Newbie Casing Problem
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 19 02, 04:48 PM GMT|
| what do yA think
|Posted by: ShroomVator Dec 19 02, 04:50 PM GMT|
| For max potency, harvest now.
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 19 02, 04:58 PM GMT|
|sweet, thanks man|
|Posted by: ShroomVator Dec 19 02, 05:00 PM GMT|
| For reference, its best to harvest (for most potency, not most weight) right after the veil breaks or as it breaks. They could go another two days though (1-2, actually) before reaching complete maturity and best weight.
|Posted by: OZZ Dec 19 02, 05:23 PM GMT|
| Definately vator is right on the money, I would wait another day however, right when the veil is stretched to its furthest and there are little tears starting to develop, thats when I pick, I bet those could go a good 24 hours before the veil breaks though, just my prefference but I would wait about another day or until the above istances are met
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 19 02, 05:27 PM GMT|
| thanks again shroomvator..
but should i really wait? It wont make that much of a difference would it? I really wann trip tonight.
oh yeah, i tripped on monday and lastnight, would that affect my trip any, would the trip not last as long or hit as hard? And would a viatamin c pill help me out any? I heard Vit. C prolongs the trip..
|Posted by: ShroomVator Dec 19 02, 05:36 PM GMT|
| Vitamin C does not actually do anything to prolong or intensify your trip.
It may aid in digestion. But, really, don't bother.
You may want to wait a day or two to trip. As you probably know, your system quickly acclimates to mushrooms and your resistance builds up. If you want to experience the same level of trip you did last night, you will almost definitely have to increase the dose.
It seems like you are pretty new to this and are probably tripping often because you are excited. Glad you're having fun with your harvest, but keep in mind that you do not want to blow away your tolerance immediately - you will probably start slowing down and spacing out your trips more as most of the people here do.
But, I say this and repeat that if you want commensurate effects to last night, you will have to increase your dose. I would be hesitant to recommend such action because I hate recommeding doses to people, but for an anecodatal example, I remember someone back at Mycotopia (may have been Joey Ramone...) recommending that you increase the dose by 3 grams when tripping on consecutive days. Again, this is just for your edification - best course is probably to wait until the weekend.
|Posted by: OZZ Dec 19 02, 05:38 PM GMT|
| Well, it depends those guys dried may not turn out to be much of a trip considering 2 - 4 grams dried is usually what is recommended. Since mushies are 92% water those little guys are going to dry up.
Someone correct me if Im wrong but Im under the impression the "magic" keeps increasing with the shroom UNTIL the veil tears, which at that point the shroom gets larger and gains more weight but doesnt produce more magic to match the weight it is now putting on.
Assuming those could go another 24 hours you might be surprised how much bigger (and heavier ) they get while still increasing in potency in the proper ratio (until the veil tears of course, in theory).
Those veils dont look to me to be close to tearing for a little while. I'ld wait.....cant really tell from the pic but I bet dried those guys would be about a gram.
Again though, someone correct me if Im giving wrong info....
|Posted by: OZZ Dec 19 02, 05:41 PM GMT|
| Oooh ... I didnt even notice the part about you tripping recently ... yup ... tolerance climbs pretty quick.
Back in the day (way back ) I remember having to double my dosage of LSD to get anywhere even close to what I got a day or two beforehand.
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 19 02, 06:01 PM GMT|
| Thanks guys for helping me out, I really appreciate it.
Oh yeah for a note this is my first grow, and im not really to expierenced, what happened was I picked about 6 large mushrooms off this cake, they were substaintly larger than the ones in the 1st pic, probably 1.5x the size.
After I picked the 6, all the rest of my pins and the smaller shrooms in the pic had stalled. They havent really grown much in the last 32 hours. I think it is the humidity. My casing layer is hard and dry to the touch..it is not sandy dry but very compact, there is no moisture at all left on my finger after touching it. I think my problem is humidity. I have no rh meter so i dont know the rh level. There is light condesation on the walls of my chamber. Im constantly misting the sides, but i have never misted the casing layer itself. Like i said i think the previous shrooms used up all the water. I need perlite badly.
