime is Calcium Oxide, not Calcium Carbonate... It's much stronger, shorter acting, corrosive... Too much of it burns shrooms.


Posted by: 420M Nov 26 02, 03:29 AM GMT
How would you test the PH with strips. . .would you simply wet a small tablespoon of the casing mix with water then test?

That is what I would assume - just wanted to double check - any suggestions on finding good peat?

Thanks in Advance,

420M

Posted by: Mycota Nov 26 02, 04:26 AM GMT
QUOTE (420M @ Nov 26 02, 08:29 AM GMT)
How would you test the PH with strips. . .would you simply wet a small tablespoon of the casing mix with water then test?

That is what I would assume - just wanted to double check - any suggestions on finding good peat?

Thanks in Advance,

420M

You hydrate the mix to the desired moisture content with water. Once hydrated, push a strip into it & give it a few seconds to change color. Then check the strip against the color chart. Then, adjust with the buffer, a little at a time. Test, adjust, test...... until you get it as close to 7.5 as possible.

A ph probe tester & moisture meter combo can be had at walmart, kmart, home/depot or lowes for between $8 and $20. They require no battery & last for years.

Mycota


Posted by: Nanook Nov 26 02, 04:43 AM GMT
You can shoot just over 7.5 even... The shrooms don't grow real well into casings at 8.0+ tongue.gif But there are never any contams !!!

Posted by: 420M Nov 26 02, 10:44 AM GMT
Cool. . .so I could just use some water and my trusty $250 PH TDS tester for my hydro to check the PH

Thanks for the info!!

420M

Posted by: Bob Roberts Nov 26 02, 02:41 PM GMT
I'm definitely not down with hydrated lime. Neither are organic gardeners and you can't use it except as a foliar spray if you want to be ceritfied organic.

All lime makes ammonia volatile, but hydrated lime does especially. Not worth the risk for me, nor do I want to consume anything that has possibly taken something up that could burn me or my insides. But that's just my view.

When you buy your lime (you should also be buying gypsum too) make sure it has a greater percentage (60%=fine) passing through a 60 mesh screen. This is the most important for our short-term needs. Anything that doesn't pass through a 10 mesh is useless.

If you are getting serious about liming, you should really consider buying a higher quality pH tester. Strips can be "stained" by the peat moss and give an off reading. If you can get it around 6.5 but below 8.0, you're on the right track.

Just my two cents.

Posted by: Mycota Nov 26 02, 05:01 PM GMT

For those that are serious, this is about the best pH & moisture meter out there, for the money. Stamets even recomends & sells them from his Perfecti Fungi site.

http://userweb.cybernex.net/kelway/hb2.html

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cspoutdoors/noname5.html

Mycota

Posted by: Fungusmaximus Nov 26 02, 09:43 PM GMT
Edited for seriousness. smirk.gif

Posted by: Mycota Nov 27 02, 02:14 AM GMT
Nine EQ http://www.shroomery.org/forums/files/112402-11/79648-200gram.jpg over 125 gram single shroom is getting serious. But, it's all fun & games, anyway. Mycota

(sidebar -- how do you post a pic on this forum?)

Posted by: Nanook Nov 27 02, 02:23 AM GMT
Apparently Shroomery is not allowing you to link. Copy the picture to your local machine, then upload it here with the browse button.

Do you want to ditch your first account keep the new one?

(I like it better and will certainly give it status based on your resume)


Posted by: Mycota Nov 27 02, 02:54 AM GMT
Yes, please dump the first account. I had one to many JD & cokes & spelled it wrong when I signed on - here. Then, just realized that today. I have the pics on my machine. I tried the browse button & hell if I know where the file went. I will try -- again. Many thanks, Mycota

Sidebar -- Well, that did not work. After uploading with the browser button, then what? Sorry, I am a total non-computer person.

Posted by: Nanook Nov 27 02, 03:10 AM GMT
Done... Welcome aboard Mycota.

The only problem I can think if the browse button does not work is if the picture size is too large. It should upload through the browser. Try reducing your picture size below 250K.

http://www.mycotapro.com/index.html


Posted by: Mycota Nov 27 02, 04:04 AM GMT

test


Posted by: Mycota Nov 27 02, 04:19 AM GMT
another test 124g.


Posted by: NixxoN Nov 27 02, 08:24 AM GMT
What strain and or method of growth was used for those Mycota?

