|Posted by: deckerd Mar 27 03, 11:29 AM GMT|
| Ok, so today I got my 4 buttons in the mail. They are each 2-2.5 cm in diameter. I want to graft these babies onto my san pedro. My pedro stock are rooted cuttings that average 4 cm in diameter excluding rib width. How should i go about doing this? I'm so exstatic that I actually obtained these things, but I worry I may smother them with love and accidently kill them. I've read Adam Gottlieb's book and the grafting process he explains seems vague when it comes to alignment. I want the Nanook version with all the details neccessary for success.
|Posted by: deckerd Mar 27 03, 11:33 AM GMT|
| they look kinda like pulled teeth...
|Posted by: Teknos Mar 27 03, 02:23 PM GMT|
|my god thats a beautiful site!|
|Posted by: ion Mar 27 03, 02:33 PM GMT|
Go get some really long rubber bands, povidone iodine, long razor-knife, padded tweezers, and some rubber gloves before you do anything to the babies. Then just follow the archives... also check that "double-pickle tek" post in this cacti forum.
|Posted by: Samsara Mar 27 03, 05:04 PM GMT|
|This may be a good suggestion, but Ion or Nan or whoever, please correct me if I am wrong. Wouldn't it be a good idea to plant the buttons first, let them settle for a few weeks, then remove the buttons for the graft. If I am not mistaken, the roots can create a new button even if the one it is currently housing is removed. That way you could get all your buttons back eventually, just a thought.........|
|Posted by: Malformed Mar 27 03, 05:06 PM GMT|
| that makes sense. heh.
i think i would do it that way since they allready have roots.
|Posted by: ion Mar 27 03, 06:00 PM GMT|
| Sounds like a wonderful idea, Sara!
Do it! Just use some finely sifted Nan's mix (to get out the big rocks and clumps) in small (maybe 2inch) pots. Put a bit of sand around them for light reflection (it's nice and fine, unlike pebbles). Let them grow for a few weeks (ask Nan... I would say a good 6 weeks), then slice off the top just above one or two of the lowest areoles.
Oh, and go ahead and graft onto larger pedro... Just match up the rings concentrically perfect (small ring in perfect center of larger ring)... they will really take off!
Nan! Get your butt in here!
|Posted by: deckerd Mar 27 03, 06:21 PM GMT|
| I think I will go with that notion and plant them, give the roots a month to settle, THEN take cuttings for grafting. It just seems like a waste to throw away those developed roots.
I question whether the roots will be able to produce another button unless the current button has already flowered at least once in its lifetime. These look too young to have flowered. I remember reading that somewhere..
|Posted by: deckerd Mar 27 03, 06:27 PM GMT|
At their current size the bottom most areols are litereally on the top of the button, so a cutting above these areols doesn't appear to be substantial enough to graft.
|Posted by: ion Mar 27 03, 06:37 PM GMT|
| Well, hopefully, by the time you are ready to graft them, some of those areoles will have "migrated" toward the bottom.
You may be right about that maturity thing though... that's why I called for Nan!
He knows more than I do...
|Posted by: deckerd Mar 27 03, 07:04 PM GMT|
| from what i read about peyote harvesting, they say to cut at ground level for the button to regrow. i think i'll do it like so:
Note from Nan: Best to cut the button for grafting just below the widest portion of the button. Once you make a pickle slice off the bottom of the button prior to grafting you should be grafting the widest part of the button for the maximum contact area at the graft.
|Posted by: ion Mar 27 03, 08:34 PM GMT|
| Well, I don't know about that with such young (read: tender) plants... maybe after the roots have been established for a year or so... thing is, the areoles end up "rolling under" the bottom edge of the cactus as it grows, so I can see how such a steep cut would work for old ones.
Once again, I may just be talking out of my butt...
Nan! Bob! Get in here! These are babies! i want to see them treated as best they can be...
|Posted by: deckerd Mar 27 03, 11:23 PM GMT|
|LOL ion... chill out. I'm just like you and heavily research whatever I do before i do it. (unlike my moronic friend who paid for feminized skunk seeds and killed every single one of them .. i'm glad to say i was not involved in that massicare )|
|Posted by: ion Mar 27 03, 11:39 PM GMT|
ya know you can "feminize" your own seeds...
I know, deck. I don't think you'll hurt them (didn't mean it to sound that way), I just don't want those little guys sitting out any longer than they need to. Any damage to those roots can be a serious detriment to your babies.
|Posted by: Whiskey Wonka Mar 28 03, 01:00 AM GMT|
|Awwww, they are so cute. Yesh joo awe! Yecsh joo awe! Goowubdeebadoo|
|Posted by: Bob Roberts Mar 28 03, 11:42 AM GMT|
| Wow, those are really pretty babies. I'd say that you will definitely need a more extensive root system to have anything come back. Right now, it looks like you have two main tap roots on each. More than likely, one will eventually take over and the other will become more fibrous. So mainly I'd focus on getting an extensive root system which may take 4-6 months. A fertilizer that is higher in phosphorous (middle number) will help encourage root growth, ie...10-20-10 at half strength, as will regular waterings of course.