Im planning on splitting the ones up in pic #3 with a friend who has never tripped..I'm not sure how many to give him..?
Last night i split the ones in pic #4 with a differnt friend, and i was quite stoned for about 4 hours. I still havent decided if im gonna wait or not. but thanks for the feedback.
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 19 02, 06:08 PM GMT|
Does this look kinda dry? These pins
have not grown in two days... (see: casewater.htm)
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 19 02, 06:09 PM GMT|
| These are the ones were gonna split tonight maybe.
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 19 02, 06:10 PM GMT|
| These are the ones i split up lastnight, See how much bigger these are.
|Posted by: NixxoN Dec 19 02, 09:35 PM GMT|
|That doesn't look like a very big flush for a casing of that size, or am I way off here? Working with the dung and straw has kind of spoiled me as to flush sizes.|
|Posted by: Molester Dec 20 02, 12:11 AM GMT|
| Yeah, that does look small. Did you crumble the jars as soon as they appeared fully colonized or wait a few extra days? And did you incubate again after casing?
Maybe a weak mycelium?
|Posted by: Molester Dec 20 02, 12:16 AM GMT|
|Oh, and your pinheads look quite dark... I think that is also indicative of dryness. Looks like an abortion. How deep is your casing layer? You got lotsa knots, but I think they're supposed to form UNDER the surface. I may be wrong here, but mine always do.|
|Posted by: Mycota Dec 20 02, 12:33 AM GMT|
| You got kudo's coming, cause you actualy got some shrooms.
But, someting isnt right. You should have more + healthy & stout looking.
Just off the top of my head, it appears the substrate lacks moisture & the rh was low, in your fruiting chamber.
The acid enzimes myc creates, eats aluminum. Strange chemical reactions don't help. If you continue to use aluminum foil trays, next time line then with a layer of seran wrap or plastic.
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 20 02, 11:10 AM GMT|
| Just to clear things up, I crumbled and cased 2 1/2 pinters into that alum pan with straight verm. The pan is about 4 1/2w, 8 L.
My substrate depth is probably 1 1/2 inches. and i waited a week after full colonization.
Also I cant get ahold of any perlite right now, could i use verm for a substitute for a couple days? thanks guys for the help
and what substrates can be used that can be used without a pc?
|Posted by: OZZ Dec 20 02, 12:21 PM GMT|
| Perilite has no use with casings unless you are going to put it in the fruiting chamber (NOT on the casing itself) to keep a higher humidity level. However IMHO its more hassle than its worth.
Your casing layer definately looks dry, all you need is some distilled water and a spray bottle. What are you using for a fruiting chamber ?? Go buy a humidity guage there pretty inexpensive. Either that or just lightly mist the furuiting chamber once a day, and very lightly mist the casing layer every two days or so, thats what I do, however now that it is super dry I would harvest and recase with new, fresh, damp verm, then from that point on just keep it moist, not wet, but moist.
For moisture content when the verm is squeezed it should emit a single drip or so from a fistful, anything more or less is off. I just soak the hell out of it, grab a handfull and squeeze out the excess until it is barely dripping. Perfect everytime, then from there just make sure to mist the casing layer every so often to keep it moist, that and the fruiting chamber to keep the humidity up.
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 20 02, 02:35 PM GMT|
| OZZ-irst off I'm using a Rubbermaid Camping cooler. Dimensions are 12w,19L,16H, the inside is white plastic. I do have a temp and humidity gauge. It's one unit but its one of those cheap $10 plastic ones. It uses a dial like a clock. I read somewhere plastic gauges dont work so ive never put it into the cooler.