Posted by: Mycota Nov 27 02, 03:30 PM GMT
EQ, colonized millet based wild bird seed spawned @ about a 20 % ratio to a horse / cow manure based custom made compost w/opimized nutes, cased with a ph balanced peat, verm, coir mix in a mortor mix tub, in a controlled enviro with automated filtered air exchange, optimal temp & rh controled via humidistat & thermostat. wink.gif Mycota

Posted by: Fungusmaximus Nov 27 02, 08:56 PM GMT
ohmy.gif Well excuse me, Id like to see this masterpiece... if you bulid it they will come. I will.

Posted by: Mycota Nov 28 02, 01:41 AM GMT

Yo, FungasMaximus......................>grin<

Would you like to see a scan of my drivers liscence, the outside of it & the address too............? J/K.

I post some things, but not everything.

Like you said, build it "and they will come".

Ya right..... who will come.......is the question.

Sounds like you think it's BS.

Follow along, if you will.

Let's just put it this way. The size exceeds 8 X 8 X 20 ...something.

It might be mobile.

It is divided into 3 compartments. First is a clean room, 2nd is for incubation, 3rd is for fruiting.

A part of the enviro is inpart controled by things like this:

http://www.greenair.com/humidistat.htm

http://www.greenair.com/herrmidifier.htm

Here are some of the things that go on inside.


Posted by: Mycota Nov 28 02, 01:45 AM GMT


Posted by: Mycota Nov 28 02, 02:04 AM GMT

colonizing


Posted by: Mycota Nov 28 02, 02:12 AM GMT

cased & about to pin


Posted by: Mycota Nov 28 02, 02:29 AM GMT



Posted by: Mycota Nov 28 02, 02:33 AM GMT
another tiny test crop


Posted by: Mycota Nov 28 02, 02:38 AM GMT
more tiny test crops


Posted by: Fungusmaximus Nov 28 02, 05:08 AM GMT
Naw man, I believed you. I just enjoy seeing some who is serious show their stuff. If they call me a "pro" you must be an "expert" as are several people here. Thanks for the pics bro, your presence here is valuable and appreciated. I want to see more still. No Im not the law, just a fungus lover.
I understand your paranoia fully, me too, but I got over that a long time ago. Sir post allot now, sometimes too much. wink.gif


Quote
"Sounds like you think it's BS."


Bird Seed laugh.gif


Posted by: Mycota Nov 28 02, 05:35 AM GMT
Nope, I'm not noid. If I was, I would not be involved in this. One just has to keep any possible liabilities, far far away from him & his home, as I do. I'm no expert either. Far from it, I just like to tinker. Mycotia

Posted by: NixxoN Nov 29 02, 02:59 AM GMT
Wow, shockingly that sounded exactly like what I wanted to do. I even had the greenair site spotted out a week or so ago but I couldn't find a vendor that close to me, so I'm looking for webpages of vendors but got side tracked. Sounds like a very impressive setup you got going on, you have been an extremely valuble asset to my learning curve since you've arrived at this forum smile.gif
One question, any reason why you used millit based wild bird seed specificaly?
Oh and out of all the things you listed, optimized nutes, ph balanced case of peat verm and coir, and the optimized enviroment, how important would you say each of these are specificaly in your setup? Which one if it had to go for something less optimal would be the one to go? The reason I ask is I'm not sure if I can get all this stuff done, specificaly the optimized nutes in the compost.
Edit: Thought of another question after I closed this window.
What would you consider optimum nutrients, how do you get them, and how do you test for them?



Posted by: shroomsrock Feb 03 03, 01:46 AM GMT
I'm trying the wbs tek as my first casing. So far, I've soaked the seed, pc'd the stuff, and innoc'd with pf strain (it's all I got). I used some pieces of tyvek envelope (thanks, usps!) as filter disks, but I'm wondering... should I tape over the air exchange hole for a while, until the spores take? The RH in my house is pretty low this time of year, and I'm afraid that the jars will dry out on me.

ALSO...

I bought a small bag of gypsum at Lowes (for cheap) for fixing the PH of the casing layer. What PH levels should I be shooting for?


1 more...

Is there any composted manure that anyone knows of that I can get at a garden center that'll work to spawn to? If not, I'm just going to case the grain on this first go. Hell, it oughtta do better than a PF cake, anyway.
wink.gif
I considered spawning to straw, but the straw out at the farm is OLD and nasty... not to mention that the dogs sleep in it, so I don't think it's suitable. I'll probably check around this summer and get a fresh cut bale, but that's a few months off. I do have a pile of composted grass clippings , but I'm not sure if I wanna try that or not. laugh.gif


Posted by: Mycota Feb 03 03, 03:50 AM GMT
>>>>I bought a small bag of gypsum at Lowes (for cheap) for fixing the PH of the casing layer. What PH levels should I be shooting for?<<<<<<<

GYPSUM.............No ..... no ....... no

Eggs shells crushed to powder (as in blended -- in a heavy duty blender -- until they become powder), will work as a buffering agent.

