Experiment complete... Incredible findings!

Nan's Nook : Archives : Drying/Storage  : Drying/Storing Shrooms : Where to store dried mushrooms?: Experiment complete... Incredible findings!

Subtopic: Vacuum Storage

By ion ewe (Ion) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 01:14 am:

Well, my buddy and I have just completed an experiment about 5 years in the running.
The original idea was to test the ability of my described storage technique (cold super dry, vacuumed, in -5 C or lower freezer) on high psilocin to psilocybin ratio containing mushrooms. The experiment was to determine the necessary parameters at which to hold the easily degraded psilocin for it to stay relatively untouched for a span of many years. All was prepared as follows:

The substrate was made up as per the PF Max formula with the addition of approx. 333 milligrams T-HCl for ten half pint jars. The T was dissolved in a small amount of distilled H2O and this was then diluted in the original amount of water required for the substrate. The water was added slowly while stirring and folding the dry materials in a large mixing bowl.
The ten jars were filled and prepared as per the PF TEK plus the addition of Inner Reservoirs. They were sterilized in the autoclave at 450 F for 20 minutes.
The jars were allowed to cool and innoculated with a PF syringe. Full colonization took an average of 20 days with invitro pinning at 25. The cakes were birthed, dabbed for moisture droplets, and placed in ultrasonic humidification chamber. There were no contaminations.
In the following weeks, the cakes were rehydrated with steril water injections (1-3 cc) between each flush. The fruits were smaller than average (this was expected) and were harvested just prior to full separation of the veils.
All were left whole and dried in airtight container with dessicant in approx. 40 F refrigerator. Average time till fully dry was 5.5 days.
Without opening, the conainer was allowed to warm up to ambient room temperature. Premature sporocarps and abhorts were sealed in separate vaccuum bags and labeled by weight and flush #. (fruits from all cakes during a single flush were combined to give an average of potency).
Small samples of each flush were given to subjects in dosages adjusted for each person's weight based on general expected average potency. 150 lb. person with known previous sensitivity levels was given 1 gram, and so forth up.
It was determined by these tests that the 3rd flush abhorts had the highest levels of psilocin. Psilocybin levels in T supplemented fungi are generally very low, and thus not considered in these trials.
A well mixed (equal amount from all different cakes) 5 gram bag of these abhorts was stored in the aforementioned manner. An equivalent amount was stored in a plain ziploc and placed on a shelf out of direct light. Ambient temperature varied from 60 F to 100 F (air conditioners have a hard time in some places) over the course of a year.
After the passing of approx. 1 year the fruits were sampled by 130 lb. subject in the amount of 1 gram. First the ziploc: Some somatic effects (visceral feeling), mild color enhancement with some forming patterns in dim light and behind the eyes. "Tryppy" feelings. ++ by Shulgin standard.
About 1 week later, the vaccuumed and frozen were sampled in the same amount. Definite +++! Much visual and auditory changes, great feelings of euphoria and sometimes malaise. Very intense!
Two years later (3 years now in storage) the same amount of ziplocs were sampled. Almost no effects. Some light-headedness, some increase in visual acuity. All very subtle. Maybe +1.
Frozens were sampled at a lower dose on a "hunch". Only half a gram was taken. Extreme tryp! Changes in facial structure to such a degree that it looked real in a mirror (becoming a cobra)! Euphoria, intense feelings of malaise (not the greatest setting in retrospect). Eventual down slope at 5 hours, but still quite perceptible at 6. Calm after peak. Strong +++.
Now, after five years the samples are finished (some were given out for comparisons over the years). The ziplocs had been given away to a young friend who was new to the experience over a year ago. He had an OK time with about 2.5 grams.

Now for the interesting part. About half a gram (of the frozen) was split between three people! Yes, really. The dose was about the diameter of a man's thumb nail, and about 4 mm thick. Not much was expected (all were in the mood for a very light tryp), but at the half hour point, all were well on their way up to trypland! Because of the surprise and unreadiness, the tryp was not as pleasant as it could have been for 2 of the 3. Definite +++! Great convoluting closed eye visuals, much dizziness, visceral feelings, open eyes and auditory were bright and scintillating. Simply amazing for about 5 hours.

In conclusion we seem to have stumbled upon a strange occurance in our quest to preserve psilocin content.
It appears that these supplemented mushrooms age like fine wine when stored properly... They actually become more potent with time!

The only plausible explanation I have been able to determine has been this:
Somehow, the enzymes in a P. Cubensis fungus that are responsible for the synthesis of psilocin from available tryptamine still work when they are dried and left in matrix. I have surmised that the excess of tryptamine in the substrate was so great that the water flowing throughout the fungal mass carried it in relatively huge concentration, and thus much of this chemical was trapped in the mushrooms after they were harvested. As the water evaporated from them, the tissue continued to live for a small while because of the cold drying conditions. The tryptamine, and the enzymes responsible for it's restructuring were left intact during this cold drying. This allowed the processes of psilocin synthesis continue very slowly while later frozen!

If anyone can figure out some other logical reason for this occurance, please post! This is a very exciting discovery!


By Fishy1 (Fishy1) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 02:10 am:

Very interesting, ion.
I don't doubt it.

By ion ewe (Ion) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 08:48 am:

What don't you doubt?

Anyway, we're talking some serious potency, here! Let's see... The dose was about half a gram split three ways. That would make each about 166.7 mg of dried shroom. Based on weight of the subjects, speed of onset and amount and length of trypnitude, I would say the total ingested psilocin and 'cybin for each was around 10 to 15 mg. On the conservative end this is still almost 6% indole levels dry! That's unheard of! Honestly, these things could be used to make 1 "00" shroom pill that would get you where 3 or 4 grams of normal pills would!