Also is it ok to mist my casing when it has pins on it? I'm still on the first flush, all of the big shrooms are harvested, but theres still tons of pins (15-20) and a bunches of white dots lacking heads on them ..they still havent grown much since lastnight. I've held off misting the casing,due to the pins, until i can get the OK from a pro. I was even thinking about putting a layer of thin moist verm over the entire casing, and filling the gaps on the sides. I think im losing moisture from the sides. I'm not sure about the verm
though, i dont know if that would suffocate the pins or not. Again thanks for all your input on this thread. I'ts very much appreciated.
And ShroomVator i'm defiently gonna switch to the 50/50 tek once im done with this casing. About thie pics, how many cakes are used in those pans, and thats not the + mix is it? thanks for your help too along with every1 else that posted. Sorry for your questions I just want to do this right the first time
|Posted by: ShroomVator Dec 20 02, 03:01 PM GMT|
After the appearance of pins, stop applying water directly to the casing and mist indirectly.
This is common - the flush is over, however. Either apply water directly to the casing at this point, let it rest, and begin the 2nd flush OR recase - if you do 50/50, use vermiculite on the bottom and 50/50 on top. When I recase entirely, I apply vermiculite to the sides and bottom (like a pie crust) so there is even coverage, then do the top layer however you want.
2 cakes in each pan. Its not 50/50+ in this shot, but 50/50+ is better still than 50/50.
|Posted by: OZZ Dec 20 02, 03:12 PM GMT|
| Ya if you have pins and hypheal knots (the little white dots with no heads) I would hold off for sure, give it another day or two and if you dont see any growth from the knots turning to pins, or the existing pins growing you may want to clean everything off, pins and mushrooms that is, and recase. The casing layer pulls away from the sides because it is losing moisture into the shrooms, they are 92% water so they take alot of moisture from the casing as they grow, this is why you want to mist the casing itself to keep the moisture level high while fruiting.
However, it needs to be done in several light mistings instead of one heavy misting .... which can damage the casing and/or the mycelium.
Ive heard that misting can damage pins but Ive never had this happen to me so long as you mist lightly.
The general idea behind making and taking care of a casing is that once you crumble your PF style cakes and case it with the casing layer, you are now waiting for the mycleium to colonize the casing layer before you put it in the fruiting chamber or initiate the fuiting stage. This usually will take from 2 - 5 days. During this time it is advisable to try to bring the casing layer up to is full moisture holding capacity with several light mistings maybe two times a day. I stress they must be light though, you dont want it too wet either. I usually put the casing layer on and give it a generous misting, then while waiting for the mycelium to colonize I mist it once the next morning and again that night, then once again the next morning and again that night ... then I leave it so its not to wet for the mycelium to colonize. Once colonization is observed I put it in the fruiting chamber, start fanning and introduce light.
I will mist the casing layer maybe once every other day at this point until the mycelium colonizes the casing layer at which point I stop misting so much. once the pins get past the "button stage" you can resume a daily misting to keep the casing layer moist so it can provide water to the fruit producing mycelium.
Definately check the archives, tons of good info on casings.
Another thing you should definately look into is the book "The Mushroom Cultivator" its a great book and Ive learned a lot from it.
Hope this helps some. Just remember that if it starts looking to wet back off, also heavy mistings or to many light mistings can damage the mycelium that is coming through the casing layer .... this is a bad thing so if you notice that the mycelium is coming through the casing layer in several places, cut the mistings back until the pins are past the button stage.
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 20 02, 04:14 PM GMT|
| Thanks again you guys, You've obviously put some time into answering my questions, the help is greatly appreciated.
SV- are thos 1/2 pint cakes or pints?
and i need a light to, would a night light attatched to the lid of my cooler work?
|Posted by: OZZ Dec 20 02, 04:23 PM GMT|
| Awww shux ... *blushes and grins* thanks vator ...
DC ... no problem glade to help, this is one of my all time favorite pics, Im sure vator and everyone else has seen it already ... probably a few times ... but I figure it might be eye candy for ya since your new ... this is a casing I did, Golden Teachers .... used 14 PF style 1/2 pint cakes.
This is first flush I beleive came out to somewhere around 700 grams wet (approx. 2 & 1/2 OZ dried) this casing went to four flushes before I tossed it.
