|& Flat Cakes & Beds||-|
|By Maliki vision seaker (Maliki) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:41 pm:|
I was wondering if any of our more experianced cultvators had tried something in this area.
I belive ive got it pretty well worked out in my head. Just need some advice on a few things .... Heres the procces ive come up with... Well here goes.
Ok K-Mart here we come. First I plan on buying 2 5 foot Kidde pools, the plastic kind without slide. The first one will be used to hold the temp of the pool in the 86 range for incubation. Basicaly its just a huge fishtank jar heater. I planned on spacing the pools out with 2 inch pvc pices cut 3 inches tall put them in the bootom pool standing up. Cut 2 small holes in the side of the pool so they fit the tank heaters tight push the tank heaters thru and seal with copper rtv from the parts store (made for high heat) and simmply fill to the apropreate level with water. The incubation Phase of construction complete. This bottom pool would be set down ontop of styrofoam for insulation from the ground and posibaly the side's of the pool wrapped as well.
I figured I would use one of the hay teks probably OT'S tek. Inoculate with pf jars and all.
I plan on making a small clean room to do the inoclulation of the hay in the pool. Just going to wrap off a section in my basement with Bisquine Plastic Tarp Love the stuff.
Clorox the air inside the tent and let it settle well then clorox again. Then spray the spawn pool completly down on the inside pool surface with pure alcohol and let evaporate. (note to self turn off furnace) NO BIG BADA BOOOOOM
Lay all the spawned hay into the pool around an inch or 2 deep Cover the pool with plastic tarping and duckt tape. Heat bootom pool to 86F for incubation let it run completly thru droop temps and fruit. The one main question i have here is how much does the straw compact affter pasturizing . I was planning on layering the pool with 4 inches or so then colecting and pasturizing
it. Does a 50% compresion sound correct???? Did I miss anything here... Input please
|By Vitti (Vitticeps) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:44 pm:|
How will you maintain humidity?
|By Vitti (Vitticeps) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:45 pm:|
Oh, and ya 50% is pretty close... maybe just 40%.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:50 pm:|
You want to straw packed as tightly as possible. It packs down better wet. Lay it out dry, 4 inches is going to be a little deep. 2-1/2 - 3 inches is going to be plenty of straw if you press it down and measure. It will contam anyway before the shrooms use up four inches of substrate. Figure on cropping out the substrate in two flushes.
|By Maliki vision seaker (Maliki) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 07:00 pm:|
Im sorry i didnt be more exact what i ment was lay the straw in the pool before pasturizing to get an idea on how much hay to use . The 4 inches was figured before the pasturzing , because i thought it would be a 50% compaction ratio. Wich would leave me with 2 inches wet packed straw. Wich is exactly what you recomend in the archives. Ive done my reading I spend 7 hours a nite in this site just reading the archives . Laptop at work
In a machine shop . Plenty Of time for nothing. ....Nan the archive glitch its a scripting error line 13 char 1 ..error object expected ... As far as humidity
I was hoping the plastic cover would hold in ample moisture from the cake its self . Or i could just plug a cool mist humidifier into the side of the pool no biggie. ......I was also thinking of leting the hay spawn in seperate containers then layering into the pool to finish matting together.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 07:26 pm:|
If you measure the thickness of the dry straw while presssing down on it with some weight, you will get about that depth, or more, in the straw bed when everything is said and done.
Thanks for the feedback on the Archive material
You know I don't think I would worry much about the humidity. Get yourself a cheap pressure garden sprayer and use that to mist. Throw a cover on it... You will be fine as long as it is reasonably air tight. I have done many a bed in those large 'maid and Serlite tubs... An occasional misting is all they require really.
Spawning... Now that is going to be tricky. You want to be really clean, but you will be climbing around in the pool... Spawning straw in separate containers is an option I suppose... But I would not let the spawn run start while in separate containers. Maybe spawn in a big 'maid, then after the spawn is well mixed, dump the tub into the pool and pack it down. I would reserve a few pounds of spawn to dust off the top after everything is laid... And I would cover it with a clean plastic drop cloth and weigh it down with some boards or something to compress things.
