Grains Too Dry?

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Posted by: Chronic007 Jan 08 03, 01:29 AM GMT
Well I just finished my first batch of Rye hard winter berries and now I'm freekin out cause it looks way too dry. I did a crap load of reading (like I always do) before getting started and I read of people freekin out in this same manner when in reality all is well but I need some patting on the back and an "its gunna be ok" from some people who have done this before.
Here is the process I followed.

1. Heated rye and water up to around 170 to aid moisture absorbtion, then turned off the burner, put the lid, and let set for about 18 hrs.

2. Drained the water and moved the rye into the strainer that was then placed under a wide spray shower head for thirty min. I know it was overboard but hell, I always do things pretty hardcore my first time.

3. After 30 min of rinsing I let the rye drain well for around 40 min until not a single drop would fall even when the strainer was shaken.

4. Next I loaded the rye into Qt jars until each jar was 3/4 full. Each jar had a 3/4 in hole in the lid that was covered by two layers of an Ultra Filtrete Furnace filter good down to .3 microns. the lids were then covered in foil and place into the PC and pressure cooked for 90 min.

5. After the PC hit zero pressure the lids were removed and all jars lids were checked for tightness then moved into my Hepa filtered positive pressure glovebox (pretty much a flow hood with arm holes instead of an open side) for cooling.

6. After cooling for about 1.5 hours, 3 jars were innoculated with 6 cc from three respective homemade prints to make sure that all were not a loss because of one bad print (although I have never had a bad print since I built the box.) For the forth jar i transfered about two tbls of hand crushed PF cake powder from a freshly birthed cake (all done in the box) just for shits and giggles.

Everything looked fine as I placed the jars into my incubator (constant 81 deg) this morning. When i got back from work 12 hrs later however things look dry as shit. Can spores germinate and begin growth in such a dry environment? Please post some pics or kick me down some reassurance to hold me over for a while. Any advice? Well any comments are welcomed and appreciated.


Posted by: Mycota Jan 08 03, 02:05 AM GMT
I am not familar with that filter material. But, it may be that the 3/4 inch hole, combined with a filter material that may allow a lot of moisture to escape, plus the fact that they were removed from the PC - HOT. May mean that combo of factors, allowed a lot of moisture to either steam off, or escape after PC'ing?

Not sure, since - I remove mine HOT - also. So you get the same old advice: Be patient, wait & watch.

I quit rye. Why? Because of a lot of variables. All rye is not the same. Plus, some has a harder coating than others. Plus, some has a lower dry moisture content & some others have a high dry moisture content. With so many variables, no one tek works all the time.


My old stand by, that never fails is:

WBS Tek (Wild Bird Seed) Bulk Spawn Preparation Method.

WBS consists primarily of white millet. It is often a combination of white & red millet - with a small percentage of sunflower seeds and sometimes tiny amounts of crushed corn. Some expensive brands are coated with a fungicide. For use as spawn material, treated WBS is not advisable.

You can find untreated WBS in 5 -10 & 20 pound bags, at low prices at most large chain grocery stores, or chain type pet supply stores. For instance, PetsMart has 40 pound bags for around $9.

Simply place whatever quantity you intend to use in a plastic pot, tub or bucket. Bear in mind, dry seed will expand about 20 to 25% - after it absorbs it’s capacity of water. Add tap water & soak the seed overnight. A 8 to 12 hour soak is fine. Seed soaked longer will begin to ferment. But, is still usable after soaking 24 to 36 hours.

There is no need to remove any floating husks, or sunflower seeds. These add lignin ( a good thing) & do not harbor any more possible contam’s than does the millet. It is all going to get thoroughly sterilized - anyway.

Once soaked, simply rinse the seed very thoroughly in a colander, or strainer. Then allow it to drain - WELL. As in 30 or more minutes. If it is drips - one drop. It is not drained - WELL.

Load pint or quart jars ĺ full, apply internal filter disk, material, polyfil or whatever method you use allow gas exchange through a ľ or 3/8 inch hole in the lid. Screw lid on tight & back it off ľ turn. Place a double layer of paper coffee filters over the lid & jar top, held down by a thick rubber band. Place the jars in the PC.

