Straw Logs. . .My Latest Project, w/pix by rodger rabbit

Nan's Nook : Archives : Misc Tek : Straw Tek : Straw Logs. . .My Latest Project, w/pix by rodger rabbit

           Subtopic: Colt's Straw Logs

Posted by: snippynutz Jul 02 03, 06:13 PM GMT
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 04:11 pm: Edit


Skyypilotís Straw Log Tek

The inspiration for this Tek came from reading Paul Stametsí book, ďGrowing Gourmet and Medicinal MushroomsĒ. He describes a similar process for growing Oyster mushrooms on straw in vertical columns, where the fruits only form at holes you have previously punched. This works great if youíre working with a strain of edible which will cooperate that way, but many mushroom strains simply want to fruit wherever they choose. It is for those strains of edibles that this Tek is intended. Although all edible and dung loving mushrooms love fruiting on pasteurized straw, the author wishes to make clear that this Tek is intended for the cultivation of legal, edible mushrooms only.

The Tek assumes the grower is familiar with grain spawn production, because building a 36Ē log, which we will be doing in this Tek, requires from 4 to 6 quarts of colonized rye or corn. If youíre using smaller than quart (.9 liter) jars of colonized spawn, youíll have to do the math to figure how many to use. More spawn is better, as fast colonization of straw is essential. The pasteurization process doesnít kill all the contaminants; it only renders them harmless for approximately two weeks. If the mycelium hasnít colonized the substrate by then, contamination naturally will occur. The pasteurization process also spares the Ďgood bacteriaí which help the mycelium to naturally fruit better, as well as to help fight off contaminants. If one were to put straw into a pressure cooker and sterilize it, harvests would be much lower as a result of killing these beneficial bacteria, and it would be considerably more susceptible to contamination. Iíve worked hard to put together what I think is the most concise and easy to follow directions for pasteurizing small amounts of straw on the net today. Pictures accompany every step. Donít cut corners, and youíll be guaranteed success. Iíve tried to shrink the pictures as much as possible without sacrificing detail, to make downloads faster. I would recommend the reader print a copy of the Tek for future use.

1) Ok, the first step is to get a bale of straw from the local co-op or feed store. If you can find organic straw, it is preferable, because any contaminant or pesticide that is in the straw is likely to end up in the fruit bodies. The feed stores in my area carry organic barley straw and it works great. I know that wheat straw would also work.

2) Using whatever tools are at your disposal, chop the straw into 1-3 inch lengths. This is VERY important. The mycelium simply doesnít like to colonize straw if it canít get inside the hollow interior of the stems. Consider any length of straw longer than your pinky finger as too long. Itís a pain in the neck, but donít cut corners here. Your project will fail.

3) Once the straw is cut, put it in a Sterlite or Rubbermaid container (or anything else similar, like a clean trash can) and cover it completely with hot tap water. I use the sink sprayer, to wet the straw evenly as the container fills. When you have enough water in the tub, place a screen and weight over the straw to push it down under the water. It needs to Ďpre-soakí like this for at least an hour, but not longer than 2 hours. This is to hydrate the straw.

4) During the time the straw is hydrating, you need to get the pasteurization bath ready. You will need a container large enough to hold 14-16 gallons of water, plus the straw. Place one Sterlite or Rubbermaid container inside another for the insulation properties the dead air space between them provides. A very large insulated ice chest would also work well for this. The idea is that you want to hold the temperature of the pasteurization bath for an hour and a half. Without insulation of some sort, the bath will cool off before the time is up and not be effective.

Donít start this process until the straw is soaking, or else the pasteurization bath will be ready before the straw is hydrated, and either you put the straw in too soon, while itís still dry, or the water cools off too much waiting on the straw. What you want is to have a temperature of 140F-160F, after you put the wet straw into the hot water bath. Iíve found the best way to do this is to heat up six gallons of water on the stove until it boils. The two pots you see in the picture add up to six gallons between them.

When you have six gallons of water on the stove boiling, place two gallons of plain hot tap water into the clean tub, before pouring the six gallons of boiling water into it. Immediately place the two lids on the container to hold the heat in. Refill the pots with another six gallons of water and set them on the stove to boil. When this water boils, it will make 14 gallons total so far. Just before pouring in the second batch of boiling water, itís a good time to add the lime. Use Ĺ cup of hydrated lime for this recipe which uses 14-16 gallons of water. Be sure to stir the lime into the water very well. If youíre making a larger or smaller batch, adjust the lime accordingly. This will give the water a ph of 12-13 before the straw is added. This radical swing in ph, along with the heat will render the contaminants inactive for a couple of weeks.

5) Once youíve added the second batch of water, itís time to put the wet straw into the pasteurization bath. At this time, the temperature of the bath will be around 180F, but as soon as you add the wet straw, it will cool it down to the proper range of 140F-160F. Simply use your hands to lift the straw out of the bath, let it drain briefly, then place it in the pasteurization tub.

Once all the straw is in the bath, stir it around gently to lift any lime that has settled on the bottom of the tub. Place a screen (hardware cloth works great) over the straw, and put whatever object you have handy on top to keep the straw submerged. Donít worry about a few floaters that escape the screen. They will pasteurize just fine floating on the surface. You donít want to mash it all the way to the bottom or pack the straw tight while in the bath, because you want the hot water to be able to circulate throughout the straw during pasteurization.

Now, put the double lid on the tub to hold the heat in, and leave it alone while you go clean up all the mess you just made. Make a note of the time. Check on it after 45 minutes, and if the temp is approaching 140F, go ahead and add a couple more gallons of boiling water to bring the temp back up. Donít worry about adding more lime. After an hour and a half, itís done. Donít go more than an hour and a half either, or youíll kill too much of the Ďgood bacteriaí.

6) Ok, itís been an hour and a half and itís time to take the straw out of the pasteurization bath. Place the screen that was holding the straw submerged into the bottom of a clean tub, and transfer the straw to this new tub to drain/cool.

Cooling will take an hour or more. Donít waste all your hard work, by spawning hot straw. It will kill the mycelium. Leave the lid off the tub so air can get to it, and if itís cool outside, take it there. Donít worry about contaminants landing on your straw; Millions of them will, but with the high ph of the straw, they wonít be able to grow for at least two weeks, and your log will be pinning by then anyway. By that time the mycelium will be strong enough to fight off all invaders.

7) Now that your straw has cooled to room temperature, itís time to move it from the screen itís been draining on, to a clean tub for spawning. (You DID wash the pasteurization tubs while the straw cooled didnít you?) Donít squeeze it out or anything. The water that drains naturally while the straw cools will leave it at the right moisture content for spawning. At this time, cut your tubing to the appropriate length. Weíre making a 36Ē log, so cut it 18Ē longer than that.

Tie a knot in one end of the tube, and using a sharp kitchen knife, poke a few small holes in the plastic near the knot. These holes are to let the air escape as you pack the log. Take the 4-5 quarts of colonized grain or corn you have so carefully incubated, and beat them against a car tire to loosen up the kernels so they can be poured out into the tub of straw. I like to start with 2 quarts right on top of the straw.

