Eros and the Pineal

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By plinkerdink420 (Plinkerdink420) on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 02:13 pm:

This thread is continued from Frozen PF Syringes of all places - Nan

don't know about the rest of your stuff as it flew right over my head, but enzymes, i believe, are just chemicals, not alive.... could be wrong though, as i am an idiot

By quote: (Quote) on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 03:24 pm:

of course, we are just chemicals too...

By Spunion_Elf (Spunion_Elf) on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 03:35 pm:

I thought enzymes were just chemicals, but still microwaves break them down into chemicals that are totall useless to us. That's one of the possible reasons why modern humans have higher rates of diseases related to the digestive tract (you'd be surprised at the number of chronic illnesses tht can be traced to poor digestive tract health, your body jsut stores up all kinds of toxins if your colon isn't functioning properly) than our ancestors from jt a few generations ago. As for the rest of it going over your head, the main thrust of the post was that spores are very durable, and a little freezing is no problem at all. It might even be beneficial for really long term storage. And as for all that other stuff, read whatever you can get your hands on, and watch a lot of PBS, Discovery Channel, and the like, and rent some documentaries from your local library. You'd be amazed at some of the stuff you can get your hands on. I'm off to read some Shulgin to see about that DMT thing.... Will keep ya'll informed on where to look for info, if I find anything interesting.


By Dr. Cubensis (Shroomzilla) on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 05:22 pm:

Ask dr. Science!! I mean, er Dr. Spunion!!!


By ion ewe (Ion) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 05:06 am:

Eros and the Pineal. An excellent work on those very questions. And a way to transcend yourself by eating 3 certain things at specific times...
Psilocin is hydroxylated DMT.
Psilocybin is phosphorylated DMT.
Serotonin does not have a DMT skeleton, but it is an indole.

As for philosophy, one could argue that the highest purpose anything in nature could possibly aspire to is the formal appelation of "Chemist". Something happened in the beginning that let particles combine... neutrinos, positrons, photons, electrons, quarks came together to form basic atoms of Hydrogen, then Helium. Eventually these elements began to coalesce into molecules and compounds. These energetic forms were slow enough to begin forming solid particulates and eventually, stars and planets. Upon these orbs were pools of compounds and elements just jiving together to form simple amino acids. These became tiny cells that were highly organized. Their parts became a sum greater than anything the Universe had yet witnessed. Organelles were specialized groups of compounds within a matrix of compounds that had specific duties of assimilation and destruction of other, external, compounds. So on and on through time the cells formed groups of their own as tissues of organs in systems of lifeforms. Many of these lifeforms got together in groups to form clusters, herds, packs, flocks, etc. The organisms evolved in chemistry and became intelligent enough to use other matrices of compounds as tools for doing something to other compounds and lifeforms. Such is the nature of our tribal instincts. Gathering. We have come to a point where certain organisms with highly developed nervous systems are able to perceive and understand and manipulate their environment (other groups of atoms) to suit specific needs and wants. We are a chemical conglomeration with the ability to communicate in detail past experience in dealing with other chemical groups. We are the Chemists. The ultimate goal is nothing more than forming more compounds. More matrices of these compounds. Eventually, we will find a thing (or it will find us) that is greater than a matrix of compounds... this is something we cannot even perceive. Like a fourth dimension, it eludes our brains to even understand. But, perhaps this is all occuring in a fourth dimension where other conciousness is manipulating us like cultures on a plate of agar. Some of us are contaminants, some of us are pure magic... but that is truly up to the decision of this conciousness. A being that exists made of something beyond compounds. Perhaps it all goes back to the basics of energy. An energetic lifeform. All things run full circle for us on this plane, so perhaps this is how we are to perceive such a being... as energy. For we cannot see past the compounds. We are the Chemists. The intermediaries. The precursors...