The spawn run is going to have to be fast. You are talking in the neighborhood of 20+ lbs of spawn. Quite a project. Be sure to post pics!
|By Kman (Kman) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 08:17 pm:|
this thread just gave me an idea. I'm sure someone has tried it and can tell me if it works or not. Is there any reason why you couldn't just make one large flat cake out of a rubber maid and just put the lid on. Sort of a chronic tek on a much larger scale. I have a maid thats like 3' wide x 4' lond x 8" tall. I have be growing flat cakes in this with great success, but why not just make the whole thing one cake? Just kinda typing as I'm thinking, but I think I will try it and let you guys know.
Anybody have any suggestions?
|By onediadem (Onediadem) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 08:26 pm:|
LMAO. I love it. Wish I had room for swimming pool set ups. LOl. Hell, for that matter, someone got an extra bathroom with a bathtub not being used? You could visqueen off the enclosure for humnidity. Cleanup would be breeze too. The possibilities are endless!!
Please let us know how you do with the pools. I would love to see pics too,
|By Maliki vision seaker (Maliki) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:25 am:|
Actualy I was rather serious abought doing this ive got all but the Two pools . GODS BE DAMN winter in chain stores no pools to be found yet . But i spoted fins and masks and stuff in boxes at K-Mart so its just around the corner. I typed up a complete tek from begining to end . It will be exactly how i do it. And NAN yep that was my next concern i came up with at work . I would just use some plastic wraped ply wood was abought the best solution i could come up with other than heavy diamond plate mesh. So plywood it is..Ive got the whole post writen already anybody want to see it from begining to end ???
|By Nan (Nanook) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:51 am:|
You are kidding me right?
|By Ryan Kelleher (Djkaus17) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:55 am:|
Personally Id love to see it... Hehe I like you stay up all night reading the archives... At least till 4am everymorning..
|By Chronic007 (Chronic007) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 12:22 pm:|
I hear that. It's four right now and I'm still going strong! I would love to watch your progress on the project please keep us up to date.
|By quote: (Quote) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:34 pm:|
i'd bet money it won't work,
way too much material, it's bound to
contaminate somewhere before it fruits.
|By Maliki vision seaker (Maliki) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:33 pm:|
Ok well then all i have to do is wait for the pools to show up in the stores . The amount of material is alot but thats wht I wanted to grow out a large amount of hay in seperate containers , befor it goes into the pool to help cut the time line down some on the fruiting wait. So in a few weeks ill be posting pictures of it all. Im willing to spend the 20 bucks it will cost me so now i just wait for the pools.......
Ihope it works. Ryan dont take what i said as a slam it wasnt ment in that manner. Glad to see you do read the archives THERE AWESOME
|By Ryan Kelleher (Djkaus17) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:41 pm:|
No slam taken just just agreeing with the fact that the archives are addictive
|By Maliki vision seaker (Maliki) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 05:34 pm:|
KIDDIE POOL FLAT CAKE TEK
1= 2 Child pools, the plastic ones without the slide
2= 2 Fishtank heaters adjustable ones.
3= 4 feet of 2 inch PVC pipe cut into 3 inch lengths or there abought
4= 1 tube of copper RTV sealant
5= A few large pieces of Styrofoam for under the incubation pool to act as insulation from the ground
6= 1 Roll insulation to wrap around the side of the incubation pool. ...(Optional if needed)
7= 3 10'x20' rolls of Biscayne plastic tarping or at least 6 10'x10' standard tarps. The plastic rolls are cheaper.
8= 1 Large bottle of rubbing alcohol in a spray bottle "for disinfecting pool"
9= 5 Feet or 3/4 or 5/8 hose for connecting the cool mist humidifier and setting up a gas drain
10= 1 bail of straw preferably wheat straw
11= 1 or 2 large pots 20 quart or so size should be plenty
12= 7 PF 1/2 pints 110% colonized
13= Cool mist humidifier for humidity control and gas exchange
14= Spawn chambers for inoculating hay before transfer to pool
15= Oyster shells for PH buffer or lime, oyster shells work better as they degrade slower
16= Large spray bottle for disinfecting air inside tent room Lysol Bleach whatever
17= 1 Box of push tacks for hanging plastic tarps
18= 2 rolls of duct tape (Love It)
19= Latex gloves and CLEAN lint free clothing dust mask and hair cover
20= One roll of nylon screen
21= A few pieces of plywood or other rigid material . For compressing the hay in pool.
