Nan's Nook : Archives : Misc Tek : Grain Teks : Birdseed
  Subtopic Posts Updated Creator
DethHead's Birdseed Tek  1   DethHead
Mycota's WBS Tek ? 7/03 Mycota
Birdseed update  5   onediadem
Polyfil Lids  -    
Dry Substrate :-(  16   Mr. B
Think I screwed up the birdeed.... Jars won't shake..  20   Dr. Cubesis III
Grain Discussions (lots of WBS Tek) -    
New Tex Birdseed/ brf substrate pix  8   Eatyualive

By Jeremiah Frog (Jeremiahfrog) on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 09:10 pm:

A friend of a friend prepared some jars for sterilization via birdseed tek. Spores weren't available at the time, so they've been sitting with foil still on the lids for some weeks now. My question is: Should the jars still be okay for innoculation, should they just be re-sterilized, or should they just start over from scratch?

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 10:02 pm:

they probably are still ok.
my biggest concern, aside from any obviously contaminated jars,
would be that they might have dried out,
which depends on your humidity there.
with the foil left on all this time,
i'd say you're prolly good to go ahead.
but birdseed is cheap,
so if you want to be absolutely certain,
you should go from scratch.

By Lifeform (Lifeform) on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 11:27

How do you grow with seed?

By Quote (Quote) on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 11:38 am: Edit

we use wild birdseed, soaked in near boiling water 45 minutes, drained, strained, rinsed, then fill jars 2/3's full, use polyfil plug in lid to inoculate thru 1 hole, pressure cook at 15 psi for 60-75 minutes. shake grain loose, cool, and inoculate thru the polyfil plug.
shake grain every 5-6 days to spread growth. when fully colonized, pour into trays and case.

By Patrick (Valence) on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 11:11 pm:

Might just make up a Karo Jar and spawn enough juice for new and old jars and give it a shot...
Can't hurt. Since your friend has all ready gone through the trouble of making the jars.

By Jeremiah Frog (Jeremiahfrog) on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 08:41 pm:

Thanks for the advice guys. One ques. though...What's a Karo jar? I've never heard of that before.

By Lichen (Lichen) on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 08:44 pm:

it is a liquid innoculum tek similar to dextrose liquid culture or honey water, but with 4% Karo Light Corn Syrup instead of dextrose or honey in 75 millilitres of water and innoculated with either spores or liquid innoculum. Developed by Nanook

By Trollhunter (Trollhunter) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 04:11 pm:

i have a jar left over birdseed-1 that i was adding to straw . can i just case the seed , and if so are the results worth the time

By Trollhunter (Trollhunter) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 04:13 pm:

case it with ver that is .

By quote: (Quote) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 05:24 pm:

can't guarantee it'll be 'worth your time',
but it should be, as long as you've got a fruitable strain.

By Trollhunter (Trollhunter) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 08:12 pm:

okey thanks will give it a shot , and let you know how it works out .

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 11:57 pm:

How does 1 1/3 cups of Finch seed per quart jar, steeped for 45 minutes sound? I know it's gonna swell up during steeping. So how much per jar should I steep? I'm also gonna add about 25% Verm to it before I PC it. Any help?? And How much steeped Finch seed do I then add to each quart?

Thanks, Peace :-)

By relic (Relic) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 02:12 am:

i don't know how much finch swells. for rye i use 1 cup dry, per qt.

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 01:31 pm:

If someone was to take some wild bird seed, steep it for 45 min, add 25% verm, pc it for 50 min @ around 15psi, and add 4.5cc of honey water that had plenty of little fuzzy colonies in it, would it be reasonable to expect, after 24 hours that some growth would be evident?

It was at at least 80 deg F. Maybe the fuzzies werent "macerated" enough? That's all that comes to mind...

By plinkerdink420 (Plinkerdink420) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 01:52 pm:

24 to 36 hours is usually how long it is supposed to take, but i have had some take up to two to three days before showing visible signs of growth.. never worked with birdseed though, only grain

By Dr. Cubesis III (Newbieshroomer) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 04:59 pm:

Hey Mr. B.

Ok,, here is what happened to me!

I set up 12 quart jars full of birdseed
Only birdseed, no verm for me :)

I did this last friday and saturday night.