By Imok Urok2 (Imok) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 06:43 am:

Hey -ion,
You got a link to that
Eros and the Pineal. An excellent work on those very questions.
<end quote>
Or do I hafta look it up myself :)

Hey Spunion,
I can't tell you exactly what enzymes are but a
nutritionist told me that they are in
all "living" things and will decay and disapear
after the living thing dies. May well be a form
of stored chemical energy that living things need
to feed off of to live and grow and are created
in turn by those living things.
As to the question of "symbiotic fungi in our
bodies", I don't know if it is fungi, the same
fellow told me that we do have "flora and
fauna"(sic) in our large intestine that helps us
use the food we eat. He recomended that if you
take a wide-spectrum antibiotic that you take
some asidopholis(sp) in either pill or liquid form
(in the dairy section) to feed it and help it
This guy was recomending taking vitamins 40years
ago when the AMA poo...pooed needing anything
other than "three square meals a day".
At the time he warned against the chemical
fertilizers damaging our foods and making them
less-nutritious and even toxic to our bodies.
Well, after all this time, he is being proved
right. The AMA now recomends "daily requirements"
of vitimins to prevent sickness.

Hey Exile,
Sorry to take your thread so far OT.
Welcome to Myco-world :)

By exile (Exile) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 04:26 pm:

Wow this thread took a sudden turn :) It's cool, I got my syringes yesterday - wrapped in gift wrapping paper in a small rectangular box. How delightful. They weren't frozen, it wasn't even that cold yesterday. I can see little specks floating around inside of the syringes.. however..

I was on the understanding that you need to shake the syringe before injecting, to get the stuff mixed or whatever... and many people say you need to suck up some sterile air in the syringe...however mine both have air between the liquid and the black plunger part.. Is this air bad/normal... or am I just confused?

Thanks for any further replies, and all of the replies to this thread..


By ion ewe (Ion) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 07:18 pm:

Exile- it's normal.
Imok- It is a small pamphlet written by Albert Most from "Venom Press" copyright 1986. You can acquire it through a company called "Rosetta" in CA.
I will get the address for you, but you must understand that what is described in this work can be extremely dangerous in the hands of the inexperienced. Don't try it unless you are willing to have a DMT type tryp that could last for days...
I will mail you the address to control the flow some. I know we have a few on this board who don't know when to quit, so I'd like to keep this private.
I need your e-mail addy.


By Spun Yun Gi (Spunion_Elf) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 07:34 pm:

Ask Dr. Stupid
"Well the answer is simple really. That ugly white slab in you can of beans is the Queen Bean and all the other beans are the worker beans that serve her."
-Ren & Stimpy

Unfortunatly I had to re-write this post because I decided to edit my profile to change my name and when I tabbed back, the page with my post had disappeared. sux. I'm sure the original was much cooler than this one will be.

Ion: Very cool. I read something about that on the Lycaeum last night while looking for chemical information. I think it was in the tryptamine FAQ. Something about eating an MAOI, chocolate and something else to get your brain to suddenly produce a dose of DMT. The rest of your post was just killer! I loved that part about "We are the Chemists" lololol I'm not a Materialist, I'm a Chemist damn it!heheh..... You're super-cool, man. Whoever suggested that you might be a Johnnie Law couldn't have missed the mark more completely. Dunno about the sheep fuckin' thing, but hey, that's your business, and I couldn't care less.clipart{happy}

As for DMT and Serotonin, they're both tryptamines, and the only difference between them is 2 carbon atoms and three hydrogen atoms. But they have the same basic structure. My thinking (bear in mind that I know almost nothing about chemical synthesis) was that it should be relatively easy for an amateur to make nearly pure DMT out of 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan if memory serves), the precursor to serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine) or even from Melatonin (Which differs from 5-MeO-DMT only slightly, an acetyl group, rather than a dimethyl group.) 5-HTP and Melatonin are readily available at most health-food stores. I wonder if you get a psycedelic effect from smoking straight melatonin? Not that this synthesis is really necessary considering the number of legal plants containing DMT, but for a hobbyist a pure extraction, eliminating all the other substances from the biomass, would be nearly impossible, whereas this synthesis should be relatively feasable and yeild good results for the dabbler who's interested in a relatively pure product. I'll figure it out some day.....

Imok: I've managed to remember a little more about enzymes. Modern food production destroys a lot of enzymes in our food, essentiall causing malnutrition to varying degrees, even in well-fed people. We use enzymes for a wide variety of biological functions. They're essential to cell devision, maintaining the interity of DNA chains, changing chemicals into other chemicals (like neurotransmitters and hormones), digestion, detoxification, repairing damage etc. For a minute there, I just couldn't remember if they were simple organisms like bacteria or just the tools used by all life-forms to carry out the processes of living. What was I thinking.... must've been the roach my buddy left here....

