My cakes must like to keep me waiting!

Nan's Nook : Archives : Cakes : How long...? : My cakes must like to keep me waiting!
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By jared (Jared112) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 04:49 pm:

All of my jars are fully colonized as you can see from this pic:

I have been sitting them in indirect (sometimes direct) sunlight for the past few days, and the jars have seen light pretty much every day since I incolated them. You can see by this pic that the bottom verm layer is "sucked up from the bottom of the jar" I did this my turning the jars upside down and using the tamping down TEK. So I know that the mycelium has plenty of air, no contams, and plenty of light.

When do you guys think that I should start seeing pins? I've been looking at them very closely, some of the verm from the top layer has spilled between the cake and the glass, sometimes I get excited and mistake a little chunk of verm for a pin. Would you guys say that the pins should be coming in the next few days? The jars are in a 65 degree room, I took them out of the 85 degree incubator about 3 days ago.

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 04:58 pm:

Jared, I have bad news...thoughs jars are contaminated and you'll have to throw them out.

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 05:00 pm:

Just kidding. They look fine. The pins should appear any day/time now. And when they do, you are going to want to take the cakes out of the jars quickly, if the pins get too big the cakes will be really hard to get out.

By jared (Jared112) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 05:14 pm:

Well Jim, I've been thinking and I know that whiteness that is that white can't be good, I must have got them contamed with somekind of "White Mold" that is deadly if touched. haha

But serriously, what I was wanting to do was trying to do what it says in the PF Tek and wait a while until I see lots of pins then take them out for a really fat flush. Do you think that this works good with PFCs or would you say I should just birth them as soon as they have pins? Maybe I can try an experiment and birth like 3 right now, then 3 more when they have pins then the other 5 when the have tons of pins. Maybe then I could gather more knowlege for myself as to how pinning is important to fruiting. What do you think?

By Snoopy (Snoopy) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 05:48 pm:

I have also heard that if you wait for pins you will get big flushes... I usually get 1 0z dried with 10cakes on the first flush, and I hardly wait for pins... Maybe I should, but I guess it really doesn't matter much in my case I just like to watch them grow =)

By jared (Jared112) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 05:51 pm:

THANK YOU SNOOPY! That is what I have been waiting to hear for over a month from somebody on here. 1oz dried per 10 cakes. I always wanted to know how much I will get off of these 11 cakes, from my knowlege, I was shooting for 1oz dried. thats good I'm right, and now I have something to look forward to so that I can see if I can get like 1.25oz dried from these 11 jars. At least I will know that i'll have plenty of mushrooms.

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 06:10 pm:

You might even get more than that, jared, with those full pint cakes, if it all goes well. But you see what I'm saying about the pins getting too big in the jars and wedging the cakes in there? You practically have to break the jar to get them out when that happens. Your idea about taking some out now and some out later is a good one. That magnifying glass next to the jars is hilarious. You must be eager.

By Brad (Raze) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 09:04 pm:

I think those are just half pint tall jars

By Delekhan J. Delekhan (Delekhan) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 11:30 pm:

That table the jars are sitting on looks nice too... One thing I have to say about Jared is his pics are all good. Good angles, very sharp, clear, neat pics. Some of the best I've seen on here really. The magnifying glass is a little much.... heh...


By jared (Jared112) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 12:00 am:

The magnifying glass was what I was using to look for pins, I just forgot to remove it from the scene when I took the pics. Thanks, I do know how to take good digital pics, but 80% of it is my Canon S100 Digital Elph. Its a great camera. My dad made that table too, and he built my house, good woodworker he is.

By Cbee (Cbee) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 12:29 am:

you wont need a magnifying glass when you get pins, they will be big enough to see without...

By jared (Jared112) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 12:32 am:

Thats cool, but how fast do they come out of the mycelium? Is it just a matter of hours before they show up or what? I was looking to see if I could see some small caps in there, I got all excited just to find out what I was looking at was verm granuals under the mycelium.

By Lichen (Lichen) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 12:44 am:

it takes awhile...usually a few days goes by between the first evidence of hyphal knotting and the occurance of visible pins with patient

By jared (Jared112) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 03:33 pm:

I can see some new hyphal knotting its up against the glass and its darker in color than the mycelium, its like the same color as the stipe of a mushroom. However there is no head, its just like a small round mass.

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 09:09 pm:

Jared, are those 1/2 pint or full pints? I hadn't considered they might be the tall 1/2 pints.

By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 09:39 pm:

they look like pints.

By jared (Jared112) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 10:12 pm:

They are 1/2 pints, The 8oz jelly jars, 8oz is 1/2 pint, 4oz is 1/4 pint... I was thinking of doing some 1/4 pint jars since I have such a hard time getting my mycelium to grow. Do you guys think that 1/4 pint jars would be good, or do you think they will yield smaller/less shrooms? On the upside They would probably colonize a lot faster.

By Kaijan (Kaijan) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 10:16 pm:

Read my 1/4 Tek?


By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 11:46 pm:

Jared, try the low-form 1/2pints. They are better than the tall ones that you have. They colonize faster. I'm sure you noticed that growth really slows down at the bottom. It's worth the investment to buy thoughs for your next batch.