On sunday, I innoculated. 11 jars Thai with a homemade syringe, 1 jar honeywater ( an entire syringe ) cause I found it hiding in the back of the fridge and thought it was no good.

Well, my grains would not break and one of the great gurus here suggested a phone book, so I went about beating my jars to death, but, IT WORKED!!

Ok, i'll hurry and get to the part that includes your situation.. One of the jars was FILLED with little fuzzy white colonies spreading, I thought it was mold, until I realized the syringe of honeywater!!! DUH!!!

Hey mr. B, If someone is actually doing the tek you are describing... What does this " someone " plan to do with the seed after colonization. I have no idea myself, I never expect anything to work, and if it does, I am pleasantly suprised :)
Working hard at it doesn't hurt either :)

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 05:23 pm:

If I know this dude as well as I think I do. He is gonna case it in 70/30 Peat/Verm. I think he knocked up 13 quart jars of bird seed this morning and has them inncubating in an 86deg(F) bath of H2O/H2O2 in complete darkness...

By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 08:42 pm:

Birdseed is going to make it difficult to observe the beginnings of the inoculum firing up. It is not so easy to see compared to PF substrate where there is a lot of visual contrast.

But it will work. Give it 3-4 days at incubations temps and you will see cottom mycelia filling the spaces between the grains where you inoculated.

Good luck

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 06:49 pm:

Ok, I think I've got my birdseed substrate to the point it's moist enuff and sterile too. But it's a bit on the lumpy side. I beat the shit out of my poor phone book and I think I need to go in with my filet knife and get that last stubborn lump.
Here is my plan. I'm gonna PC the knife since it has a wooden handle. Then use the oven tek to open the jars. Dip the blade in 91% alcohol, flame it and do the deed. Do you think it will work without contaminating the jars? I'm sick and tired of cooking fucking bird seed. I've steeped, rinsed, not steeped, did 2:1 and on and on...

By nuecrew (Nue) on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 07:00 pm:

*ucking bird seed? Is this for fertile cockatiels?

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 07:44 pm:

Fucking right mate lol

By Nan (Nanook) on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 08:20 pm:

Give us the exact TEK, step by step that you are using... And we will have a look at it Mr. B.

By quote: (Quote) on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 11:13 pm:

i wouldn't open it if i were you.
birdseed is real easy to contam.
if it's just a few stubborn lumps, they'll colonize eventually.
better than losing it.

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 01:37 am:


It's one big lump. It'll be a bitch to birth that thing the way it is now.


I'll try it with one jar and play wait and see.

By Imok Urok2 (Imok) on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 01:56 am:

Well, bang-er more on the (phone)book mate :)
Sorry, forgot where I was (geographically) :)
Love the dialect
Anyway, check out Think I screwed up the birdeed.... Jars won't shake..,
a previous thread in this topic :)

By Nan (Nanook) on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 07:10 am:

Hell, get a needle in there and squirt 5 cc's of liquid inoculum against the glass there. Roll the liquid around on the grain if you can't get the grain to break up. It may be a few days slower, but mycelium will colonize that jar OK if you shoot it properly.

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 04:16 pm:

He decided to leave well enough alone. There are a few lumps but they will be easy enough to remove seperately when it's birth day time. He knocked 6 of em' with anywhere from 5-6cc's of Honey or Karo gave em' a quick shake and put em' away.

Hey, is it the bird-kote on this particular brand that causes the stickeyness?

By Karna (Karna) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 10:56 pm:

When birthing, I use a clean spoon (wiped with alcohol and dried) and just dig in. This also means, you can free yourself from wide mouth jars which opens up everything from pickle jars (excellent for grain), ragu jars (ditto) all the way to those enormous pepperonicini jars you get at Coscos or Sams and stuff. All these work fine with rice/brf too as long as you're willing to crumble and case or make a "flatcake".

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 11:52 pm:

Actually Karna,

I was talking about breaking up the lumps prior to innoculation. I'm not worried about once the jar is colonized. It's far enough along to withstand being touched by nice, clean hands

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 12:48 pm:

I have simmered the birdseed for 45 min, soaked it for anywhere from 8 hours to 24 hours, adjusted the water added to it, added verm, not added verm. I have used the 2:1 seed/water. And about everything else to this fucking birdseed. Is there a method that works? I have PC'd it for 60-75 minutes. It invariably comes out in one lump in the bottom of the friggin' jar. I have ruined two phone books. HELP!