PC at 15 pounds for a full 60 minutes. 90 minutes is better, if you have the time. Allow the PC pressure to drop to zero & let it cool a bit. Open while still hot & remove jars. The paper coffee filters will dry almost instantly, when the PC is opened. Tighten lids (if necessary), shake jars to insure there are no clumps of seed inside. Place jars inside the oven on a rack, to cool, overnight. External coffee filters simply add another layer of protection to the jars content.

Once cooled to room temperature, store in a clean cardboard box - until used. Using them sooner than later is preferable. Note: This method was done in an All American PC. Some brands with a weighted pressure system require more internal water & it may be advisable to also cover the coffee filters with tin foil- while PC'ing, so no excess boiling water gains entry into the jars. Simply remove the tinfoil when you remove the jars from the PC.

Mycota wink.gif

Posted by: Chronic007 Jan 08 03, 05:47 AM GMT
Thanks for the advice Mycota, I'm going to give the jars five days and see how they turn out, in the mean time I'm going to get a hold of some WBS. If the seed is treated with fungicide will it be listed on the bag?

Posted by: Fred Garvin Jan 08 03, 07:45 AM GMT
I highly recommend Mycota's WBS tek. I used to futz around with rye, but getting the moisture right was a total pita. So I switched to millet. It's super cheap (I get 5# of straight millet at the local feed store for $3.69), and couldn't be simpler to use. I just put the millet in a pot, cover with enough water to ensure there's enough for absorption, and bring to a boil for only a minute or two. Then I remove it from the heat, and let it sit overnight. Next day I rinse and drain for about 10 minutes, shake a little more h2o out, and viola. Add it to the jars w/ a bit of gypsum, and you're ready to rock. I always PC for at least 90 min because I'm paranoid. I like to shake the jars as soon as the pressure comes down to zero and the jars are still hot. I use a cool little mason jar tongs that I got from a little old lady at a yard sale. I've found that shaking the jars while hot seems to redistribute the moisture throughout the millet, and makes later shaking easier. Put the jars back in the PC to cool until ready to inoculate. Could not possibly be easier. Haven't had any moisture or contam problems as of yet (bows to the shroom god and thanks 6T once again).

That's just my little variation of a great tek, I do it that way because it's so cheap, I don't mind if I end up with a little too much, I just chuck it in the compost pile.

As for your rye, I've had plenty that looked dry as hell, but ended up being fine. I always did G2G, so I don't know about your multispore jars. I think you will be amazed at the speed of colonization of the pf cake inoculated jar. I grate pf cakes w/ a cheese grater, and can usually get 4-5 qt jars from one cake with super fast colonization. I think of pf jars as the lazy man's (me) petri dish! biggrin.gif If ya cut the ratio down to one cake per two quarts, it seems like they colonize overnight. Happy growing bro!

One footnote, I learned recently to look at the jars before shaking if you're going to be striking them against the palm of your hand. Had one come apart recently, and barely missed slitting my wrist. I'd read the warnings from others before and never paid much attention. Now I visually inspect every jar, every time. Just FYI

Posted by: Mycota Jan 08 03, 11:04 AM GMT
QUOTE (Chronic007 @ Jan 08 03, 10:47 AM GMT)
If the seed is treated with fungicide will it be listed on the bag?

Some of the more spendy finch mix's are treated. It says so on the bag. The cheap generic stuff is not treated & that is what you want. I prefer a mix of seeds, rather than straight millet. The mix gives it a water absorsion balence.


Posted by: DirtyWOP Jan 08 03, 12:04 PM GMT
I highly recommend Mycota's WBS tek

that fact that WBS is so generic and cheap is what kicks ass
there is no grain tek as cheap, easy, and effecient
here is a jar after 4 DAYS grain transfer from rye
pretty wild huh?
it'll be done tommorow I'm sure
not one burst kernal in 12 jars smile.gif

Posted by: Mycota Jan 08 03, 02:00 PM GMT
Thanx DW. Nice jar.

Just gotta love the WBS tek, plus G2G transfers. Toilet flush simple, fast, cheap & easy. Spawn running out the gazooo, is a good thing. Higher spawn rates, become easy & lead to quicker substrate colonization & better cropping.