Exile: The reason for having air in the syringe is that it helps facilitate the shaking process (yeah, I dabble in physics too). I don't know if it's normal, but it's not bad because this stuff isn't going to be injected into a human. If you already have air in there, I wouldn't bother sucking any more in, because it's more trouble than it's worth. Sterilizing solids and liquids is relatively easy, but sterilizing a gas and keeping it's container sealed up and sterile while it cools and the pressure changes sounds rather difficult. Although hypothetically (or hypodermically, or even hyperthermically [Mommy, make the bad man stop making puns!]) you could preheat your oven for a couple hours on a high setting, while chilling your syringe to near-freezing temperatures, then quickly open the door and place the tip of needle a few inches away from the heating element towards the back of the oven and draw in a cc or two of hot air. The cold water absorbs the heat from the sterile air, while any possible little peices of ice help to mix things around. You might also be able to get away with sealing up a jar full of air really *really* tight with polyfill (don't know if it'll melt or not) and sterilizing that, then letting it cool, for some cool sterile air. Shit, what an I thinking, just run your hepa filter or negative ion generator for like a day in a really tightly closed room, that should clean the air airly well (I think).

Now ya'll've done it. You let the Djini out of the bottle, there's no putting him back in. Idle speculation (scientific or otherwise) is one of my specialties. I could probably keep this thread going for a month or more by myself.\

roses are red
violets are blue
I'm a scitzophrenic
and so am I

"Watch out where the huskies go
and don't you eat that yellow snow."

Pay no attention to that freak behind the keyboard!

oh and speaking of puns, check this one out


Just read it out-loud, and you'll get it. Put it on a T-shirt and just walk around and see how many people get it.

or what about this one

This trucker stops at a diner on Chrismas day, and orders some eggs bennedict. The waitrss brings it out on a chrome hub-cap. The guy says "Hey, sugar, what's with the hub-cap?" And she says "There's no plate like chrome for the holindaze."

Ya get it? Trust me that one will get funnier with sucessive tellings.

Take care

By ion ewe (Ion) on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 08:32 pm:

How old are you, man? You've just made a friend in any case... Stupid puns. References I get and find quite personal. You knew about "Still Life". Who are you? It's just creepy...

Yes, Serotonin is 5-Hydroxy Tryptamine. It can be converted to 5-MeO-DMT by the action of 2 pineal enzymes (HIOMT and INMT). Conditions must be correct for pineal serotonin to become a substrate for these enzymes, however. But it is a fairly simple process. The real instructions are less vague...

Speaking of DMT synthesis... I've found the easiest way to attain pure product. Startup cost around $500, innocuous looking chems, and pretty damn simple. The end product isn't even a crystal, it's an oil (can be recrystallized from benzene) you can store in an aromatherapy vial...
Of course, I'd never do anything like this. It'd be illegal.


By onediadem (Onediadem) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 10:16 am:

Damn, you two, I definately feel like I have the IQ of a slug.
Thanks, uh-huh.
I shall slither away, and munch on some grass or something now.
Remind me to NEVER get in a pissing contest with either of you.
I guess I was at the end of the line when the sparks between atoms, neutrinos, positrons, photons,and electrons were being passed out.
Live long,

By Imok Urok2 (Imok) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 11:32 am:

Hey Pam,

They start pissing on you, just sick your kitties on them

By Spun Yun Gi (Spunion_Elf) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 12:12 pm:

Ion: See the thread in General about average poster's age. The most advanced degree I hold is a HS diploma and I barely got that (2.4 GPA I think), I just retain information really well which is how I managed to graduate without doing most of my work. I haven't actually read still life yet, but know of it. Unfortunately I can't tell you *who* I am, but many people have called me creepy...BTW where'd you find that procedure for making DMT oil? If you don't want the url to be generally known, let me know and I'll get off my ass and create a disposable e-mail account. I would never actually make it either (not cause it's illegal, but because I'd be too worried that I'd screw it up and end up with something toxic or carcinogenic), I'd just like to know for my own personal amusement, I'm a curious little fucker.

