Air Exchange.. Is There A Definitive Answer?
|Posted by: free spirit Jun 20 03, 11:41 AM GMT|
| ok guys...
first off i have been reading the archives... in fact thats what spurred me asking this question...
i seem to see some differing information regarding air exchange in our little micro climates. sometimes im seeing people saying that the more fannings a day... the better (like up to 5 or so..)
and then i see other statements that are saying that the myco need higher levels of co2 to initiate pinning, and that people should decrease the amount of fannings daily.
im curious if there is a magic number.. or if this is something thats strain dependent?
|Posted by: Malformed Jun 20 03, 12:10 PM GMT|
| almost everything having to do with growing mushrooms is dependant on everything else.
strain, substrate, temps, humidity, im sure even the type of light and amount and intensity of light plays a role in there somewhere.
i try not to fan the mushrooms more than once a day untill they start pinning.
once theres a good pinset going, i fan more.
there is no set amount of fanning or misting, you just kind of have to feel it out for yourself.
|Posted by: CharlieBrown Jun 20 03, 12:23 PM GMT|
| Mycelium gives off Co2 which is why you need to fan it in the first place, to introduce fresh air and expell the o2.
Once pins form, your myclium releases even more Co2 in to your growing environment so you are required to fan more.
Generally once or twice a day is sufficient but once pins have formed, fanning a few extra times can help with your pin set and the actual size of your fruits.
|Posted by: lil'MushMan Jun 20 03, 01:11 PM GMT|
|so fan about 1 time a day during pinning? then once the pins start to become obvious and large (hopefully many of them as well) you bring it up to say... 3-4 times a day?|
|Posted by: KlanKy Jun 20 03, 01:25 PM GMT|
|It is possible to fan too much, you have to maintain humidity in your terrerium and fanning brings in fresh non-humid air. I found this out the hard way fanning 4-5 times a day and my little guys were all dried out. Another thing i messed up on was not fanning hard enough, you have to really expell that air, taking the lid off and waving it a few times don't suffice, you have to really wave that thing like a mad man, i stick a small fan down inside the terrerium for about 15 seconds to make sure i get all the bad stuff out.|
|Posted by: CharlieBrown Jun 20 03, 01:36 PM GMT|
| 4 or 5 times a day would be about perfect, but you're right Klanky, you'll dry out your grow chamber. So in order to avoid this, give a nice light misting with a spray bottle after you fan each time.
A half assed figure:
Pin formation: Fan morning and night. (remember to spray each time)
Post pin formation: at least 2 times (try about 3 or 4) a day.
When you wake up, when you come home from work/school, before you go to bed. If you get a chance during the day, an extra fanning shouldn't hurt. (still spray each time)
Edit* According to TMC, the appropriate gas exchange level for Cubensis is quoted at a minimum of 1 to 3 times per hour. That means all the air in your chamber should technically be cleaned out 1-3 times EACH hour. Wow, that's a lot of fanning!
|Posted by: lil'MushMan Jun 20 03, 03:46 PM GMT|
| yeah but those figures arent possible unless you have what that book is talking about.
here is what i am thinking. (practically what you just said)
during pinning: fan once in the morning when i get up, then before i go to bed.
fruiting: fan once after i wake up. then fan after i get home from 'work/school', then before bed.
...so about every 6-8 hours during the day (3 times, somewhat evenly spaced) and sleep time at night.
and ofcourse misting after each fanning.
is this good enough?
|Posted by: lil'MushMan Jun 20 03, 03:55 PM GMT|
| oh and what about contams?
when you fan contams can 'walk' right in their and take over the chamber!!
should this be something to worry about?
|Posted by: rooster Jun 20 03, 04:06 PM GMT|
|its expensive... but you should be spraying the air around it with some thing before you fan. (oust, neutra-air, lysol) or if your real good you can make your own spray to sterilze the air (with tryethylene glycol), or point a HEPA filter output into the chamber for a minute.|
|Posted by: lil'MushMan Jun 20 03, 04:09 PM GMT|
| also you could use a mixture of bleach/water when misting right? as well as spray
that would kill the little bastards
WHUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! die contams die!!
how much bleach can you put in the spray bottle safely?
|Posted by: rooster Jun 20 03, 04:32 PM GMT|
| I think bleach and lysol are best for surfaces, since they take 30 seconds to kill contams.
Oust and neutra-air are made for the air, though they are expensive. 4-5 dollars a bottle, 1 lasts about two weeks for a small op. My foaf is saving for a HEPA. The nice ones start at 100 dollars I think.
|Posted by: CharlieBrown Jun 20 03, 04:41 PM GMT|
| Some people prefer to lysol the room before fanning, but I don't worry about it. I don't find any less contamination rate when I do this, so I prefer to save my Lysol for other things. You have to figure, once your casing is in your grow chamber, the mycelium has a good hold on your substrate and has a natural ability to fight off a limited amount of contams attack. Test it out with a few runs and see. Maybe spraying will be worth it for you.
A HEPA would be nice too, but if you don't have many contam problems you probably don't need one. It's on my list of things to buy, it probably would be worth the extra bill you kick for it.
|Posted by: Nanook Jun 20 03, 08:22 PM GMT|
|Fanning actually reduces contams. Contams get bad in stagnant air, in fresh moving air the shrooms defend themselves right fine|
|Posted by: lil'MushMan Jun 21 03, 03:07 PM GMT|
| well that is good to hear
|Posted by: free spirit Jun 22 03, 08:23 AM GMT|
| ok.. really great responses guys....
ok so the basics of air exchange ARE:
during initial transfer thru initial pinning- fan 1 to 2 times a day
during fruiting fan 3-4 times a day
make sure to mist after every fanning assuming the humidity needs it (only exception i could think of would be a few days after just casing or double end casing)
dont worry too much about sanitizing around fully colonized plants because most of the real baddies that have a chance at taking over your myco thrive in an anaerobic environment. so fanning provides new air to help your myco do better and all other bacteria/mold/fungi not get a foot hold.
thanks for the help guys... you guys rock
|Posted by: Nanook Jun 22 03, 08:30 AM GMT|
|Posted by: rooster Jun 22 03, 08:30 AM GMT|
| yeah once you have a contam wipe out a whole crop, you will take EVERY precaution you can
maybe my foaf is over-cautious, a good thing IMO
|Posted by: WescoI Jun 23 03, 12:30 PM GMT|
| definitive answer : flow hood
but if you cant afford one, or are lazy like me, the home hepa units (lowes) at wallyworld work like a charm
|Posted by: Raedon Jun 24 03, 09:44 PM GMT|
|A cool mist set to turn on 30 minutes every 1 hour and 30 minutes along with Perlite seems to work ok.|
|Posted by: maryxmas Jun 29 03, 08:42 PM GMT|
| a foaf didnt have time to fan all of his bins 4 times a day for 2-3 mintues each ( ends up being a hour a day) so he build fanning equipment. he took a 4 inch diameter piece of PVC about 3 inches long and drilled alot of holes in the sides of it this keeps the fan off the bottom. he then attached a computer fan to the top of it facing so it blows up then attached a 3 foot piece of vinyl slinky style ducting to it. now he just drops one of this lil doo hickies into each bin and attaches a battery. the fan creates negative pressure and sucks the CO2 through the holes in the pipe and pushes it up and out of the duct and out of the bins. so now he can go to the bathroom come back in 4 minutes to freshly fanned bins. next step is to automate it all. but he likes to keep his setup mobile, can be packed up in 2 minutes if needed.