1= Hand saw or pipe cutter for cutting PVC spacers to size
2= Drill with a 3/4' bit or so
3= A sharp knife and a round file for getting holes to an exact fit
4= A Sharpie Permanent Marker
First cut the PVC into 3 inch or so long pieces to be used as risers under the spawn pool. This allows for good water movement as well as room for the fishtank heaters to be underneath the pool where theyíre effective. To mount the fish tank heaters use the sharpie marker to trace the outside of the tank heater tube on the side of the pool where you want them , then simply use the drill to cut the holes in the side of the pool ,
MAKE SURE NOT TO MAKE THE WHOLES TO BIG OR YOU NEED A NEW POOL.
You want the wholes to be abought an 1/2 inch up from the bottom of the pool so the heat transfers to the water and not to the plastic of the pool. Use the file to open the holes a little at a time until the tank heaters fit tight. Once you get them to fit in the holes snug seal them in place with the RTV sealant.
Now take the 3 inch tall risers you cut and place the evenly spaced inside the pool . Remember there being used to support the spawn pool so place the accordingly , to give even support. Use a small dab of the RTV to affix the risers to the bottom of the pool so they donít role away when you put the spawn pool on top of them. Let all this dry for at least 12 hours . Now fill the pool full of water you want no leakís , water does damage to stuff. No leakís? ............GOOD JOB.....
First cover the ceiling with the plastic tarping then hang the walls and lastly lay the floor down. All the seams should be taped with the duct tape the corners and the floor and ceiling seams as well. Leave one corner open or make a slit for you to pass through either way make a piece of plastic that will cover this opening.
While your working with the plastic tarping cut a piece thatís big enough to cover the pool with extra hanging over the sides, so you have enough to push the plastic down onto the straw to compact it, and enough to still tape the sides down all the way around the pool.
Use the thumbtacks to hang the ceiling and walls if needed. Once the room is completed saturate the inside of it with disinfectant. ALSO put your spawn pool in the room as well but with it upside down so it doesnít catch all the disinfectant in it, also put the plastic cover you made under the pool as well. Let all that disinfectant settle to the floor , while this is happening itís a good time to go change into your CLEAN
clothes that you set aside. I think one of the plastic rain suits at K-Mart would be perfect you could even spray yourself down with disinfectant. But probably not completely necessary. Turn the pool up on its side and soak with the alcohol spray bottle make sure it all gets covered by the alcohol spray. Let this evaporate for a few minutes. While its evaporating you can get all the other materials ready that will be used. Also now is the time to put on your hair covering, dust mask and gloves.
Once the pool has dried out it's time to start layering in the pre spawned hay form the separate spawn chambers. Mix in some fresh uncolonized but pasteurized straw just to help in the matting process . Be careful to lay the straw even in the pool and make the entire layer around 2 inches thick or so not really any thicker. As the pool will probably contam before you get a 3rd flush. Unless you keep up on the PH level with adjusted water and keep it as close to flat 7 as you can. Tric seems to like lower levels so beat it if you can.
Cover the pool with the plastic that you cut to fit the pool while putting up the room and lay the weighted board or other similar heavy weights on top of the plastic to compact the straw , use tape to hold it down.
Also now connect the cool mist humidifier to the port that you made for it but leave it off for a few days until every thing recovers a bit then turn it on for a short while each day until you see primordia then turn it on 24/7 makes for good gas exchange in the pool . And be sure the vent tube is way down close to the surface of the cake so the gasses are pushed up and out of it , Inserted through the side of the pool or the top plastic cover.
NOTE Be sure to turn off any ignition sources for the flammable fumes the Lysol and alcohol.
Furnace hot water heater and the such. NO BIG BOOMS
I was up in the air on wich teaks to use thought it out for a while and decided there all pretty much the same other than additives that people like to add in recipes.