"He looks like a baby. I'm gonna eat you. get in my belly. I'm higher in the food chain. I've got corn in my crap bigger then you." -Fat Bastard
|Posted by: ion Mar 30 03, 01:48 AM GMT|
|Posted by: deckerd Mar 31 03, 12:05 AM GMT|
| "In the cutting of both cacti, you will see a ring, it would be perfect if the rings are the same size, which usually is not the case. The plant transports food and water through this ring, so the rings have to touch each other, so that the top can get what it needs. To make sure, that there will be a connection the top is placed out of center with the base, then there will always be two connection points" - http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav/cultivation.htm
Nan, is this the procedure you followed for aligning your recent graft (double pickle tek)?
|Posted by: ion Mar 31 03, 01:40 AM GMT|
| See? told ya not to listen to me...
|Posted by: Nanook Apr 01 03, 02:39 AM GMT|
| I have been buried guys... With that said...
Graft them now. Plant the roots after you graft.
I saw the pic where you drew a circle around the button indicating a likely spot to cut. I cut the small buttons like those at the widest point... Right through the fatest cross section of the button.
It is not necessary to perfectly match the vascular systems on the graft. First off, a button that size does not have much in the way of a mature vascular system, second... The Pedro stock you graft too will not have much in the way of fibered vascular system at the tip... You will see some on the pedro, and some on the button... But if the button is young (as yours are) and the Pedro is not trimmed too far back... I just center the button on the Pedro stock and let it go.
In my experience, once the graft takes, new vascular tissue will grow in just the right places
|Posted by: deckerd Apr 01 03, 07:46 PM GMT|
|thanks for your advice. i'd been eagerly but patiently waiting for it. you're the man!|
|Posted by: deckerd Apr 01 03, 11:49 PM GMT|
| as you can see, i was really eager to graft these things....
|Posted by: deckerd Apr 01 03, 11:50 PM GMT|
|Posted by: deckerd Apr 02 03, 12:20 AM GMT|
|I used a Miracle Blade IIIŽŠ filet knife to cut these cacti and repeatedly wiped it with an iodine swab after each cut. I also applied iodine to the rubber bands before securing the scions to their stock. I chose to affix them around spines since the pots are so large. I pretty much followed the book and post advice on this one, except I didn't pickle slice the Lophophora because they're so small. The rubber bands will come off in 3 days. It feels great to finally "seal the deal" uhyuck uhyuck... I just hope all these grafts take.|
|Posted by: deckerd Apr 02 03, 12:31 AM GMT|
|The lady who cleans our house is gunna see these things and be like "what the f*** kinda drugs is this kid on"|
|Posted by: ion Apr 02 03, 09:02 AM GMT|
Awesome, bro! Good luck!
|Posted by: Samsara Apr 02 03, 08:28 PM GMT|
|Looking good, hope it works out!|
|Posted by: deckerd Apr 03 03, 12:45 AM GMT|
| now that the pedro is drying out where i cut it off the tip, the exposed flesh is starting to sink down slightly below the skin, creating an uneven surface. some of the peyote cuttings are no longer making complete flesh to flesh contact with the pedro where the pedro's skin at the inner edges between ribs is pushing the peyote up. will a graft still take if there is not complete cut surface contact between the two plants, but the majority of the center still makes contact?
edited to say...
i fixed this problem by carefully removing the skin of the pedro at the top of the beveled portion
|Posted by: pixie Apr 06 03, 10:44 PM GMT|
|what a fun thread!!!|
|Posted by: Mar Lamia Apr 08 03, 06:43 PM GMT|
| Someone please correct me if needed but once you graft I don't think you want to do anymore cutting which exposes the button to oxygen and contams.
Deckerd, this happened in the beginning to all 9 of "mine" as well. You're talking about where the outside rim of the Peyote meets the cactus, instead of a perfect seal, they've drawn up a little. IMO it's normal. They will draw up at first, the outside edge will curl just slightly, but there is still a seal.
Also, the surface flesh turned red in some areas at the point of contact. 3 of them are still healing from this.
A couple of the pedro developed black flesh on the exposed (trimmed) areas. They're healing.
As you look at the top of the peyote there are 5 lines that make sort of a star. A couple of them split along these lines, some with a clean split a day or so after Nan took the bands off. These dried and healed right away. Some had black 'flesh wounds' in the splits, they seem to be doing ok as well.
The peyote puffed up nicely right away. I compared it to being more firm than the flesh on your fingertips, but with some 'give'.
I've noticed tiny white 'nodes?' sprouting on all of them, albeit some have 4 bright sprouts while others have only a couple.
These are all potted up on a deck, south side of my house. I don't water them as we've been getting rain atleast once a week. I know the soil and envoro is ok because the pedro's (without grafts) all have new growth at their tops.
Hope this helps
|Posted by: Serendipity Apr 09 03, 06:09 PM GMT|
|wow, that is really cool. Those buttons are just gorgeous... makes me want to try something like that someday.|
Nan's Double Pickle Graft : Shroom Glossary