Hydroponic casing??

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By Jose Cruz (Vato) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 02:00 am:

Wsa in bed trying to sleep and a crazy thought came about. Has anyone ever tried using rockwool slabs fed or soaked with nutrients? Would this even work? Would like to experiment more but as you may have read three batches of jars were lost.
Anyone willing to chat about possible specifics on the subject of rockwool growing please do respond to the post.....Thanx for your time..

By ShrooMaster (Shroomaster) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 04:00 am:

ive icked that very sme idea around. the problemn as i see it is over doing the cake with whatever fertilizer. personally id use age old organics organic fertilizer to be kindest to the cakes. what do you think?

By nuecrew (Nue) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 04:28 am:

Like is maybe the people coming and going from the grow shop really shroomers?

By Jose Cruz (Vato) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 04:48 am:

Good idea.... Do you know of any veteran growers that have milled around with the idea and maybe have posotive results?

By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 06:01 am:

Tried it... Never posted about it... Wonder why?

It may work but you can only use inorganic nutrient salts and the concentrations have to be very, very, low... I ran an entire series of experiments and afterwards I dropped the whole idea. Stick with a good substrate and clean water.

By Jose Cruz (Vato) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 09:24 pm:

Thanx nan> Was about to head to the hydro store, guess not...

By ShrooMaster (Shroomaster) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 11:37 pm:

well i guess its back to dunking in milk huh Jose?

By quote: (Quote) on Thursday, December 27, 2001 - 11:43 pm:

i'm about ready to try milk in my 'voodoo'
holes-in-the-cake reservoirs.
i plan to just fill the holes, pop in the fridge, remove 24 hours later , drain & rinse.
should be alot less risky contam-wise.

By Snoopy (Snoopy) on Friday, December 28, 2001 - 12:23 am:

After you dunk in milk and return to the terrarium..... does it smell at all? I have never dunked in milk just water, but I hate the smell of spoiled milk. I just find it terribly strange that one would dunk in milk, altho I do not doubt it could possibly be better than water. Must have more nutrients than water.

By quote: (Quote) on Friday, December 28, 2001 - 03:14 am:

strange indeed, but it works well.
there should be no rancid smell,
just shroomy smells, if done properly under refridgeration.

By nuecrew (Nue) on Friday, December 28, 2001 - 07:11 pm:

Are there really any "steroids" for shrooms like Peptone say? Or are they best left to work hard for their nutrients like us Humans. I was seriously wondering if Peptone would be good for something.???

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 04:22 am:

Why all this trying to supplement the nutrients for better flushes?

Perhaps on flushes subsequent to the second, I can understand the logic, but not really.

The second flush has always been the best, in my experience, and then you wrestle with the aging of the myc, after that, and trying to sustain it long enough to get more fruit.

But I don't necessarily believe it is that the myc runs out of food that is the cause of this, rather that it simply ages, and loses it's resilentcy, that is the culprit.

And any supplement, of nutrients, after that, seems to invite contams since the age of the myc, lowers its ability to fight off forieghn invaders, and the contams are just looking for a good food source to get a foothold in, whatever it may be.

I would think that trying to squeeze the most out of the first two or three flushes, through proper hydration, would be the most logical course of experimentation.

And anything you get after that is just gravy.... certainly not the norm.

For practical (and consistent) yeilds, I say, squeeze the most out of those first three flushes, and then move on.

But hey..... that is just me, thinking out loud.

By Nan (Nanook) on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 05:03 am:

I agree Brettie, from an efficiency standpoint I have been either breaking up cakes or slicing them into wafers, casing them, and pitching everything after flush #2... The time spent nursing, trying to "feed" cakes, and the inevitable onset of contams has me making flat beds, cropping the substrate out in two flushes and replacing the whole works when the second flush is done.

I am also beginning to wonder if the shrooms do not "poison" the substrate as they break down and digest the BRF... In order for the mycelia to feed, they must secrete enzymes into the substrate to break down the food to the point where it can be absorbed... Stamets notes in several places that the pH drops as a result of mycelial action on substrate and casings.

So I wonder... Is it a really a nutrition issue in these later flushes, or is it simply that the shrooms "shit where they eat" and substrate becomes less and less habitable as the pH drops and enzymatic waste products from digestion build up...

Note you can peel these old cakes, break them up, mix them into bulk substrate (pasteurized compost or straw) and the mycelium takes off fresh and vigorously... I don't see signs of "old age" here, I do see mycelium eager to get off the old substrate and onto the new... It just makes me wonder what is really going on here...

Regardless, the way I deal with this is to crop them out in two flushes and replace the substrate.
No feeding, I find myself using less and less additives (because it's faster without them)...

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 05:31 am:

Therin lies the beauty of OT and his straw tek.

Two good flushes from your cakes, and then use your myc (cakes) to spawn bulk substrate.

Eh, Nan?

Your hypothesis on the accumulation of toxins by the cakes, themselves, I find intriguing.

We definitely have the right people at the helm here.

By Nan (Nanook) on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 06:06 am:

>Two good flushes from your cakes, and then use your myc (cakes) to spawn bulk substrate.<

Indeed I have done this and it works. I have found that peeling off the outer layer of the old cake reduces the incidents of contams in the new bed. And I have found that it's only worthwhile with your best fruiting cakes.

But from a speed and yield point of view, I go straight from the jars into beds cased with Verm or 50/50... Thin layers of substrate, lots and lots of surface area, get two flushes, then dump the used bed into the composter, re-sanitize the container, and repeat... You can use any jar or bulk tek to produce colonized substrate for this process.

The other way, which is the one you point out... Is to get two flushes off a double-end cased PF cake, then peel the cake, grind into powder (mixing sterilized worm castings into the grind really helps get a nice powder) and spawn compost or straw... Now after some experience, I use freshly birthed cakes and clean room tek for spawning beds of bulk substrate (reduces the contams)... But with a little care and technique these all work... And can be made to work well with some little practice...

Indeed... Let me tell you a story. I was disposing of a bunch of old cakes last summer. I broke them up into pea sized pieces by hand (did not even bother washing up). I took a bag of composted cow manure from the lawn & garden store, slit the bag down the middle lengthwize, added a bit of water (it was already near perfect mositure content) and mixed in the old cake pieces just to see what would happen... I did nothing else, the bag laid in a shady spot in the backyard under the eves... I don't know how much time passed, but after a good while I thought about it and went to check... And shrooms were flushing in the bag. Not a great flush, but a flush... And remember I did absolutely nothing... No water, no misting, no casing, no sterilization... Nothing.