Pam: I've read many of your posts and you're a smart lady, you just don't have the obsessive interest in science that we have. It's almost a sickness really.... and this definately is not a pissing contest, just a little entertainment. Flexing of the intellectual muscles to keep them in shape, rather than showing off. But we all love you here, even if you don't have a PHD in advanced quasi-bullshit.


By onediadem (Onediadem) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 01:18 pm:

I feel the love, lol.
Now I shall go back to munchin on some grass and leaves.
Sometimes brain power boggles the mind.
Um, 1+1=3, right? lol.
Much loves,

By quote: (Quote) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 02:55 pm: has some interesting info on dmt extraction from plants, not as hard as you might think.

By Spun Yun Gi (Spunion_Elf) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 03:20 pm:

Thanks "Quo", just skimmed the main page and book marked it. Will get more in depth when I have the time, but it looks like a fairly vast, reliable source of info.

Hey, kids, check this place out:

That's all for now (what no long-winded stream-of-conciousness post???? nope, not right now)

Spun Yun Gi

By quote: (Quote) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 03:30 pm:

hey, i though that site was long defunct, guess someone resurrected it.
thx for pointing that out, i'd long ago quit checking in there, as it was in dissarray quite a while.
a word about the message board at
be very circumspect and discrete with your questions, always posing strictly hypothetical questions,
they hate it when anyone is too open and honest.

By Spun Yun Gi (Spunion_Elf) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 04:12 pm:

gotcha. I wasn'teven really planning on posting anything, just looking around, but I'll keep your advice in mind

By ion ewe (Ion) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 08:00 pm:

Not......KITTIES!! Nooooooo!!

Kitties are the bane of my existence as a rabid sheep humper...

Don't feel weird, Pam. I was just waxing philosophic for a while. We all have these kinds of thoughts; we're just not always able to express them verbally. No shame or slug juice in that...

Spunion- This is weird. You are me in many aspects...
You ask me where I found it... I cannot tell you that. It might sick the DEA hounds upon the ass of its author or put the chems on the watched list. Here's a hint: It was discovered by very close reading of a very popular book. One of your favorites, I would presume. It's right there, just waiting to see if anyone is actually paying attention. A riddle: The last is the first in abbreviated names. The goal leads to the means.


By Spun Yun Gi (Spunion_Elf) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 10:14 pm:

Ion, I dig your style man. I understand your reasoning. I was hesitant to even metion 5-HTP or melatonin, but I fgured word would get around anyway (if it wasn't already circulating amongst people in the know) and probably still wouldn't matter. Furtunately DMT has no popular appeal, and it's easier to grow cubies than to make psiocybin. I think I get your hint (it's a pretty good hint, obvious to us, cryptic and ponderous to most folks, even the average cop. Good work, brother, I salute you). If you're saying what I think you're saying, then the author (if it's who I think it is) actually has been hassled by the Feds for most of his career, but then again, they always need his help when they can't figure something out.

"When you're smart, people need you"
Real Genius
and you can add that to my list of trippin' fun movies.

"Toodeloo, go with God, and don't take any wooden nickles"
-George Carlin

By ion ewe (Ion) on Monday, January 21, 2002 - 03:53 am:

Yes, he has been. And, yes, they do. I don't even know why he continues to help the fucking pricks... poor guy.
When you find it nestled there, you'll probably wonder why you never saw it before...

Well, this is it. I'm done posting to this spore shipping question. On to the next...


By Spun Yun Gi (Spunion_Elf) on Monday, January 21, 2002 - 08:01 am:

Yeah, I think I'm done too. Looked up that info in the online version, looks a little over my head, so I think I'll stick with herbal extraction. Don't really feel like spending the next few years studing organic chemistry.

I think he continus to help the pricks to keep from spending his few remaining years in prison. He has peyote growing in his house, and has the means and know-how to make any illegal substance you'd care to name. And the fact that he's published certain things doesn'help him, so he's cooperative when they ask for his advice. Can't blame him at all. And from one perspective, the pricks aren't so bad (I'm not saying they're good, just not totally 100% pure evil), because at least they try to ignore any new drug until the media gets ahold of it and forces them into action.


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