Basically I decided to go with the Pasteurized straw Tek that Quo reprinted from myco-tek . The only changes I made where to the PH levels to keep them stable for as long as possible . I added a little lime and some oyster shell for for a longevity PH control. So I followed the wheat straw prep tek that quote posted from myco-tek. The only additions where the PH buffers. The hay was inoculated using PF style jars , I imagine bird seed and grain teaks would work the same for inoculation. All of this straw was then put into 7 separate containers . And allowed to grow out . The containers where called shoeboxes at K-Mart 88cents each.
Clear plastic with just a simple top. These shoe boxes where separated in the middle layer by a nylon screen
Used to separate the bin into 2 layers. When birthing , The layers where separated by simply pealing them apart into the separate layers . The divider is used because it allows the cake to be split into two 2Ē layers.
All 14 separate layers that you now have are plenty to cover the entire bottom of the pool except for a few seams and the unspawned hay is used to fill these in. Now itís just a wait and watch thing..
Now remeber I havent Done this yet. Iknow its written in the past format and all .
I will be trying this though so we will see how it goes probably in 3 or 4 weeks or so.
|By quote: (Quote) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 05:40 pm:|
sounds like fun.
|By Fishy1 (Fishy1) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:36 pm:|
I get the quickest spawn run on straw when using PF cakes blended into a powder. If you used 100 cakes or so, the bed would be done in 3-5 days , if you get lucky.
Be sure every cake is good- otherwise 1 bad one can ruin a whole lotta effort!!
A pool of trich would be a health hazard! Get rid of the whole thing if it funks out.
Best of luck--------fishy1
|By Delekhan J. Delekhan (Delekhan) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:41 pm:|
So, as a title, it's really a toss up between the
KIDDIE POOL FLAT CAKE TEK
KIDDIE CESSPOOL OF CONTAMINATION TEK
|By onediadem (Onediadem) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:24 am:|
"KIDDIE CESSPOOL OF CONTAMINATION TEK"
I swear, all of you are fabulous for a great laugh.
And Maliki- I am so there with positive thoughts for your success!
Please, keep us posted.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:18 am:|
It would be a huge bed. But I have done some pretty decent sized beds. It make take more than one attempt to make it work, and you have to found such a fruiting on a pyramid of solid well run Tek all the way to the top.
It can be done. It takes Tek skills and the will to develop it. I don't mind posting postive on this topic. I had more failures than successes in my first 20 or so straw bins. But my Tek kept improving, I practiced it... Soon I could count on every bin producing at least one excellent flush. I was able to eliminate failures.
Now Maliki may ultimately decide that this project is too much work and it may never get out of the outline stage. But I am willing to listen to his ideas without making fun, if he is willing to listen to my straw experience (and I have my notes).
1) You need to develop a clone strain that colonizes straw agressively and fruits heavy. This means practicing on smaller straw beds with jars of spawn germinated from spores until you find an outstanding cluster of mushrooms. Clone the largest shroom, otherwise even a success will be largely failure because there are many spore germinations that result in mycelial growth but no fruits. Don't even think about this unless you use an agressive clone...
a) Once you have your clone, you should not change your Tek. You should use the same type straw and casing.
2) Once you have your clone developed you are going to need lots & lots of jars, or quite a few larger jars, of spawn. I highly recommend grinding PF cakes with worm castings (see Straw Tek Tips).
|By Fishy1 (Fishy1) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:53 am:|
Listen to Nanook...exactly what I would do.
A clone ALWAYS HELPS!! Forgot to mention that. I would definately recommend using worm castings in the mix with the straw too. If ya have the BIG PCooker, I would cook the straw in it, and dry worm poop too. Get it clean to begin with.
And case it consistently (depth)...and with lots of lime....and a good texture. I am PCing some coir, coarse vermic, perlite, and lime right now....
Ya might put a pvc "pole" in the center of the tub, and use a plastic dropcloth like a TEEPEE.
Use a humidifier to keep moist....
and like I said....spawn spawn spawn spawn.....and watch out for grain spawn if you are not too experienced w/ it..
Ya might check out the "THANKS OT" thread near here...this could easily turn a dozen jars into 100. It works great if ya have a flowhood or big box...
try it>> fishy1
|By onediadem (Onediadem) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 03:12 am:|
I wasnt pokin fun, I promice, some of the sayings kill me tho. I am definately rooting for you.
|By An guy (Boomer) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 03:22 am:|
that pvc tent pole has me thinking-
What about a pole of bunt cake pans? like 5 or 6 stacked, with some pieces of larger pipe between them for spacers?
