Antibiotic Agar: A Quick Discussion
Posted by: DirtyWOP Jan 20 03, 10:34 AM GMT
| Some people use anti-biotics in their agar......
There are several acceptable ones, that is, they inhibit the growth of competitor bacteria, while allowing the growth of the fungi we are after....
I have heard of several.....most namely a more commonly used one - peroxide.....
but peroxide, like many other antibiotics (Streptomycin, Tetracycline, penicillin, amoxocillin, etc.), can't survive the autoclave.......
One antibiotic that I would like to look into is Gentamycin sulfate. That is what is used in most commercial antibiotic agar mixes for sale.....probably b/c, unlike those above, it can be sterilized with the agar medium, rather than having to be introduced to the media afterward, risking contams.....
Sounds like a dream come true.....
Check out the post above by anno
Anyway, we're almost to the question....
In The Mushroom Cultivator Pauly S. briefly goes over the subject.....
Anno and Teonan seem to agree, in the above thread:
If you're still following, WHY is that?
They make it sound like if you use it too much it will explode.....
How can it be bad, I'm very curious.......?
|Posted by: Fungusmaximus Jan 20 03, 12:21 PM GMT|
| Probably because of immunity issues. Maybe the fungi will build immunites making the antibiotic useless. Or that the fungi may no longer be able to fight conatms by itself after repeated exposures to antibiotics.
A very good Q. I would also like to know the answer to that one
|Posted by: Fungusmaximus Jan 20 03, 01:39 PM GMT|
| Yes I believe it does. Over a period of several generations, repeated exposure would surely alter genetic makeup. Just as UV radiation, or isolation does. Not the effects just the altering of genes, and that its possible.
H2o2 can retard growth if myc is exposed for extended periods in high concetration.
|Posted by: killdannow Jan 20 03, 03:11 PM GMT|
| you could end up making bacteria that is resistant to antibiotics, then its in your house, then its in your lungs then your doc prescribes antibitotics, they dont work-hes like wtf -you goto the hosp, it hurts, costs alot, maybe the bacteria gets out of your house, now everyone is at risk.
I dunno if thats it, but it sure sounds terrible
|Posted by: DirtyWOP Jan 20 03, 03:57 PM GMT|
| Thats the only answer I've been able to find so far......
that resistant bacteria could be a risk to your health
but I think that sounds a little far fetched
I don't get sick from bacteria now...while it grows in my growroom
and if it doesn't have a chance to germinate
I'm at even less risk of getting sick
just because wet spot becomes resistant to the antibiotic
doesn't mean I'll instantly become sick from it
although it IS in the same family as anthrax
|Posted by: Voodoo Jan 20 03, 05:18 PM GMT|
Yes it does. I was given advice to spray my cakes with pure (3%) H2O2 after I dunked them. It took two weeks for them to recover. Totally unacceptable. They should have pinned within a few days but the peroxide really kicked their ass. But no contams for sure!
|Posted by: Fungusmaximus Jan 20 03, 06:37 PM GMT|
I think that repeated use is the key, I wouldnt chance creating some super resistant bacteria in my home. Maybe you dont get sick cause it is killed off by other means first lysol etc. but one good lung full and youll get sick I promise Then you have a lung full of shit that resists treatment and your screwed. But like you said it does seem far fetched, although all it would take is a small speck of the stuff sporolating one time, and its everywhere!
|Posted by: Zoom Jan 20 03, 10:54 PM GMT|
| It's really not so far fetched when you consider that there are strains of vd that are resistant to penicllin because of prolonged exposure to it over several generations. Bacteria, viruses, and other microorganisms have the ablity to transfer genetic information after death to other living microorganisms of the same specie. Sounds like sci-fi but true.
|Posted by: Kermit_The_Frog Jan 21 03, 12:56 AM GMT|
Yes, bacteria and viruses also exchange genetic material throughout their entire life cycle. By constantly exchanging genes they can adapt quicker to fight antibiotics.
If I remember Bioliogy correctly, the organism's grow these tentacles out to meet and swap genes.
Nature is amazing.
|Posted by: newman Jan 21 03, 10:01 AM GMT|
| Your not going to create a bacteria resistant to antibiotics used to treat
people, by using peroxide. I think the trouble would be now you have a peroxide resistant bacteria that you cant controle any more. (growing wise)
Gentamycin on the other hand is used today for human antibiotics, This could pose a problem. But tell that to the cattle industry, there in lies alot of the super bug problems.
|Posted by: DirtyWOP Jan 21 03, 10:52 AM GMT|
| I know it isn't a problem using peroxide....
and even if the bacteria that lives in my growroom were resistant to the peroxide, I still wouldn't get any MORE contamination from it then I do NOW.
and thats why I think it's ok to use Gentamycin....
I'm don't sniff my plates or anything.....
when I do get contams, I throw em out.....don't even dump em and reuse
so I'm not at any MORE of a risk for GETTING SICK.....
and as long as I keep my cool and stay careful
so it isn't THAT realistic in my situation
for the super-germs to thrive and kill me
I just need a good way to DISPOSE of contamed pitris......
ANYONE GOT ANY GOOD WAYS TO DESTROY CONTAMS?
WITHOUT LEAVING THEM FOR THE TRASH MEN?
I need an isolated contamination station
with an incinerator....
and a biohazard suit....
thanks for the responses
If I do get sick newman...
I'll just get amoxicillin, I've never heard of Gentamycin used in humans
|Posted by: Mycota Jan 21 03, 11:15 AM GMT|
I agree that antibiotics should only be used sparingly & only as a last resort to obtain a clean culture. The use of them, simlpy adds a complexity that did not exist before. The complexity can multiply & become problomatical after extended use.
I use a 5 gallon tough plastic bucket, with lid & about 1/2 full of a strong bleach solution to throw any small nasty things in. Then cover it with the lid for a day or so. Only BS about that it, the solution gets rather nasty, with crap floating in it, after some use. I simply chuck it & refill -- every now & then.
|Posted by: DirtyWOP Jan 21 03, 11:24 AM GMT|
| Thanks mycota
Thats a good idea
see I don't know what that means
it's what I've been trying to figure out
always seems to be mentioned vaguely
Where will it multiply if I don't let it?
I'm not planning on using these ALL the time
I'm just curious
|Posted by: Mycota Jan 21 03, 12:33 PM GMT|
| It all boils down to survival. The fit survive, the unfit do not. Living things are capable of developing multiple defense mechanisms, in order to survive. Over time, any living thing -- will -- after repeated exposure to something carcinogenic to it, build either defenses or develop genetics towards creating immunity to whatever is harmful to it. Otherwise, it will not survive.
The life cycle of fungal contaminants -- is extremely short compared to people. They can develop genetic traits quickly in comparison to humans. Expose those contaminants to anything harmful to them & the rule of surival of the fittest, will start to develop. They will begin building antibody type defense mechanisms, in order to survive.
You do not want armor plated contam's wandering around your grow room -- do you?
Simple as that. Mycota
|Posted by: DirtyWOP Jan 21 03, 01:42 PM GMT|
| Well I haven't seen any peroxide-resistant contaminants yet.....
|Posted by: DirtyWOP Jan 21 03, 01:43 PM GMT|
|and there aren't really generations of bacteria growing at all if I don't let them continue....so the falty genetics will end right there in the bleach bucket|