By jack cracker (Cptcracker) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 04:58 am:

85 degrees for colonization, 75 for fruiting...
have you read about cold shocking?
mycelial knots form primordia...
don't be in such a hurry.
patience, patience, patience.
you can use the time to study up a bit so that you'll be ready for the next stage... this hobby takes some time and effort, and much patience. have you read quote's neglect tek? once you get tired of watching mycelium grow (although it is fascinating) you might want to try it.
the point is that cubies are hearty, if you keep it clean, you will have no problem.
have you prepared your fruiting environment yet?

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 07:11 am:

You all keep telling Jared to be patient...that's like telling the sun not to rise. You're almost there Jared. I'm sure we'll be seeing the pictures of your pins any minute now. Best of luck!

By jared (Jared112) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 09:41 am:

I would like to get the low form jars, but I cannot find them in my town at this time of year. I'm fine with the tall jars, I think that maybe mine just take a while to colonize because I'm not using fresh ground brown rice, I heard that has quite an effect on the growth and fruiting. I'm getting one of my friends into growing now too, and I'm going to teach him. It'll be cool, he will be doing everything I tell him, maybe I should try some casings with his shrooms.

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 07:32 pm:

Actually, I'm really inclined to think your slowing of colonization is due to the tall jars. Several times I have used both types of jars side-by-side with the same substrate in them and the low form always complete colonization much sooner. I mean no offense by this Jared, but, for a person of such limited patience, they are a very good investment. Somebody posted a day or two about an on-line ordering source. I know I'd look into it if I couldn't find any.

By Brad (Raze) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 10:49 pm:

Personally, when I made my 12 new jars up friday, I put a bit of verm on the bottom, so now I dont have to wait for the bottoms to colonize

By Cbee (Cbee) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 12:17 am:

Uhh i dont think thats entirely right, The tall jars take longer for the bottom to get colonized but the fat ones take longer for middle to colonize... think about it, they are both 1/2 pint, just where it takes longer differs so the short ones look done faster but they arent... I beleive this is true

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 12:34 am:

Actually, once the outside is entirely colonized you can take them out. The contams won't get past the outside mycellium unless you cut it open. Even if they do sneak in there, the mycellium will finish the inside before the contams can do anything.

By quote: (Quote) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 12:37 am:

most agree the short fat jars finish faster.

By jared (Jared112) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 01:01 am:

in my book fat things never finish first, cause they're FAT!! haha, maybe I'll try to order some thanks for the advice.

By Cbee (Cbee) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 01:58 am:

well i use both in either case, and find that i birth them at the same time.. but it really is a preference thing I guess, The good question would be, which jar has the most surface area for the mushrooms to grow from?? i think they would have the same, but coul db einteresting if one had more, and one had less, then youd know which is better, in my books both work fine.. the mycelium shrinks the cakes enough so that they can slip out even in the tall jars.. but ya i would prefer short jars, but in my case i went one week and they had them in, and the next when i wanted to buy more they were out, so I had to do with tall one =) haha what a wierd conversation

By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 02:49 am:

ya i missed out on the last few days walmart was selling jars they were only $2.50 a dozen! now it sounds like everyone is having troubles finding them. i like shorter jars. what is the shipping on 12 jars?

By Stewie (Stew) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 03:26 am:

Jars are fairly heavy and therefore expensive to ship.I've looked online and the shipping is as much as the jars cost or more.

By jared (Jared112) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 03:28 am:

about 4.50 seems like an average price. so maybe $15 or more to get some jars off the internet like at or something like that. They never seem to have them in stock though.

By Imok Urok2 (Imok) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 01:19 am:

Jared said "in my book fat things never finish first, cause they're FAT!! haha"
Then I guess you don't want any "FAT" shrooms...kin I have yours then :)

By jared (Jared112) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 01:28 am:

ok, ok... I take it back I DO want some fat shrooms, everything in moderation I guess

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 01:32 am:

a fat wallet is nice, too.

By Kaijan (Kaijan) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 02:51 am:

only if its not fat with receipts


By Snoopy (Snoopy) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 05:43 am:

You all may want to check out the local supermarket I never thought that mine would have it... but I stumbled upon them in the... get this CANNING ISLE.. they have tons of different types and I bought out all 5 boxes of jars, and the next week bang they were restocked.... quite handy.

By jared (Jared112) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 05:47 am:

Man, I wish I lived in your town, I can never find the jars I want and always have to settle for the shitty tall ones. have 2 cases of them already I need some good low form jars.

By Dr. Cubesis III (Newbieshroomer) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 07:51 pm:

I myself am using the tall skinny quilted jelly jars, among others And colonization is as rapid as my pint jars, quicker even. I mean, I know the half pints are prolly the fastest, but it seems to me that if you get your ratios right, ANYTHING will colonize, and colonize fairly quickly at that, am I wrong?

Oh, and while searching the thrift stores for more quart jars ( to continue experiments with grain, so far unsuccessful ) I found a bunch of Kerr wide mouth tapered quart jars at one of them, NEVER seen these before. Never seen the pattern before either and from all my antique jar shopping I have begun to notice most jars are the same, ball has had the same designs for at least 20 years, jusding from some of the reciepts I have found in the boxes. ( They used to sost just a couple dollars a box to! :0( ) I was ecstatic, I can do half or three quarter quarts of brf cakes and just pop them out. easy as a 1/2 pint wide mouth...

Anyway, now I just need to find lids that fit!!! LOLOLOL!!!! Because there were no lids on them!!

Hey Jared, good luck!

Crazy Crazy!!