Mix it into the top two to four inches only, before loading this top layer of spawned straw into your tube. Add another quart of spawn and mix it in, and continue the process until you reach the bottom of the tub, and your log is built. It seems to work better to thoroughly mix the spawn into the straw, as opposed to making a layer of straw, followed by a layer of spawn. This next part is VERY IMPORTANT. As you fill your log with straw, hold the straw in your hand, and gently sprinkle it down into the tubing, making sure it spreads evenly. You donít want big clumps of straw, with air cavities between them. After each handful or two of straw, stop and pack it down really tight with your hand.

Hold the tubing in one hand and pull up, while you stick the other hand down the tube and push down on the straw with all your might. I weigh close to 200 lbs., and I push down on the straw as hard as I can. Itís very important that the straw is packed tightly into the tube. The mycelium canít colonize across large air gaps, so spread the straw out evenly, and push it down really good. Donít stand on it or use mechanical means to get it tighter. Just push as hard as you can with your hands, and that will be perfect.

8) Now that youíve filled up your tubing to within 9 inches of the top, itís time to tie the second knot, sealing the log. Push the straw down really tight, and squeeze the neck of the tubing against the straw. Holding the tubing with one hand, spin the log around with the other to wrap up the plastic tubing so you can tie a knot in it. Just make sure you tie the knot right against the straw, so the tubing keeps the straw tight. Now lay the finished (almost) log on the floor, and with both hands, roll it gently back and forth, to even up the surface. Roll it like a piece of dough, to get it very smooth on the outside surface.

) This is an important step to help achieve full colonization. Now, carefully take your log, and place it on the shelf you are going to incubate it on. Leave it alone for 3-5 hours, but not longer than 8 hours before doing this next step.

9) Almost done. Your log has been sitting for 3-5 hours now, so the moisture content has had a chance to equalize. All that packing during filling had pushed your moisture to the bottom of the bag. Some excess water may have run out the small slits you cut in the bottom of the tubing while you packed. That is good. Now, for the mycelium to colonize the straw, it needs a small amount of air exchange. It doesnít need a lot of air, just some. Also, you want to keep as much of the CO2 inside the log as you can during colonization. I use a hunting arrowhead to punch holes into the tubing. You can just as easily use a sharp knife, or box cutter. Cut slits in a + shape about every 2 to 3 inches all along and around the log. The slits only need to be half an inch or so long. Just make sure no place on the log is more than 3Ē from a vent. The idea is to have a small amount of air exchange, while maintaining moisture content. Now, put your log into its final fruiting location, and donít touch it again until you see pins forming invitro. This will be in two to three weeks. The growing mycelium HATES to be handled, so resist the temptation to pick up your log, or otherwise disturb it. Let it be exposed to normal room lighting during colonization, and donít let the temps get too high. Room temperature is fine. With a marking pen, record the date and strain on the end of the log.

10) Itís day fifteen, and you have pins! Youíve noticed for a few days already, that you had full colonization. Itís time to birth your log. Try to do this without moving or disturbing the log in any way. Use sharp clean scissors to carefully cut the knots off both ends of the log. Youíll have to cut a circle around the knot to get it off. You canít cut the whole knot off in one snip, because itís up against your log, and youíd bruise the mycelium. Once the knots are cut off, carefully cut the tubing lengthwise along the top edge of the log, trying not to touch the mycelium with the scissors. Peel the plastic down and away from the log, exposing the entire surface to air, then gently and loosely fold it back into place. There should be lots of air gaps around the log now. Once each day, fold the plastic back, then immediately replace it. This will stimulate a massive pinning. You can cut another length of tubing to go over the top of the log where the seam is, to keep it from drying out. Be sure to cut lots and lots of holes in this plastic. All you want to do is slow down the rate of evaporation, so you donít have to mist. You do want lots of constant air exchange. If you see a great deal of condensation forming on the plastic sheeting, make the holes a bit bigger. As your log fruits, the mushrooms will push the plastic away from the log as they grow. Donít worry about the fruits being in contact with the plastic. It wonít hurt or bruise them. Theyíll love the humidity, and youíll love not having to constantly mist.

Happy shrooming!

By Jesse James (Spacecowboy) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 05:16 pm:

By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 04:09 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I've been working on this new TEK for a few months now, trying to perfect the process. I hope a bunch of you will try it and let me/us know how it goes. I think it's the next logical progression from the Laundry Basket TEK, because it completely eliminates the need to mist. The straw gets colonized inside a vented plastic tube, so the moisture and CO2 stays inside where it belongs. After the first few pins form(invitro), you cut the plastic off, and use it as a 'humidity tent' to allow air exchange while keeping the evaporation level under control, so the most awsome flushes can develop. I'll write the full TEK and post it here if anyone is interested. These straw logs produce the FASTEST and largest crops I've ever seen. The logs you see in the pix below were pinning on the 14th day after spawning with grain. The longest I've waited for pins to form was 18 days. Some were spawned with rye, and some with corn. I've made straw logs anywhere from 12" in length up to 72". The smaller ones are easier to handle, and I've stopped making them any longer than 24" for that reason. The six foot log weighed in at over 100LBS, and was very hard to move after full colonization without bruising the mycellium. The fruits form in a full 360 degrees around the log, so the yeild is incredible. You don't case, don't fan, and don't mist! The 48" log you see below produced 17 lbs of fresh mushies, including the 74 gram fatty, on the first flush, from less than a dollars worth of straw. It was spawned with 6 quarts of either rye or corn, I forgot which. (I've even mixed rye and corn together in the same log) The 72" log 'only' produced 18 lbs, because I damaged it quite a bit getting the plastic off.. After full colonization, they don't like to be moved, because if the log flexes, it bruises the mycellium. Try to let them incubate where they will fruit at. I incubate mine on a shelf in a 72F room. Enough heat is produced by the mycellium running through the straw, that if it was in much warmer of a room, it would overheat and kill the myc. The 12 inch log shown below has over 100 pins on it, so I think smaller logs are the way to go.


Full Colonization. Invitro pins forming. The two spots you see at the left that aren't fully colonized is where I didn't pack the straw tight enough in the tube. You want to really pack it with all your weight, so it's pressed tight against the plastic tubing.

A 12 inch log that has just been 'birthed'. Use scissors to cut the tubing along the TOP edge of the log, and let it serve as a 'tray' for the log to sit on. (you can cut another piece of plastic to lay loosely over the top to keep the humidity up, just be sure to poke lots of holes in it for air exchange) Also if you HAVE to move the log, use the plastic so you don't touch the log.

The same 12" log, 24 hours later.

This is a 48" log, 24 hours after birthing.

The same log, 48 hous later. Notice how the pins just exploded! I counted over 800 pins before I lost count. All on less than a dollar's worth of straw!
9
Here's a 24" log, on the second day after spawning. You can clearly see the mycellium growing out of the rye, and into the straw.
10
I'll post a full TEK if ya'll want. I have a pretty good method for pasteurizing the straw in my old rubbermaids. Hell, don't need 'em anymore for anything else! lol. Oh, and one more thing. I've only pulled 5 aborts out so far! For some reason, they don't abort on the logs. I don't know why. I've had ZERO contams, probably because the straw colonizes so fast, and this is in a house with wall to wall carpet. Hell, I even build the logs on the kitchen floor. Can't think of a worse place, but it's all I have.
By F. Ungus Fox (Fungitodd) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 04:48 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
All I have to say is...