Mycota wink.gif

Posted by: Chronic007 Jan 08 03, 02:02 PM GMT
Wow, I'm sold! Thanks guys. I'll keep you updated on my rye and the progress on my WBS.

Posted by: Mycota Jan 08 03, 02:36 PM GMT
WBS jar day 12. Mycota

Posted by: Mycota Jan 08 03, 02:43 PM GMT
Might as well hang this in this thread for folks.
Mycota's Grain to Grain Transfers (G2G)

Once you have learned to prepare sterilized spawn pint or quart jars of bird seed, rye or grains & fully colonize them with mycelium. You can easily propagate a single colonized quart jar of that into about 20 more via G2G transfers. Jars propagated via G2G transfers generally colonize under optimal conditions 100% in 10 to 14 days . Given that, spores do not have to germinate, as what is transferred to freshly prepared jars is active mycelium on fully colonized seed or grains.

The method is to prepare fresh jars, just as you would to inoculate via a spore syringe (soak seed, rinse, drain, load, apply filter disk & PC). Excepting, rather than inoculate the fresh jars with a syringe. You transfer grain from a colonized jar to fresh uncolonized jars. The procedure is simple & only requires common sense, minimal preparation, a long stout clean stainless steel spoon & the cleanest personal hygiene and the smallest uncarpeted working place you can muster.

Prepare the smallest cleanest uncarpeted room you have (generally, a bathroom). In the following manner. Clean the room as best you can, getting rid of any dirt, dust, mold or mildew. Remove any cloth hanging anywhere. Spray Lysol on everything, everywhere & wipe it down. If you have any hepa type air filter unit? Place it in the room & run it for at least 1 hour. Running a hepa is preferable, but, if you donít have one. You can usually manage without it

Wipe your fully colonized jar of grain & your fresh jars down, with a clean Lysol sprayed rag. Place those in the room, on the counter top, or whatever flat working surface you intend to use. Wear freshly laundered clean cloths. If you have a face mask (preferable) wear it. If you have a shower cap to cover your hair (preferable), wear it. Enter the room, spray Lysol around (again) run the hepa for a few minutes (if you have one). Then, turn it off. Spray your hands & arms with Lysol & wipe dry.

Unscrew the lid off the colonized jar. Leave the internal filter disk or filter material in place covering the content. Unscrew the lid on a fresh jar, leaving the internal filter material in place. Remove the filter material from the colonized jar & dig up about ľ of content, as it will be colonized into a solid mass. Spoon out 2 table spoons full & transfer them to the uncolonized jar, by lifting itís filter up & spooning them in. Replace the filter material on the fresh jar IMMEDIATELY after spooning in the colonized material.

Repeat this same process as many times as you have fresh jars to transfer to. Once done. Screw the fresh jars lids on tight. Cover the outside of the lids of the fresh jars with a double layer of alcohol swabbed coffee filters & rubber band them down. Shake each fresh jar to spread the colonized material throughout it. Place your fresh jars in a dry, dark, warm place (preferably between 78 & 82 F), and allow them to colonize in peace & quiet. G2G transfer & shaking jars batters the mycelium. It takes it a day or 3 recuperate from that shock. There is no need to shake G2G jars more than once. As, doing so will only slow colonization, rather than speed it up.


Posted by: Mycota Jan 08 03, 02:56 PM GMT
>>>>>>>>One footnote, I learned recently to look at the jars before shaking if you're going to be striking them against the palm of your hand. Had one come apart recently, and barely missed slitting my wrist. I'd read the warnings from others before and never paid much attention. Now I visually inspect every jar, every time. Just FYI <<<<<<<<<<

Yo, Fred.................

I hear there, brother. Been there & done that. Could have resulted in many many sutures in & out of the old hand. No frigging FUN.

Simple precaution, even after inspecting jars, is to wear a thick oven mit, or old baseball glove on the hand you whack the jars against.


Better safe, than real sorry, with a trip to the hospital & a FU hand, for weeks, or forever. ohmy.gif

Mycota wink.gif

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