By Imok Urok2 (Imok) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 10:36 am:

Interesting ion,
I know that if you can keep from smoking your green stuff,
and put back in a freezer,
after six months or so,
average will be like primo.
Read a recipie where you burried it in the fall and dug it up in the spring.
Moldy gold :)

By mrnngglry (Mrnngglry) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 07:40 pm:

very interesting!

can one of our professional chemists respond with a hypothesis to explain these results?

also, administration, would it make sense to move this post to "general" where we may get a better response rate?

By ion ewe (Ion) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 08:18 am:

Urok, that is the concept behind an African aphrodisiac called "Kala Khij" (sp?)
Blue-green mold can be collected from clean citrus left in a dark place in a paper bag. This is used to inoculate a bag of slightly moist kolas. This is allowed to run for about a month or two. The final product is dried well and smoked. I have no idea what the chemical concept is behind this stuff, but it's a pretty sweet high and an "eclectic" taste to be sure.
Mrnn, I was considering putting this in general when I wrote it, but I decided on growing because it is a form of supplementation. That is a good idea, though.
Quo or Nan, you can move this if you think it's best.


By nuecrew (Nue) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 10:23 am:

Why don't you have a friend with access to one of those gas mass spectrometers do the workup on the psilocin content before and after. It would convince me without further ado. Even a cheap photospectrometer would probably work. What do you think? Do you have any samples left? I sure would be interested in the findings. Do you need ideas on where to have it done? You can do it! You can do it!

By relic (Relic) on Sunday, December 23, 2001 - 09:00 am:

if true, reproducable, whatever, this is absolutely amazing. kala khij? what do you mean by eclectic taste? what's it do?

By ripple in the mind (Ripple) on Sunday, December 23, 2001 - 03:27 pm:

Now you say these were abhorts. Did any of the three that sampled the remainder have any of the previous abhorts? What I'm looking for is a control, or a point of reference. Is it possible that these little guys were just as potent as they always have been? Secondly, is it possible that these babies were just potent on visuals in the first place? I mean, a cobra... What if hypothetically what your buddy produced were babies that were specified for heightened visuals? Hrmmm... curiouser and curiouser...

By ratdog (Ratdog) on Tuesday, December 25, 2001 - 10:44 pm:

I wonder if you could inject a dilute T-HCL solution directly into the base of a growing shroom? Just wondering about whether it is worth paying the $55 for 2 grams of the T-HCL. And if it is not possible to inject them, does the timeperiod really have to be 5 years? I'd think that after a few weeks any enzymes would be dead. Is it possible to speed it up by instead of freeze drying the shrooms, place them in the fridge for a week or so just like the storage of fresh shrooms, possibly the enzymes would work faster? (considering they only have a week or so to produce the psilo already present in normal P. Cubes.... I think i read somewhere that the PF Tek produces no psilo untill fruiting actually occurs, there is none in the Myc.)

By ShrooMaster (Shroomaster) on Wednesday, December 26, 2001 - 03:05 am:

in my exp with fresh shrooms and the frezer is a down in quality.

ive done some apple wine prison style for kicks before and a prerequisit was a cool dark place. the shrooms skin is airtight, another help if you dont like a nasty bacteria n your stomach. i think ion ht on a good boost in the kool drying and storage allowing some more alkaloids to be made, but i think this has more to do with internal fermentation.

anyone with a freezer chest and the cool desicant drying method out to try this out with thourogh testing precedures. hey ion youd better name this son of a bitch, if its true your talking about the biggest step in cubies since brf cakes. im not fucking around. this could put the cubieon par with liberty caps. Amazing [potentially].

By ion ewe (Ion) on Monday, December 31, 2001 - 10:50 am:

Well, I'm back and busier than ever... I shall try to answer some questions.

Yes, Ripple, two of the three in the group had previously partaken of these same abhorts. Their physical weights had not changed dramatically, nor had they been taking MAOI's at either time. The results are true to form as far as I have been able to deduct... the only problem is that these tests were subjective to the human experience. They were not chromatographed samples...

Alas, Nue, I have no access to such instruments at this time. There are none of these little beauties left, anyway...
Then again, maybe I can talk to Dr. Gartz!

These were grown and selected to be the best of the best. And they were. They were not grown specifically for "visuals" however. One only has a couple active chemicals to work with in a shroom, as opposed to the 400+ isomers and substitutions of cannabinoids in bud. Those kinds of "bloodlines" just aren't possible with cubies.

Ratdog, you need to find a better price for T, first of all. $40 should get you close to 10 grams 98+% T-HCl. Second, no. You should not inject a shroom with chemicals. There will be too much leftover T and it's partial subs into psilocin. You don't want such a "dirty" experience. Lastly, this may just be like fine wine. It takes time... Shrooms should always be a special sacrement. This "waiting period" would only serve to enforce that idea... Like a sip of that ancient cognac only at the start of a new year...

Shroo, perhaps I could call it the Super-psilious TEK! But why name such a find? I'm in this for the greater good, my friend. Don't get me wrong, I'm very excited! I just haven't been able to prove this or repeat it-- considering how long it took...

Relic, I looked the stuff up for you in my damn-near unmanageable library. Khala-Khij (correct spelling) is an African Aphrodisiac usually taken in a ritualistic setting of foreplay. The effects vary with the type and quality of buds used, but it seems that sex is particularly beautiful and gratifying whilst it courses the systems. And by "eclectic taste", I mean it literally tastes funny... but in a good way... like dark beer for beer drinkers. BTW, the actual recipe involves hash-type reductions and stuff. If you want it I'll post it for you under general.