That is FREAKIN' AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By shroomkalthoom (Shroomkalthoom) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 06:19 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
WOW!
Please post the full tek.
By matt (Flourish) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 08:49 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Nice! I'm interested to see the full tek.

I noticed your explanation in another thread. Do you know a source for the plastic tubing where you do not have to buy in bulk? 8 cents a foot is great, but I doubt most people will want 1075 feet of the stuff. Did you experiment with thinner tubes?

yay! matt
By Pennywise (Pennywise) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 08:51 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Yes, please post the full tek. That is just awesome.
By Blycat (Blycat) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 10:40 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Yes yes, please post!
By F. Ungus Fox (Fungitodd) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 11:52 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Yes, 8 cents per foot is super cheap, but I don't know if I want to purchase 1000 feet to start with. Rodger, would you be interested in selling me say 15-20 feet so that I could experiment with your log method? Or maybe we could do a trade or something.
If your interested, please email me at: goja76 at ziplip.com
By F. Ungus Fox (Fungitodd) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 11:54 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah,

Have you tried setting your logs vertically? Them shrooms would grow off of it like tree branches.
By Blycat (Blycat) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 12:59 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
What is the width, and thickness of the poly tubing you reccomend?
By lurker (Lurker) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 02:33 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I think we're all pretty excited about this tek!
By Jorneyer (Jorneyer) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 02:38 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
And good on ya' for experimenting and discovering new methods
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 02:50 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Thanks guys,
It'll take a few days at least to write the tek, so bear with me. I'll try to answer a few questions about the process in the meantime though. The tubing came from WW Grainger. Part number is 5ZW54. Most US cities have a WW Grainger. It's mainly for industrial customers, but they sell across the counter as well. Also try www.grainger.com Yes, you have to buy 1,000 feet of the stuff, but $85 is a small price to pay for a lifetime supply of the material. The diameter of the tubing I bought was 8". It's also available in 10, 12, and 16. I'd be afraid of going too thick, as you don't want the core to go anerobic on you. I think 10" would be fine though. Be sure to get the 4 mil thickness. The cheaper 2 mil won't cut it. You have to really pack the straw tight in the bag, and you'd rip the 2 mil bags before you got the straw packed tight enough. I originally planned to stand the logs vertical, and actually had them hanging from the ceiling. Paul Staments shows that system for oyester mushrooms in his book. I was hoping the pins would form at the vent holes I cut in the tubing, due to the air exchange, but no such luck. Pins formed EVERYWHERE!! There was no way (that I could see) to keep the log vertical out of the bag, so it became a horizontal TEK. It might be that a guy could place a piece of chain within the straw, and use this to hang the log from a hook in the ceiling. Might be risky though. The chain wouldn't have a bite until the mycellium was fully colonized through the links, and then if you bump it, you'll bruise the myc. One other point, be sure to chop the straw into very small pieces. Consider any length of straw longer than your fingers as too long. 1"-3" works fine. I'm using organic barley straw from the local feed store. It's $4.50 for a 50lb bale. Wheat straw should work just as well, it's just that in this part of the country, the farmers seem to grow barley.
By Blycat (Blycat) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 03:09 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Skyypiolot:

There are tons of places to buy poly tubing.
What do you think of these bags. they have sizes that you have reccomended.

http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.asp?model=S-1304&ref=211

http://www.papermart.com/plasticbag_welcome.htm
items: 164812, 164815, 164818.

For example on the papermart site 1000, 8" x 12" bags 4mm thick is $38.83.

There are also sites ive seen that have reclosable ziplocks poly bags.. What do you think?
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 03:29 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Bly,
The problem I see with those bags is that they're flat. Also, the length isn't enough. You waste a lot of tubing tying the knot in both ends. I cut the tubing 18" longer than I want the log to be. That way, there is room to tie the knot at each end, and have a 'tail' left over to handle the bag by while it colonizes. Try www.fungi.com I believe they sell a similar tubing, and you can get it in 20' lengths from them. It's a lot more expensive that way, but if ya just wanna check the system out, it might be a way to go.
By Blycat (Blycat) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 04:07 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
They have 8"x20" or 9"x24" or 10"x24"
The one end you wouldn't have to tie.
Doesn't matter. I don't want to take away from people talking about the TEK.
By Blycat (Blycat) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 04:09 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Ever check out the chat Sky?
By Jorneyer (Jorneyer) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 05:18 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Here is my suggestion; it is just that. Regarding the hanging of the log-- if you could put this around the log while still colonizing, then you could cut the plastic away after you hang it. Is the log sturdy enough to stand on it's end like this?
15
By F. Ungus Fox (Fungitodd) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 05:35 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Simpler yet...

Why couldn't you take some 1/4" wood dowel and cut it into say 4-6" lengths (cut 4 pieces). Then poke the dowels into the side of the log towards one of the ends. Place them 90 degrees apart, and you've made a tripod for the log; which will support it in the vertical position.
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 05:46 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Hey....I like both ideas. My preference is to have the logs vertical. They can stand on their own just fine, if ya can keep them from tipping over. Need to find a way to keep the log wrapped loosely with plastic though to keep it from drying out on the surface and killing the mycellium. Jorneyer's idea would be great, as the rope or cables could keep the plastic away from the logs. Keep thinking guys!!
By stevie ray (Gldfsh) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 06:17 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
this is fucking great i am way pumped about this tek!!!!!!!!!! if this works you are the next myco god sky!!!!!!!!!! please post the tek for all to learn !!!!!!!!! wooooooooooohooooooooooo i am doin a dance for ya man!!!!!!
By stevie ray (Gldfsh) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 06:31 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
this is fucking great i am way pumped about this tek!!!!!!!!!! if this works you are the next myco god sky!!!!!!!!!! please post the tek for all to learn !!!!!!!!! wooooooooooohooooooooooo i am doin a dance for ya man!!!!!!
By stevie ray (Gldfsh) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 06:32 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
sorry for he double postand oh yeah can we see a pic of the 74 gram fatty?
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 06:38 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
It's the first pic in the series. The one by the dollar bill. And it's not much bigger than the 'average' from the logs. The larger logs seem to make bigger mushies, but are more likely to take damage from being moved around.
By stevie ray (Gldfsh) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 06:54 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
when do you think you will have the tek ready to post? Also i was thinking i have a 31gal maid and if you took something like that and stuck 8 skewers (metal) through the bottom of the tote and stuck the logs on the skewers using one foot logs you should be able to fit 8 upright logs in that container and if they performed as weel as your 4 footer then that would be double the amount 34 lbs fresh in a 31 gal tote! just plain crazy!!!!!!!!!
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 07:32 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I don't think 4 12" logs would do as well as one 48" log. The smaller ones are just easier to handle. Larger substrate=bigger mushies.
Don't forget to leave room for the mushies to grow on the log either. Also, I'm just not a fan of terrariums. Just about everyone who uses them has contam problems, due to poor air exchange. I think the best use for that maid, is to hold the hot water when you pasteurize the straw. I work 12 hour shifts, so my time is limited. (and why I needed to be free from misting/fanning) I'll work on the tek when I get home from work. Give me a couple of days. I'd like to document the whole process for everyone, including filling the tubes with straw. It's important for folks to know just how tight you pack the straw into the plastic. I've even thought about putting my feet in the tube so I could jump up and down on the straw! Sure is good to see everyone thinking. That's how we improve our hobby.
By Scientician (Scientician) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 02:27 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Absolutely amazing, this type of ingenuity was what made this country.