I adjust ph with food grade calcuim cabonate powder ( can be had at most home brew & wine making supply stores -- cheap). AFTER the ph is adjusted with that (to around 7 - 7.5, tested with either ph strips or a ph meter).

I add a about 1/2 cup of egg shells that are crushed to around 1/8th minus to about 1/2 cubic foot of casing material, to serve as a LONG TERN buffering agent, in the casing mix.

The choice is yours, how you want to do it. But, it is advisable to TEST the ph (when you make the mix), to insure it is in the proper range. All peat has differing ph, as it comes from differing sources, that have differing conditions.

There is no set measurment of limestone or calcium carbonate to adjust a ph, because of that factor.
.....................................

Casing material pH & why it is important.

"pH", is a measure to describe the acidity of a medium. pH 7 is neutral; higher means alkaline, lower acidic.

Peat is a major constituent of preferred casing mixes. The pH of peat is variable, dependent on the source it came from. Meaning, the pH of peat differs from various sources.

The preferred pH range of a casing mixture is 6.5 to 8. 7.5 is optimal. Peat is acidic. Consequently, to achieve an optimal pH range of a casing mix, the pH of the casing mixture must be adjusted accordingly (within the range of 6.5 to 8).

The pH of the casing must be within certain limits to support strong mycelial growth. An overly acidic or alkaline casing mixture will depress mycelial growth and supports unwanted competitors.

It is generally easier to make casing materials more alkaline (i.e., increasing the pH) than it is to make them more acid (i.e., reducing the pH).

A movement of 0.5 is easy but, because the pH scale is logarithmic, a movement on the order of, 2.0 points becomes more difficult because there is a factor of 10x between each full point, so pH 5.0 is actually 100 times more acid than pH 7.0.

There are several common types of lime available for use, though care should be exercised with all of the products. Lime is caustic and a skin and eye irritant and can be dangerous if misused. If you choose to use such products, carefully read and follow all manufacturer directions exactly. The major types of lime products include:

Hydrated Lime: fast acting, but not long lasting. It is very effective to produce a fast change in pH level. It is also the "strongest" form of lime generally available, and you must follow all manufacturer precautions, since your skin and eyes can be easily irritated or burned if the product is misused.

Ground Limestone: a naturally occurring type of limestone that has been ground to a fine powder. How quickly it will act to modify pH and how long it will persist depends on how finely it was ground.

Generally, ground limestone is weaker than hydrated lime, needing about 30% more to raise the pH by the same amount. It has the advantage, however, of usually being significantly cheaper than the hydrated lime, and usually works more slowly and lasts much longer.

Mixed Lime: usually sold under a brand name. Most brands contain a variety of particle sizes to provide some immediate benefits, as well as a longer persistence. (this is often referred to as "time released" lime).

pH gradually falls to less than optimal by the end of cropping due to acids secreted by the mushroom mycelium. Consequently, a long lasting buffering agent is preferable.

If you wish to achieve optimal results, when adjusting pH? It is highly advisable to use litmus strips (with color chart), or acquire a pH test probe (available at most garden supply stores, under $20) to accurately test, and adjust the pH of your casing mix, prior to application.

Go to any good garden supply place & buy a ph / combo/ moisture meter.

Can be had from $7 to $20 bucks.

Toilet flush simple to use & no batteries required.

I have a Kelway. But, if you check the cheap ones calibration with litmus strips. To insure it is accurate. These little buggers work fine.
 



Doing all other cultivation steps properly. Then, applying a casing mixture outside the proper pH range, most often creates poor cropping results.


Posted by: Molester Feb 03 03, 05:21 AM GMT
Hmmmmnnn... I short term and long term... I will try to get both of these into my mix next time. wub.gif I've found that I can get free litmos from skool, I wonder if they have calcium too unsure.gif biggrin.gif


Posted by: Myco_holic Feb 07 03, 04:58 AM GMT
yeah , i tape the innoc hole. I dont know what good it does but i guess im just paranoid


Posted by: newman Feb 07 03, 06:50 AM GMT
If I am useing a filter I dont cover my wholes.
But that is just little old me.

Casings : Casing Overview : Misting/Moisture Control : Archives Main : The Nook