|By Snoopy (Snoopy) on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 02:53 pm:|
I dunk my jars individually. I just inject water thru the holes of the lid and let them dunk that way. When I was draining out the water and birthing them this morning I noticed one of the jars had a little ice in it. Will this kill the mycelium or not? It was in the fridge for about 14 hours, and was the only jar that I noticed had the ice. Want to make sure it wouldn't affect the other jars. How cold is to cold for the cakes?
|By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 07:21 pm:|
Freezing is too cold, the spot of myc that had frozen will prolly die.
It has never happened to me though.... please give us the definitive word on what happens.
|By ion ewe (Ion) on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 07:51 pm:|
40 F is probably the lowest you would ever want to go. Ice crystals are very sharp, and will burst the cell walls of pretty much any living tissue but adipose. Called frostbite on living stuff; freezer burn on foods; and the black, gooey death on mushrooms not dried.
|By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 08:13 pm:|
Hey Ion, how come freezer burn only forms on the outside of food? And only when air is present?
|By Bjsloan (Bjsloan) on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 08:14 pm:|
My friend had frozen a couple jars in his refrigerator when he was away for a couple of weeks. The cakes weren't dunking, but were almost a 100% colonization. Two jars had a little frozen water on the sides of the jar. Surprisingly they turned out perfectly fine.
|By Brad (Raze) on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 08:40 pm:|
Well if we all remember, the inside of a jar is 2 degrees warmer when incubating, we could assume this to be true when dunking as well. On top of that, it would not only be generating its own heat, but likely the center would be insolated from the outside, so if a few cells ruptured and died, it could recover.
From what it sounds like, it should be okay. If it were frozen solid I'd say otherwise.
|By Snoopy (Snoopy) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 12:25 am:|
Yah like I said it was only 1 jar out of many. Must have been right close to where the cold air is blown out. All the cakes were in individual jars and none of the others had any ice luckly. But thanks for the encouraging word Brad lets hope your right!
Regardless I'll post the results on that cake and the others with extreme cold dunking temps
|By Scotsman (Barrowland) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 06:30 am:|
Can you remember the post i pu on , can this cake survive , well i cut a bit off of it dunked it and when i put it in the fridge i must have touched the temp dial cause next day the water the cake was submedged in had turned to ,not solid ice but kinda slush. I thought it was a gonner but i got it fuiting and its on its first flush now , i thought i had screwed up but as i said it survived.
|By ion ewe (Ion) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 07:35 am:|
Sorry for the delay, brettie. I must haveforgotten about this thread... oops.
I believe the real definition of freezerburn is the oxidization of cellular material caused by freezing. The cell walls rupture from the sharp ice crystals and this exposes the cytoplasm, nuclear fluids, and other organelles to airborne oxygen, thus allowing them to be rapidly oxidized. Frost bite is the same thing, but infection can also play a devious role in that game. Black gooey death is because there is sooo much water in shrooms that they seem to just become ice. When they thaw, they just melt into an amorphous mass of oxidized (black) goo.
|By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 07:46 am:|
So, the cells rupture throughout the entire mass... but only the parts exposed to airborne oxygen oxidize, or at least, oxidize at a rate in which we notice?
|By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 07:50 am:|
And why aren't you supposed to re-freeze meat?
|By ion ewe (Ion) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 07:16 pm:|
If it is frozen quickly enough, very little damage will be done. The water has no time to form many sharp crystals or really expand (below 4 degrees C), instead it forms compact roundish crytal patterns that are approximately the same size as the water mass at 4 degrees C (water's most dense point). In effect the water mass will be slightly smaller than at room temperature, and the ice resultant would not have expanded enough to really swell the cells. Unfortunately, this rate of freezing is not usually possible with equipment available to the average housewife or home experimenter...
The inside of the food is protected from air, but it is not impervious. It will still turn brown ("rust") over time. For some reason, the cells on the inside of a thick piece are not ruptured. It may be that they are protected from expansion for the solidity of the surrounding frozen material. I'm not sure, but I will look it up.
|By Snoopy (Snoopy) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 07:55 pm:|
For the record, the cakes that got iced altho not completely cased in ice just around the edges are fruiting fine.. No noticeable lack of pins yet.