Have you been starting your grain with multi-spore inncoulations, or clones? Any noted positive or negative effects on potency?

You said you've had no contams, which you believe is mainly attributed to air exchange. Do you have any type of air purifier running, or is it just room air?

I should have a fun time finding organic straw, wonder if the co-op will have that!

Brilliant, just brilliant.
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 03:48 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
There's a bit of controversy on these boards over the multi-spore inoculations, vs. prints or clones. A multi-spore innoc gives a pretty good chance of fruiting for someone just starting out, without the means to do agar work. The problem is, a print or syringe will produce literally hundreds, if not thousands of strains (or sub strains if you will) all competing for space in your substrate. Thatís why there can be so much difference in size, shape and potency of the mushrooms from a single casing or cake. Itís also why the first, second, and third flushes of many of the commercial strains look so different. They ARE different. If you can isolate a single strain on an agar dish, you can then fruit it in a substrate, and it will have free reign without competition for space. Cloning will give you a single strain as well. The problem with cloning is that any living organism can only divide its cells so many times, before Ďold ageí or in the case of mycology, senescence sets in. I use prints, and swipe the spores with a scalpel directly onto the agar. Within two days of germination, I transfer a tiny piece off the leading edge of the growing myc into a fresh Petri dish. Watch for the myc to develop on the dish and form a series of Ďfansí around the center of the growth. Each of these fans is a separate strain. Transfer a tiny piece of myc from each Ďfaní and label them 1,2,3 etc. and see which is the best strain. Then just grow it out and fruit! Mycelium is so fast growing, you could take a tiny piece of myc, the size of a grain of rice, from a Petri dish, and grow it out to over a million pounds of fresh mushrooms in six months or less, assuming one has the facilities to do it. Grain to grain transfer is the key, as well as staying ahead of senescence. Thatís how the button mushroom industry makes money selling for less than a dollar a pound.
By Mod PissyBee (Pissybee) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 04:22 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Yeah!!!! Nice job, Skyypilot! Definitely can't wait to read the details! Okay, so whaddaya wanna call the Tek? You get five stars for this one and a perfect ten!

PB
By F. Ungus Fox (Fungitodd) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Or you could keep the log horizontal, but elevate it.
Take 4 dowels and stick 2 of them in a V formation on each end of the log. Then you would have a little "straw pig".
By Jorneyer (Jorneyer) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 06:36 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
As for packing the straw-- could you find a chunk of plastic sewer pipe with the same inside diameter? It's usually green and laying around big constuction jobs. Then put the plastic inside and use some kind of smusher to pack it down. Like they use at McDonalds to pack the trash down. When it's all packed slide it out of the pipe.

my $0.02
By Max Power (Babooscha) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 01:49 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
can you remind me how this remains hydrated after birth?
By Blycat (Blycat) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 01:59 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Here's a link to another doing the same kind of thing.

http://www.namyco.org/cult/i-grow-1.htm
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 02:13 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
That guy is growing oyester mushrooms on his logs using the method Paul Stamets developed, and describes in "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms". It's what I started out to do, after reading Paul's book. Only thing is, Cubies aren't so cooperative about fruiting only in the holes you cut in the plastic. They want to fruit everywhere, so the plastic has to be cut away. That's why my logs ended up horizontal on a shelf. To answer Max's question, to keep the log hydrated after birth, I leave the plastic I cut off the log under it and wrap it around towards the cut. Just keep it loose. Cut another piece of plastic, and lay it over the top of the log. Be sure to poke lots of holes in the plastic for constant air exchange. All you're trying to do is slow down evaporation long enough to allow the log to fruit. The mushies will push the plastic out of the way as they grow, and it won't bruise or hurt them in any way. (contrary to misting, which does seem to bruise the fruits) I only flush em once, then use the straw for mulch in the garden.
By Smerd (Smerd) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 02:24 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Very exciting work. (Please be sure to cover the straw pasteurization stuff. Being an idiot, I still haven't seen a really clear explanation on that.) Very cool.
By Max Power (Babooscha) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 04:43 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
may I modify tek a bit? ..........as an alternative to cutting away plastic and letting fruit on shelf, if your using straw and manure (ideal compost material), couldnt you just dig a hole outside and plant the log? its big enough to spawn its own mycelia network.....right?


Make Love.......During War!
Peace
By Max Power (Babooscha) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 04:44 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
ps......obviously, you cut away the plastic before you burry the log
By Shroomzhilla (Shroomzhilla) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 05:02 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I must say that once the vertical/hang issue is hashed out there will be nothing stopping folks from hanging these babies from shed rafters like smoked hams
would a chicken wire cage be of any benefit? if you could get the log packed into a pvc tube and a wire sleeve to push the log out into?
mebbe a lot more hassle than its worth than the "kiss" ideology.
By Blycat (Blycat) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 05:42 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Smoked Hams.....lol....
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 06:08 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I love all the ideas!! I'd prefer to have the logs standing vertical, but I had trouble with that, so ended up with horizontal logs on a shelf. I'm in the process of writing the tek for horizontal logs, because I KNOW it works very well, but encourage all to experiment and try to find a good way to hang the logs. They'll take up so much less space if they're hanging from a ceiling joist, and if they can be spun around, picking will be a breeze too. So far, I like jorneyer's idea, that he posted the drawing for above, and I'll be experimenting along a similar theme. The main thing is to get some more folks packing these logs, so y'all can see for yourselves the huge shrooms these things grow. I start 4 days off work tomorrow, so should be able to do some writing, if I don't get too 'hungry'.
By new_shroomin_guynyc (Jay) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 07:48 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Hey rabbit a few of the people in Boomer's chat, including myself, are interested in chatting with you. Will you consider stopping by?
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 07:53 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I have the irc stuff loaded on my computer at home, but can't from here. I'm at work now. (and lucky enough to have internet access from work) I've stopped into chat a couple of times already. I will again at around 7:00AM US pacific time.
By chimpo mcdoodle (Tac) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 08:49 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
so what is this new method called guys?
By Soliver (Soliver) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 12:29 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Wow.

I'm so excited I think I may have crapped my pants . . . you've gotta get us some info on how you pack them babies - I've got a cooler full of colonized corn that I was going to case w/ verm but I think I know what has to be done now - I have seen the true light, and it is good...