Cased with a coco coir/verm mixture at 70/30 ratio.
Once you get the hang of watering down Dank ... you'll be amazed at what can be produced .. working with grains now and I hope to have even better pics than this in the near future
|Posted by: OZZ Dec 20 02, 04:29 PM GMT|
| BTW you sure do need a light, that, along with the reduction of CO2 is what triggers the mycelium to fruit, the only thing is attaching it to the inside of the cooler may get it to hot, not quite sure. You could try it but just keep a close eye on temps.
I would go to wally world and spend like $6 on a rubbermaid, take the lid and cut a hole in it, then duct tape saran wrap to the outside, over the hole and place a flourecent tube of some kind over it. Works great and wont bother heat or humidity.
BTW notice if you look close the casing is still pulling away from the aluminum pan, so even if you water correctly and get a great flush it is still to be expected and not necessarily a clue that there is something wrong.
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 20 02, 04:43 PM GMT|
| Thats Insane OZZ
Man I wish I could do something like that. Maybe a bit later, Im still messing around with this, expiermenting, observing etc.
I love this, and I think its gonna develop into a lifetime hobby.
btw what is better..2 seperate casings, each with 2 1/2 pints or one big four jar casing?
|Posted by: ShroomVator Dec 20 02, 04:49 PM GMT|
| Walmart has Fluorescent fixtures for two 40 watt bulbs for 6 bucks and bulbs for about a dollar each. I got 3 fixtures (6 bulbs) in my grow closet - all you need to mount is a drill and a tape measure. More than enough for mushies and my cactus seems to be getting the light they need because they are growing and healthy.
|Posted by: OZZ Dec 20 02, 05:09 PM GMT|
| Well there ya go Dank, you figure $6 bucks on a rubber made, Im sure you have saran wrap and duct tape laying around the house .... $6 bucks for a light fixture, $2 for bulbs and viola .. everything ya need to do it right for $14.
As far as your question goes it depends, pros and cons to both ways. The benefit of putting all your "eggs" in one basket is that the mycelium network is larger and stronger, thereby being (therotically) more resistant to contams and also having a larger nutrient base to draw from and produce your mushies. On the other side of the coin though, if it does contam, you lose everything ... where as two seperate casings if one contams you can cut your loses, throw it out and still have another casing to produce.
I think its probably prefference but those are the two biggest issues, I like bigger casings myself, up until recently, Ive never had problems with contams so I just put everything I had into large casings. Now that contams are an issue, Im doing a few small ones and a few larger ones to be safe.
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 20 02, 06:03 PM GMT|
| Unfortunately, I dont have a WM close by. The nearest one is about 3 hrs away. But I do have alot of those Rubbermaid Roughneck bins laying around. I suppose i can pick up a 1 foot fluro.
Oh yeah I decided to make 2, 2 cake casings tonight. Straight verm, bc i dont have access to peat for a 50/50. Im also gonna make up 6 brf jars up tonight, to start another cycle.
ShroomVator, what size were the jars used for those 2 pics you posted?
thanks again u 2 for all the help.
|Posted by: ShroomVator Dec 20 02, 06:19 PM GMT|
| 1/2 pt.
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 20 02, 08:20 PM GMT|
| Half pint??!! thats an awesome flush for 2 cakes. I didnt even get half that much for my first flush.
One more question How do you guys prepare your casing substrate for best results? Crumble, a combo of crumble and slices or?...Last time i sliced one cake and crumbled on top. thanks again
|Posted by: OZZ Dec 20 02, 11:23 PM GMT|
| I crumble .... myself
|Posted by: dankcrop Dec 21 02, 12:02 AM GMT|
| I took your guys advise and ditched the cooler
I got a rubbermaid bin and cut a piece out the top and set a fluro on top like you said Ozz. I also got some perlite tonight and added a 1inch layer across the bottom. This should solve my humidity problems. Everything is working great now. I think I'll continue misting for a little bit. thanks again for all the help offered.