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 01:09 pm:

Wal-mart ran out of Finch Seed so I have been using the Pennington's Wild Bird seed. It has basically the same ingredients and nutrient contents as the Finch seed. Major difference is it contains sunflower seed instead of sunflower chips but I take the sunflower seed out anyway. Someone at Shroomery told me it causes muck in the jars. This seed has wheat also which the finch seed does not. I'm starting to think the wheat is the problem.

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 01:10 pm:

Is there another substrate that will do my Cambodians justice? I'm willing to try something completely different at this point. I so have about a dozen jars inncubating now. 4 of which I think are duds...

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 02:19 pm:

you are over-cooking your seed, causing it to burst and release starch, which makes it
sticky, etc.
it helps to prepare you seed by gently simmering about 30 minutes, until you see the first burst grains appearing. immediately remove from heat, drain, then rinse well with cool water and drain again.
then load your jars, adding no water, and pc 45 minutes, no longer.
shake as soon as you can handle the jars without getting burned.

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 03:10 pm:

Thanks quote,

There are alot of people out there saying alot of things and they all come off like experts. But it seems like the people here have alot of respect for your knowledge. The shroomery is full of experts if you get my meaning. I have been told over there that anything under an hour for seed is a gaurentee for failure. I'll give 45 min a try.

By Roc (Rochester) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 04:06 am:

Hey Mr. B
I have always used the Pennigton Wild Bird Seed and my Thais LOVE it... I start by soaking it in a big bowl for about 30 min to remove the birdcoat (vitamins) and as it sets I use a tea strainer to remove most of the sunflower seeds that float to the top. I then rinse the mucky birdcoat stuff off after stirring it around and pulling out most of the sunflower seeds. I steep it in spring water for 30 minutes or so. Then rinse all the starch off and put it in QT jars and pc for 30 mins. Catch it right when it is cool enough to handle and thump the jars around to break things up. Cool overnight and knock up the next morning. Like I said the Thais love this stuff! Good Luck and stick with it... Quote is right about over pc'ing but if you leave the birdcoat shit on it's gets pretty sticky.
Lot of luck next go round!

By Mr. B (Argonaut) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 05:20 am:

Right and thanks! I really appreciate all the help around here and I try to pass along what I do know to those I can help.

By Dr. Cubesis III (Newbieshroomer) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 06:16 pm:

Dammit I am late.... Tough work being a professional pornographer :)

Really quickly, just wanted to share this with the people who care..

Re: My neighbors 12 quart jars done with wild bird seed substrate.

Last saturday he looked at his colonizing wild birdseed jars ( quarts ) and noticed something unusual. 4 of the 12 were taking off at a massive pace, yet the other 8 were going very slowly, the difference was painfully obvious.

He pulled the four off to the side to figure out how they were different.
2 of the four were birdseed and brf, the other two were straight birdseed,
so it wasn't a substrate problem.

Then it hit him, DUH! The 4 jars who were colonizing rapidly had FOIL covering the hole on top, the other 9 had DUCT tape covering the hole. So saturday night
he cut up some more hepa filter into inch by inch squares and fixed them to all
12 jars. He then shook them all mightily ( so air would travel thru them ) and forgot about them till last night.

He has been growing out his dextrose/karo/cloning jars in a cabinet with a home-made dark red light bulb kept on 24/7 and he ended up moving the jars to there. Just for fun he adjusted the ceramic dividers and gave four of the previous slow colonizers direct ( DARK RED ) light.

Incredible, not sure if it was changing tape for hepa material, or the warmer enviroment, he suspects both, but all 12 of the jars are now going strong with no sign of anything nasty intruding into the jars.

Anyway, live and learn....

He plans to do some LARGE Dung casing experimenting using a few fully colonized quart jars at a time, maybe even throw a few whole colonized pints into each just for fun...

Anyway, if anyone found this interesting, good!!

Take care!

By imok(imok) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 11:54 pm:

yup, they gotta have a little air to finish.
thx for sharing.

Shroom Glossary