Just gotta think my way around that damn plastic tubing - I did a search and found one of hip's old teks for using the same principle and stuffing the straw into 1/2 pint jars, but I don't think they're big enough to hold the moisture neccessary to leave out the terrarium and fruit in the open air - that's the part that gets me all hot and bothered . . .

hmmmmm . . . . gotta be a way around buying $85 worth of tubing - I'd do it, but I don't have a Graingers nearby. Think solly, think . . .

This rules. Can't wait to try it!!

Soliver
By Techno-hippie (Technohippie) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 12:41 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
AWESOME Silly Rabbit ... Shrooms are for kids!

Great job... Im am so excited about this one!

God this place rOx .... filled with good people with brilliant minds.

Keep up the good work

TH
By Shroomzhilla (Shroomzhilla) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 12:41 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
oh how I want to become a lumber jack if these are the logs whith which I will work
By Mod Maliki (Maliki) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 12:52 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Sky Pilots Rabbit Tek.....
They produce like rabbits
Fine job sir Kudos to you.....
By F. Ungus Fox (Fungitodd) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 04:17 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Soliver,

I have a Grainger's where I live, although I don't have the flow right now to buy an entire roll of polytubing. Maybe some of us could pool our money together and split a roll. Or I may just break down and get one when I get some cash, and I could sell like 50 foot lengths to members here. I want some soon, so I may buy a roll this week.
By Max Power (Babooscha) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 04:36 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
can someone please remind me why we are still troubling over the price at graingers when Blycat has already stated in his post that you can get a 1000 ft role from papermart for only like $40

http://www.papermart.com/plasticbag_welcome.htm

Make Love.....During War!
Peace
Max
By wongbater (Wongbater) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 04:47 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
So does that mean that the only function of a casing layer is to hold moisture? I mean why is casing necessary in all other instances I have seen except this one. I tried to fruit a vision's basket by removing it from the laundry basket and flipping it. Since the bottom is mostly covered with plastic, except where you poke holes, it gets totally covered with mycelium. But I got contaminated. for rabbits and all!
By Mr. Meeeeee (Somewhere) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 08:06 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Evolution.

thx for the contribution
By Mushroom Zen (Sno) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 09:08 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Here...

22
By Techno-hippie (Technohippie) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 09:52 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
how about a chicken wire cage to hang it in?? it would keep it from falling apart and leave plenty of places for the shroomies to grow out of.

Just a thought..

peace
TH
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 11:18 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Hungry?
23
By Goose (Fathergoose) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 01:26 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
T-rich likes wood, maybe use other material in your designs. We were thinking chicken wire cage inside of the plastic tube. After it colonized, remove plastic, it should hang like a "Ham". lol


Then cover with clear garabage bag with 1/2" holes 5" O.C.. Anyway, just our .02 cents

Nice tek Rabbit, just awesome, your another visions.

Goose

The log and mushies just looks so nice and clean
By Mushroom Zen (Sno) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 10:22 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
ok so dow rods might not work.. but stiff plastic tubing would... The point was to stick something through the top of the straw so it could be suspended... So whatever material makes the most sense that would do the job should work.

I'm thinking the myc running through the straw is strong enough to hold the log...


By Max Power (Babooscha) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 02:14 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
....drooling over log
By Max Power (Babooscha) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 02:45 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
whats the total time for this tek? start to finish, I mean from the time you knock up the jars(if you knock up jars) to the time you are trippin balls?
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 03:14 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I think it needs to be external support. I wouldn't want to hang that much weight from the mycelium. A 36" log weighs 50 lbs. I'm thinking a suspended shelf, upon which the log could stand on its end. Keep the ideas floating.

This is a VERY FAST tek Babooscha. (are you a Russian grandmother? lol) Quart jars, spawned by grain to grain transfer are fully colonized in 10 days. The logs are usually done fruiting within 3 weeks of spawning with grain. That makes 31 days, from knocking up the grain, to picking mushrooms off the straw.
By Goose (Fathergoose) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 03:40 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Mushroom Zens idea with chicken wire cage, plastic or metal dowels inserted 1/4 of the way down the log.Then place it in a plastic garbage can (35 gal. maybe), let the dowels rest on the top rim of the can. cover with plastic with holes in it. you could put holes in the garbage can also for air exchange.

Be a little harder to pick, but then on the other hand maybe the crop would favor the top where the light is.

Goose
By LeStat Deacuerdo (Stromboli) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 08:43 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
You say the log needs external support because when fully colonized, it weighs a lot. When I saw Sno's idea with the dow rods crossed through the top as a hanging apparatus, it gave me an idea. I had to reach deep into the vault for some old physics knowledge. In short, I thought of spring force vs. gravitational force. I drew up an idea that is a spinoff of Sno's with dow rods (or some other support beams) crossed through the top and the bottom end of the log. Now, the top for protruding beams can still be supported by twine or cable and suspended from the ceiling. But the bottom four supports can be attached to long narrow springs which should also be attached to the ceiling. This will reduce the force pulling on the top end of the log to prevent the top tearing off.

The only thing you need to consider is the strength of the spring. So you have a 50lb log that is at a length "x". If you put the top supports are placed at 1/5x down the log (or wherever you choose) then you still have 4/5 of the weight hanging on the bottom. So you need enough spring force to counteract 40lbs of force pulling down. You will have to figure out how to calculate spring force to length but as long as you can get negative 40lbs pulling up on the log it will balance out and not tear! (hypothetically)

I haven't built a log and I don't know how damaging this idea could be. Physically however, it will work to maintain vertical support throughout the log.

Just my 2bits. Hope it helps spawn new ideas. I'll try post a drawing if anyone is interested.

Peace and Respect,
Strom
By lyqwyd (Lyqwyd44) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 11:22 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
wow... amazing tek... =D I have an idea on how to hang the log so that it has maximum fruiting area, but im not sure if it would present contamination problems... take plastic mesh (like the stuff xmas trees are wrapped in), sterilize it, tie or seal off one end somehow, and place it inside the plastic bag. Make sure the mesh is a lot longer than the plastic. THEN pack the straw etc. Tie the mesh/plastic off, then tie the remaining mesh to a vertical support (hook or something). Theoretically the mesh will provide extra external support for the uncolonized log, and after full colonization the plastic can be cut out from around the mesh... another sheet of plastic will be necessary to cover the log while it fruits. You could prolly put support under the log too if there is too much pressure.
just a little brainwave... =P
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 03:35 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I thought about just cutting strips outta the tubing, and leaving it intact. I've just been too lazy to try it. lol
By Mod PissyBee (Pissybee) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 05:17 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Why not just take some wire like a fence that would look like T-T-T and wrap it so the top and the bottom of the T connected around the log, then hang it. Sorry if my explanation is poor but I am sure that the wire would give it enough support to keep it from coming apart and it would leave the maximum amount of straw exposed as possible. You could loosely wrap plastic around it or drape a huge clear garbage bag over the top to keep in humidity. If anyone understands what I am saying, maybe you could draw a diagram to show what I mean better. Or you could wrap wire around the log like it would look in the middle of a spring. Sort of like what it looks like with your arm in the center of a slinky. Then just tighten the curls at the ends so it wouldn't slide, to keep it stable. Then just hang it from one end. Any idea why that wouldn't work?
PB

Like this?
By Blycat (Blycat) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 06:22 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Here's my shot at how to hang it up. It's pretty much the same as Jorneyer's. I don't like the idea of plywood so it's changed to some kind of PVC cap or tupperware bowl. Also the depth of the cap will allow the log to sit more safetly. Obviously the least amount of depth as possible would be best as to not cover up surface area of the log. Strings or rods will be used to attach the two caps together. If the length of the strings are made slightly longer than the Log, than the LOg should sit in nicley.


