Carmelized Karo

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By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 12:33 am:

C:GalleriesMain GalleryKayro.JPG

A Carmelized Karo Tek Jar

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 12:36 am:

I'm new to this tek. Is it still useable? (I thought I had the text included but I guess not)
In the teks I have read, carmelization is to be avoided...

The syrup is obviously carmelized...

40 min @ around 15 psi

By quote: (Quote) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 03:23 am:

40 minutes is really too long for liquids, 20 is really all you need.

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 03:25 am:

these various teks, arghhh! I'll just go by trial and error. What does the pic look like to you? I think it's viable.

By quote: (Quote) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 03:28 am:

well, here's my view.
the syrup's cheap, and the jar's reuseable.
so i'd do it over until i got it right.
i mean, it shouldn't be yellow,
you are right to believe you over-cooked it.

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 04:24 am:

Right. I'll fire up the "oven of love" one more time... lol

By Nan (Nanook) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 07:26 am:

Nowhere do you mention the sugar source. Malt, Dextrose, Karo, Honey...

If you used Karo or Dextrose then something is not right and you should not use the jar. Quote is correct.

Use a standoff plate during sterilization, and if you make the jar up with good purified or distilled water 20 minutes will be fine to sterilize... But I have gone more than twice that long, and I have never had a jar discolor or otherwise show signs of carmelization.

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 07:45 am:

Im using "Light Kayro Syrup with Real Vanilla"
It's all they had.
I am using a "standoff Plate" or "trivett".

I went with tap water this time and cut my PC time to 10 minutes. "Purified Water" in my mind is the water you PC for X amount of minutes... I have used tap water boiled for 10 min in the jar. Also boiled and Nuked... I don't think it's the water, it's the PC time...

I have a syringe that has 6cc's left. It is a VERY LIGHT one. But this tek is good for not needing many spores...

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 12:22 am:

20 min @ 15psi and it looks like it's carmelized.
But Than can't be so I'm thinking it's the vanilla in the syrup. And secondly will the vanilla laced Kayro Syrup still work for the Mycellial water tek??


By Nan (Nanook) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 12:48 am:

I swear... Mine never discolor. Could rust or an old seal be leaching down from the jar lid?

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 12:54 am:

BRAND NEW pc... The Kayro syrup has vanilla in it. It's the only kind they had and the only difference I can think of in my case...

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 11:47 am:

THe jars are brand new too.

By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 11:22 pm:

My Dextrose and Karo Jars are both crystal clear after pressure cooking for up to 45 minutes at 15 lbs steam.

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 11:35 pm:

It's gotta be the Vanilla in the syrup. And in the teks it says lids upside down, band loose. Well that fills the jar to the top with water even though the thing is covered in foil. These teks are a trip. You almost always have to make changes to them cause they are so vaguely worded.

By Nan (Nanook) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 01:06 am:

I don't see the confusion you are making. You take 75ccs of distilled water and stir in one teaspoon of dextrose: Dextrose Tek. This fills the jar less than 1/2 way.


You take one level teaspoon of Light Karo Syrup (where are you buying Kayro?) and stir it into 100cc of distilled water: Karo Tek. This fills the jar about 1/2 way.

1) You must not overheat them during sterilization
2) You must make sure water is not entering the jar during sterilization
3) You must check the lid to see if rust is leaching in

Something is either contaminating or overheating your liquid culture jar during sterilization. The pic you posted looks just like what a Honey Tek should look like, but not a Dextrose or Karo Tek.

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 03:33 pm:

ok if you heat them too fast on high they carmelize. I turned the heat down and the jars came out clear.

Sanitizing (btm page) : Liquid Culture : How it started : Shroom Glossary

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 11:14 pm:

all good?? I got a bit hot there...

As it turns out I was a bit heavy on the initial heat to bring the PC up to pressure. The tek is VERY touchy as far as initial heat goes... I was able to PC the jar for 40 min with no carmelization. As for the pic, what can be said? It was there...

By Nan (Nanook) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 11:36 pm:

Cool... I am glad you figured it out! Now on to some liquid culture eh?

BTW, you were wise to hold up and resolve the problem before shooting a culture that discolored.

Good Luck

By Brad (Raze) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 01:35 am:

I brewed up several jars of dextrose, 50 minutes at 13psi and absolutely no carmelization

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 05:28 am:

Brad & Nanook,

I'm just lookin' to get one jar of Honey and/or Kayro up and running! I think I'm lookin' @ the 12th b4 I can knock anything up... It looks nice here though. Damn if that 22 Qt PC don't keep boiling for 25 min after I take it off the heat...

I have 3 Kayro and 2 Honey knocked up. It's my Pearl Harbor batch (11-07). I did several methods to get the 5. They are labeled so I will know what works or not.



By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 12:55 am:

I sterilized my dextrose water the same as I have done in the past. However, and for whatever reason, it came out a little bit yellow this time. Now I know this is due to the carmalization and I know there has been a lot of talk about it but, can someone remind me, is it best to start over with new dex water? Will the spores not germinate correctly in this or is there some other problem that will occur? Mind you it is not extremely yellow but yellow non-the-less.

By quote: (Quote) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 02:58 am:

carmelized sugars can mutate cells and inhibit mycellial growth.
best to get it right.

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 03:18 am:

I sterilized at 15psi for 25 minutes, which has worked before. How should I change that? No pressure, perhaps? How long should I boil them without pressure?

By Nan (Nanook) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 08:19 am:

Use pressure. 20 minutes is fine. Mr. Bug reported that high initial heat on his PC was causing his carmelization problem... When he heated the PC slower his jars came out clean.

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 10:00 pm:

I did it again just the same and it worked this time. I couldn't figure out why but that must be it, I (unwittingly) heated it up slower this time. Thanks guys. Great tip too.

PC Problem