Just make a buncha bundt cakes.......use the viscuene like fishy said, make a tent with the same pole..
|By Nan (Nanook) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 08:09 am:|
A tented tarp would help by directing any condensation on the cover to the sides. Water damage will kill spots where contams will start.
But you also need some way to compress the straw. It is going to have to be compacted to knit together quickly into a solid mass. Maybe a couple of those plastic lighting grids, as seen in the Double-end casing Tek. Those can be sanitized and layed down over the straw and weighted, then removed after the spawn run and replaced with casing.
|By Maliki vision seaker (Maliki) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 10:48 pm:|
Well nice to see some suport on this. Nan your notes would help lots I would imagine. Yes it is alot of work but so is anything worth doing and it takes time . Luck is with me on the super agresive clones . Ive got an inoculation solution made from the 4th flush of a mazaptec cake the shroom was 10 inches tall and weighed 39.6 grams weight . It was huge and the ball it came from had 16 pins on it . out of those 16 14 grew full size. I inoculated Jars last week on saturday I birthed all 12 1/4 pints today. So its a fast grower.
And as you said Hay tek experiance is still needed , as ive never done one yet. So i will go with a few practice runs . I have a few weeks untill the pool's are in stock.
I want to do this i remember seeing a picture somwhere of what looks like a sliding glass door laid on its side like a table , and absolutley covered with mushrooms. Damnit if they did it so can I . Ive got a 22 quart P/C Plus a 35 Quart turkey roster pot. So I can do a bunch of hay at once. And i do have an eye for details and solving problems befor they happen. The contam thing is my biggest concern. Put ive got the clean room pretty well worked out. If it comes down too it i can seal myself into it with my spray mask on with the fresh air system attached and work in a saturated enviroment to kill all contams . I am WILLING to work.
So any sugestions of a good plan or additions to mine preferably, as I already know mine very well.
Nan your notes on computer ?
Peace and thanks for the positive thoughts All
SEA OF SHROOMS NAHHH BUT I GOT A POOL
DAMN just read your Clone tek well I guess we will see how it does on hay. But ive got a Equdorian Huge dark print from shroomzilla . And his where hay and dung cakes I think?
so ive got spores plus my prints too.
|By onediadem (Onediadem) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 08:57 am:|
how about this peroxide tek? after reading his website, it seems quantities arent
limited, could be an option for the control of contams:
Peroxide Pasteurization Thanx PJ me too . Ive been reading up on the peroxide for a while if I incorporate it as well as with the 7 PH that tric doesn't like i should be able to do it . I think to get the hang of it im going to do a few full bottom bins. And do them in the same manner as I would do the pool. It should help me to perfect my tek to reduce the chances of failure. Ive been spending time at other sites that deal strictly with air born molds virious and bacteria . Learning alot almost afraid to breath anymore. pretty deadly place this world of ours is . The reasearch will help me to reduce my contams , Im trying to follow guidlines set for pepole who have an compromised imune system . I think it will help , to make my enviroments highly contamenent free. Hey, I saw kiddie pools at walmart today!!! Looks like spring is coming, supplies galore!!
Plus, with Nans help here, success is almost guaranteed, with a little trial and error.
Im excited for you!
By Maliki vision seaker (Maliki) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 03:58 pm: By onediadem (Onediadem) on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 07:56 pm:
Thanx PJ me too . Ive been reading up on the peroxide for a while if I incorporate it as well as with the 7 PH that tric doesn't like i should be able to do it . I think to get the hang of it im going to do a few full bottom bins. And do them in the same manner as I would do the pool. It should help me to perfect my tek to reduce the chances of failure. Ive been spending time at other sites that deal strictly with air born molds virious and bacteria . Learning alot almost afraid to breath anymore. pretty deadly place this world of ours is . The reasearch will help me to reduce my contams , Im trying to follow guidlines set for pepole who have an compromised imune system . I think it will help , to make my enviroments highly contamenent free.
Hey, I saw kiddie pools at walmart today!!! Looks like spring is coming, supplies galore!!