BC
By Blycat (Blycat) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 06:24 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
27
By stevie ray (Gldfsh) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 03:40 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
o.k. Here is my problem with hanging the log by a wire . It will sway giving the log more stress and a higher chance of breaking apart. What I was thinking is building or buying a shelving unit that you can change the distance between shelves to fit your needs. (depending on the size of your log) Now you will need to make two metal stakes (i.e. skewers preferably something that won't rust) and attach thru the shelves the bottom one pointing up and the top on pointing down. I think 8-10" should be good for a 3 ft. log. Now borrowing part of Bly's idea get two 10" pvc caps, drill a hole in the center and slide one over the bottom stake. Then slide the log onto the skewer then put the other one on top of the log holding the log slide the top shelf down onto the log sticking the skewer thru the center of the log. Secure the top shelf and there you have it. Depending on the shelf you could do more on each shelf. The purpose for the pvc caps is so you can spin the log when it is time to harvest. You could do it without the pvc caps but i don't think it would spin.
What do you guys think?
By Jorneyer (Jorneyer) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 04:43 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I am not crazy about plywood either, blycat. I think it would rot and breed mildew. But it is cheap and plentiful, if the user wanted to paint it.
A really big stainless steel mixing bowl would probably match your concept, without breaking.
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 06:37 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Plywood would work fine, and I'm gonna try it. Just put a plate or something between the straw log and the plywood. The log can support itself from one end easily. (the end it sits on that is) I like your drawing Jorneyer, Something like that with a plywood disk top and bottom, with threaded rods with washers and nuts to connect the two disks solidly together would be great. Perhaps pass the all-thread rods through pvc pipe, so the sharp threads don't ever touch the logs. I've seen the logs start to dry out a bit, and the last few mushies seem to be smaller. I think I'm gonna build a log with an inner resevoir made outta 1/2" pvc with a hundred or so small holes (1/16") drilled in it. It would be placed down the middle of the log during construction, with one end capped, and the other end left open so a coupling could be slid on after the bag is birthed.
By Jorneyer (Jorneyer) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 08:00 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
that threaded rod is called 'reddi rod' and it may even come in stainless form. Usually in 36" lengths I think. Grainger would have it.
By Nunya F. Bizz (Still_Stoned) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 11:02 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Why not forget about the hanging tactics and put two risers under each end lying down. A 2x4 or 4x8 sounds like an idear. this will give more room to fruit. figure out something to do with the plastic.....just seems like you are all loosing focus on this hanging bizz....the important part here is the tek blueprint.
My first post....first thing on this site that I haven't seen on 4-5 other sites already.
By mycomaniac (Mycomaniac) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 05:11 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I was thinkin, and this is what I came up with. Find some rod to the length of what your tube will be. Conduit probably will work. Get a board that is thick enough for the weight (1/2" to 3/4") and big enough to support the log on one end. Drill a hole in the center of the board large enough for the rod. Put either a washer and nut on the bottom of the rod, or some other attachment (collar of some sort) so the board will slide down the top rod to the bottom and stay in place. Take the top of the rod and come up with an attachment to the ceiling. You could put a swivel joint for easy harvesting. Pick up freshly made tube, and carefully slide rod through center (try hard to stay in the very center) of the tube. The bottom board will support the weight, and the rod will keep the small horizontal force balanced, as long as it is in the center of the log. The plastic will keep it together until the mycelium takes over.
28just my .02
By Mushroom Zen (Sno) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 05:18 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
bet that would work... just no wood...
By Mod PissyBee (Pissybee) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 05:21 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Yeah, instead of wood, use a hollow pvc pipe with holes throughout the length of the tube and pack it with vermiculite, pasteurized dung, or something that holds water, then you can rehydrate the log as much as needed. Any thoughts on that?
PB
By Mushroom Zen (Sno) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 06:09 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
sounds good... hrm...
By hershmire (Hershmire) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 09:02 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Hmm, seems they've been doing this in the legit mushroom business for years. You're work is impressive nonetheless.

I found some (much) cheaper plastic tubing in smaller quantities on Froogle designed specifically for this task. They also have smaller widths, for more conspicuous operations.
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 10:45 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Hersh,
That's actually about 5 times the price of ww grainger, it's just in a smaller quantity. Good find.
By Jim DeGriz (Prisoner1) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 07:26 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
this is something similar that I have seen with some comercial opperations over the years, they live in a bag intol they are ready to fruit, poke some holes and shitakii or oysters pop out from every hole....I gotta commend you on the adaptation...how long had you thought about or experiment before you succeeded....just curiosity
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 07:50 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Ya gotta cut a few holes when you make the log, to provide air exchange. Paul Stamets recommends an arrowhead, and that's what I use. Poke holes every 3 inches or so. That lets the CO2 out, while keeping (most of) the moisture in during colonization. They don't fruit just at the holes though. You have to cut the plastic off after the first few pins form, so the fruits can grow. The first log or two I built didn't produce much better than the first vision's laundry basket or two I did. I found out the hard way, that you MUST chop the straw up really small, and you MUST pack it down really tight. With those two lessons learned, success arrived.
By tate may (Rcklssabndn) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 07:15 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Rabbit, I was inspired by your idea and came across something that might work as well as the poly bags, and possibly by reusable along with being an absolute visual beauty... how about those 30" inflatable pool rings...you can get translucent ones for 1.50 at walmart. and with the added structural integrity of the plasitic you could pre fab support legs and such to it. just cut holes stuff with straw (maybe cut a slit to stuff through that can then be shoelaced shut) anyways I bought all the stuff already and will attempt it...if you see any underlying prob's let me know...

Donut's mmmm....
30" donuts hmmm..
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 08:45 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I can't wait to see it. Just be sure to cut the straw really short, and STUFF it in there really tight...Did you say Krispy Kreem?
By Dean (Colt122) on Sunday, April 20, 2003 - 01:04 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
This is probably not worth mentioning but since I have An extra one here goes.What about a Bar-B-Q rotisserary,its got claws on both ends, also has a motor....? Could any one
speculate the outcome?By the way I plan to try A log in the next couple days(very inspiring)Thanks!
By tate may (Rcklssabndn) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 08:17 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Rabbit, It was a hopeful idea, but as I was stuffing the 30" donut it became apparent that it was just to much work, I ended up exhausting about an 1/8 of my bale of straw, and cut it up by hand into pieces an inch or less in size. so Basically I've got about a 38" sausage I inoculated with 8 pint jars of brf. One tip for anyone wanting to cut straw small and fast, keep the straw in the bale all tightly packed the use a large serated knife and slice of inch sections like carving a turkey. Anyways I hope it all worksout....I'm sure theres going to be a windfall of log pics in about 3 weeks.
By Mushroom Zen (Sno) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 08:47 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Um, WW Grainger. Part number is 5ZW54... yeah, the one in my town said that they wont sell across the counter. You have to have an account with them. Kinda sucks. Don't know where else to get a big ass roll of tubing.
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 09:22 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
They always sell to me. Tell em you are starting a shipping business and need an account then. Otherwise, www.fungi.com It's more expensive there, but they have it as well.
By Mushroom Zen (Sno) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 09:23 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
hrm, yeah I got a form from them, but they want bank references and all that garb... blech
By Smerd (Smerd) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 02:10 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Does this look like the same stuff - http://www.universalplastic.com/default_010c.htm - item TC4-8? It says 4 mil, 1,075 feet, $27.50, polyethelene tubing - looks the same and substantially cheaper.
By Smerd (Smerd) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 02:18 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Oops. I misread the last column on that page. It's "height," not price. Sorry. Still looks like the same stuff, though. No prices listed, alas.

Hey, tate may - did the doughnut work out? I don't understand what you mean by it being a hopeful idea yet too much work. Wouldn't a sausage be just as successful as the whole doughnut?
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 02:30 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
That looks like the stuff, but I didn't see a price. The 27.20 is 'height' Also, it looks like they sell it in 'width', which is probably the lay flat width of the tubing. The 'lay flat' width is 1/2 the circumference. You'll have to adjust the figures. I'd go with 10" diameter. Now, since (pi)D = circumference, you want 3.14 x 10 = 31.4 The 'lay flat' width would then be 1/2 that(15.7"), or 16" which is the closest match. Somebody check my math. It's beer:thirty here.
By not *really* a Jedi (Mycofile) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 05:05 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Rodger, are you getting multiple flushes from these logs? My past, somewhat limited experience with uncased straw was that it was a one hit wonder, no further flushes to speak of.

Great innovation, just seems like a lot of work if you only get one flush. Still, it's a great addition to library of methods now available. Thanks.
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 07:09 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
One flush that's three to five times the amount of any other method that I know of, in half or less of the time. A lot of work, yes.
By Hippie3 (Admin) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 02:28 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
archive material.
nice work, well thought-out and illustrated,
a great addition to the vaults.
By tate may (Rcklssabndn) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 05:37 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Smerd, The curvature and the thickness of the plastic made it almost impossible to insure I packed as well as Rabbit instructs so I could only go a little over half way around while making sure to pack it correctly
By not *really* a Jedi (Mycofile) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 07:22 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Rodger, how about trying to dunk a log to get a second flush? Maybe a bleach dunk? Give it a shot, I bet it would work.
By Jason Sheets (Geaker) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 07:54 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I think I found a nother good place for the poly bag tubing at www.saket.com good price for a lot.Roger can you give me your thoughts on this one and wich one would you go with.
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 10:18 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Looks good. Just find out if the sizes are 'lay flat' width, or diameter of the tubing.

You can dunk and get a small second flush. It's just that straw pretty much uses up all it's energy on the first flush, and you're better off starting a new project.
By Mycofile (Mycofile) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 10:54 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I hear you. But just for further thinking on optimizing what already seems like a kick ass method, I bet it doesn't use up all of it's energy, but rather it is a moisture related problem.

My reasoning is that 50 pounds of straw, with comparable surface are, if cased in a tray would yield several if not many flushes. Assuming contams are kept at bay of course. So, we know that there is enough "energy" in the straw, as long as moisture is more available.

My guess is that dunking for a second flush isn't as productive as the first not due so much to a lack of moisture however. I say it's more due to mycelial damage due to drying during first flush.

Possible solutions (again assuming one isn't happy with the method as it stands).

1. Gradual supply of moisture, provided by some type of moist core (verm possibly). That would be pretty hard to build into the log though. Perhaps a small diameter perforated pvc tube could be centered in the log as it's made, and filled with moist verm. Or just a normal pvc tube centered in the log as it's built, then filled with verm, then remove the tube (assuming things aren't too packed to remove the tube at all). More trouble, but could allow for multiple flushes.

2. Some type of slow "drip" style irrigation. Stamets mentions these briefly in one of the books, but gives no specifics that I remember, nor heavily endorses the idea as very promising.

3. Intermittent contact with moist perlite from below. When I grew cakes, dunking hadn't been invented. I rehydrated cakes by setting them directly on moist perlite until the second flush pins came in. If the cakes weren't removed from perlite at that time, fruits were soggy. Perhaps if the log could simply bet set on perlite for a few days post harvest, and removed as soon as new pins were spotted, second flushes would be better.

4. Some way to keep the humidity higher throughout the growth period. Like cake conditions. 99% humidity. Even at this, you would still likely have to rehydrate via perlite or dunking based on my previous experience with un-cased straw. Also, you would likely loose the beauty of this tek's no terrerium, open air, low contam virtues.

5. Scratching. Not related to moisture really, but damage from drying surfaces. Cakes which have drying damage can be encouraged to fruit more by thoroughly roughing up the surface with nails or forks. Scratching is also commonly practiced when growing oysters on uncased straw. As in number four, I'd combine this with dunking or some other rehydration method.

6. Maybe come up with some type of a double ended casing type idea? Lay the log on a ridge of moist verm, maybe even run a small ridge of verm along the top of the log. Not sure about this one though, just brainstorming.

7. Or, this is a big or, go back to what made the PF tek so successful uncased. Mixing moist verm in with the straw. You could add a lot of verm without really diluting the nutrient density of the log as the verm would fill in spaces between the straw for the most part. The verm could even be saturated with a contam resistant, pasteurized nutrient, such as worm casting tea, to provide even additional nutrients. This idea has lots of promise if successful, but it also switches things around radically with the core principles of the method and all...

Just seems to me that most people when trying this for the first time might as well try for a second flush. I understand that once you get a hang for it and have your systems up, you might as well just replace the logs with fresh ones, but most people will have some lag time there on their first attempts before they have a second log ready to replace the first one.

What do you think rodger? Have you tried any of these other methods? If not, what sounds promising to you?
By Hippie3 (Admin) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 11:18 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
i'd bet a good long dunk would be the easiest and most effective option. that alone often triggers new mycellia and i'd agree, there's still plenty of nutes left, the grain alone is still largely untapped.
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 11:40 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I'm working on an inner res tek as we speak. The only reason for this is that I've noticed the last few mushies are a tad smaller than the first, due to drying out of the log. The problem with even trying for a second flush/dunking etc is that it's nearly impossible to move the log without damage. It has no container to hold it rigid, so if you allow the log to flex or bend when you move it, you tear the hell out of the mycelium. The other problem is that after a flush, the mycelium naturally declines in vigor, and this allows the contams a chance to take hold. I think it's just more efficient to get rid of the log after first flush, and have a second one coming along right behind it. You're not wasting the log...Put it in your garden as mulch. Prob get an outdoor flush in the fall.
By Hippie3 (Admin) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 11:42 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
afterthought.
a variation on the above.
what if...
one took a section of plastic pipe, say 4-6 inches in diameter and 2-3 feet long.
drill several holes over its' length for ventilation.
stuff with straw layered with grain from one end to the other. one could really pack it in tight.
like your log but in a pipe instead of a baggie.
just a thought...
or was that option already mentioned ?
kinda stoned right now...
sems likely once fully colonized you could slide it out of the pipe...

ah crap. i see journeyer already posted the idea above,
good thinking. i'm a bit slow sometimes.
By TFF (Myca_Tst) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 12:04 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
that would work good,
say you took a 6 inch wide piece of pvc , and you
could make it however long you wanted, put two caps on each end with the straw inside.
the big problem is you wouldnt know when the mycleium is fully colinized.. guess you could estimate the time
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 12:06 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Give it a try! One thing. How will you know if it's fully colonized, unless you can find clear pipe? I actually thought of doing one of those to look like a xmas tree, using lots of tee's and 45's. Was gonna drill the holes with a 7/8" hole saw, so the fruits could come out the holes. Just leave it in the pvc. If ya use black pvc pipe, then it should only fruit at the holes where there is light/air available. Sounds like your case of the 'mad scientist' is flairing up again hip.
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 12:08 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
lol myca. gmta
By Smerd (Smerd) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 12:31 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I followed up with http://www.universalplastic.com/default_010c.htm - item TC4-8 (gee I'm obsessed w/this plastic tubing). It's $52 per roll. Turns out the "height" is supposed to be "weight." It's a typo. As the shipping weight of this is 27.5 lbs. and that of Grainger equivalent is 28 lbs (their catalog), I'll bet it's the same stuff. Also, it is 8" diameter. I'm still not sure I need 1,075 feet, though. That's one hell of a tube. We need a co-op.

Hey rodger, I saw in another post that you had success with grocery store vegetable bags. The Oyster mushies looked great, by the way. Did it take special care, given the plastic's mil? Just wondering.

Thanks again for a great tek... I can't wait to give it a whirl. I think I'll go w/shorter logs, though.

Oh, and welcome back, Hippie! Great to see you again.
By Mushroom Zen (Sno) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 01:10 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I was thinking not putting the straw in the pipe... get a 1-2" dia. pipe, drill holes up and down it, and put in the middle of the "log" so that when you're done with the flush you can pour water or hook a cool mist to it or something to re-hydrate it. Wouldn't that work? Might be able to get a couple more flushes anyway...
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 01:12 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Yes, gotta be careful stuffing it. If it were any bigger, it would need much thicker plastic. It was just something to try, and I gotta experiment with stuff. Oyster mushies rule! The o'lady's in the kitchen right now. Shes got them in a skillet with a white wine cream sauce. It smells so good, I'm drooling on the darn keyboard.

On another note, if it truly is 8" diameter, (not 8" lay flat width), that's a cheaper price than Graingers. Good find. I'd still recommend going with 10" though.
By Hippie3 (Admin) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 02:48 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
get a 1-2" dia. pipe, drill holes up and down it, and put in the middle of the "log" so that when you're done with the flush you can pour water or hook a cool mist to it or something to re-hydrate it
a section of garden hose might be the ticket there, they make a soaker-hose that leaks along its' entire length meant to drip irrigate gardens...
By jhon plemel (Mm_Maker) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 02:52 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
um so why cant you put your log in a big fruting chamber and have it set up so the mist blows in with fresh air and out the other side, so its constantly circulating? would that work?
By Mod PissyBee (Pissybee) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 03:26 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Uh, I already mentioned the hollow PVC pipe with holes and verm to let the water rehydrate the log from the inside, remember? Back when we were talking about how to hang it, I figured that you could hang it and have an inner reservoir to help you get more out of it.

Quote:
By Mod PissyBee (Pissybee) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 05:21 pm: Edit


Yeah, instead of wood, use a hollow pvc pipe with holes throughout the length of the tube and pack it with vermiculite, pasteurized dung, or something that holds water, then you can rehydrate the log as much as needed. Any thoughts on that?
PB

Anyone think that would work?
PB
By Hippie3 (Admin) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 03:44 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
a slightly different concept than what i was talking about in my post originally,
but an option in line with the rehydration theme.
i dunno tho', i'm still thinking dunking the entire log 'as is' is proly going to be easiest,
the pipe can hold the weight and still keep the log intact and moveable.
my experience has been, in general, that you get better results from a massive short rehydration like a dunk than with a steady drip feed. the steady addition of water into the core would, imo, tend to create anerobic conditions near the source, proly killing off the mycellia over time.
it's better, imo, to get it really wet then let it dry. in addition, a dunk would deposit the water more to the outer rim instead of the core. the outer rim is what dries fastest anyway and would seem to be where moisture is most needed, not near the core where evaporation is very slow.
By Mod PissyBee (Pissybee) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 03:51 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Okay, so how about a hollow PVC with holes to help hold it together, for transportation and for dunking? The holes would allow drainige from the center so it wouldn't get too water logged and then you could rehydrate the whole log at once. Or is that what you were sort of talking about? Nice to see ya back Hip, always nice to here a bit of your wisdom!
PB
By Hippie3 (Admin) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 03:55 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
yeppers, that's what i'm conceptualizing about.
i can see little 4 inch wide 2 feet long sections of straw-stuffed pvc like little sausages lined up on shelves. inch-wide holes bored every couple inches for fruitbodies, no real need to see inside anyway, just let it do it's thing until shrooms form at the holes.
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 04:31 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I can see next weeks New York Times financial page. . .

"New York(AP/UPI) The price of straw futures have risen dramatically on the big board in recent days. It seems that every store in America has sold out its entire stock of straw to 'freaky looking' people for as yet undetermined uses. . ."
By Jesse James (Spacecowboy) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 01:09 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
I like the chicken wire idea to hold the substrate together. Do you think nylons or fishnet leggings would work too for the smaller sized logs?

I was also thinking about using one of the plastic closets with metal frames you can buy at Wally World or the K as a humidity tent. You could hang the logs inside and line the bottom with wet perlite. Then check on it twice a day to air it out and give it a good misting.

Or you could rig a humidifier to it and cut holes in the bottom to allow for CO2 and O2 gas exchange.
By Hippie3 (Admin) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 02:58 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
the closet set-up is pretty sweet,
i had one.
By rodger rabbit (Skyypilot) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 06:57 am: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Just keep it flooded with fresh air, to keep the contaminants from getting a foothold. Nothing is sterile with the logs, so you need lots of airlow. I was looking at a healthy piece of mycelium from a log the other day through the microscope. It had a dozen or so bacteria spores, and a few dozen mold spores, just waiting to germinate, all in an area of mycelium the size of a grain of rice. Scared the hell outta me.


By TFF (Myca_Tst) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 02:12 pm: Edit -------------------------------------------------
Those of you that are still searching for the plastic tubing, there is this website that I found http://www.mushroompeople.com/cat2000/frames.html
Polyethylene tubing for growing mushrooms in straw or sawdust. 12" diameter, not perforated.
$13/20' $179/500'