|By Tigress113 (Runigun) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 07:57 pm:|
Ok, here's the issue. We have a major green meanie problem! We've bleached down the entire grow room, every surface, and bombed it with anti mold disenfectant...still, green meanie. We've put lime with the perlite casing...still green meanie. When I posted about this problem before, a wise grower told me that green meanie can survive even if you thoroughly clean out a room. I guess my question is, should I just construct a new grow room...is it possible that green meanie would just be really concentrated in the grow room and area around it? We've lost 48 jars due to this shit, and we can't take it anymore!
Thanks to all,
|By Tigress113 (Runigun) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 08:21 pm:|
Oh, yeah, we've been running a hepa filter 24/7 with these contaminated cakes!
|By nuecrew (Nue) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 08:25 pm:|
All I can offer is a very good thread written by "Nanook of the North (Nan). In the archives, "Straw tek tips" Nanook/Monday,August13,2001 - 02:43am. Although it is under the straw section it is the best advice on sanitary procedure and just might help you in some way. Straw Tek Tips
|By An guy (Boomer) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 08:31 pm:|
What about your other stuff- syringes maybe contammed? Jars contammed before put in the room?
All jars contammed- man, taht's something with the verm layer on top- my house is a mess, I mean bad, with all the animals that live here. I have contams, but they're from the innoc procedure, I know by the pattern.
so maybe a dirty needle, dirty spores, something?
If you've done all that, I'd way say that room ain't your problem, it's elswhere. IMO, jars don't contam from the atmosphere- they contam from what's actively put in them. That's most case scenario, anyways.
Someone else might have a more learned opinion
|By Tigress113 (Runigun) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 08:51 pm:|
Contam is showing up after birthing, so we can't see where it could be something put in jars. We follow PF procedures to the letter, and receive our syringes from PF. The reason I was wondering if it was the atmosphere was because we see 100% colonization, contam free, in the jars. We only see the green meanie after we birth. We bleach out the containers in between dunks and before we start a new batch, so you can see why we are confused!!! We've tried everything we can think of, and thanks for your advice!!!
Maybe we should colonize longer?
|By Karna (Karna) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 10:02 pm:|
If you are using, as you put it, "a grow room", eventually some trich will creep in no matter what you do short of labaratory sterility. However, if you are getting it before the first flush, here is my suggestion.
Before you do anything, make absolutely sure that what you are getting is in fact trich and not bluing of the cakes due to bruising or water (an excellent tip from quo - contams like trich will wash off, bluing won't)
First downsize. It's always easier to control a box than a room. Shift to maybe 6 or seven cakes in a small aqarium or something and keep all your sanitary procedures in place. Isolate this box in an area that is easy to keep clean.
Trichoderma is primarily carried by us on our skin and stuff, so when you come in contact with cake area, make sure you clean yourself off good and put on some clean clothes and stuff. Always before handling cakes, douse your hands/arms in rubbing alcohol and allow to air dry.
Keep pets AWAY from the area!!
If you use a humidifier, take it apart periodically (unless it's unltrasonic, then don't unless you know what you are doing), change the filter, clean out the insides well with a good strong disinfectant. Add a good amount of peroxide to the humidifier water.
If you use perlite, you can use some peroxide mixed in with the water plus you can presterilize the peroxide in the oven at 300F for a couple hours and let cool before using.
Always use only distilled water for perlite/humidifier.
If you case your cakes, dust some CaCO3 (pure calcium carbonate I think at least is a bit better than hydrated lime. Try your local health store in the supplements section)over the crumbled cakes bnefore applying the casing layer. Also, mix some in with the casing formulation.
As a last ditch effort, when you birth the cakes, roll them in CaCO3 all over and dust off the excess before entering them into the terrarium.
I can't think of anything else.
Once you have clean success on the small scale, SLOWLY expand.
|By quote: (Quote) on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 02:31 pm:|
also, fresh air exchanges are vital in combating the green mold, it likes stagnant moist air so increase your air exchanges to 5-6 times daily .
i noticed you mention a perlite casing, that's pretty unusual, not many use it, maybe that is part of the problem. try switching to vermiculite or coir.
a better idea of the time line might help..
how long do the cakes last before going green ?
are they flushing ?
do they only contam after dunking ?
did they all go at once, or spaced out over time ?
etc. the more details you provide, the easier the diagnosis.
|By Jim (Jim) on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 07:48 pm:|
maybe something with the hepa filter?
|By Tigress113 (Runigun) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 01:01 am:|
We've been doing the fresh air exchange 3-4 times a day, so we'll up that. I goofed in my first post...we use perlite in the grow chamber for humidity and case with vermiculite. We birth the cakes, and I'd say within 2 days at most, we see contam. Starts off with a few cakes and usually out of a batch of 12 one or two survive. Some have been saved, with lime spray application and cutting out the offending section (making sure it is completely cut out). Mostly, we wind up throwing them out when they are contaminated. We just thought we'd see what happened if you tried to salvage the cake. I'm thinking Karna had the answer with our hands...we wash them, but probably not as good as we should. We will try liberally applying alcohol to our skin after showering and putting on clean clothes, and see how that works. Also, we weren't using distilled water in our perlite, so that could be a reason too. We plan to bleach out the containers, bleach and disenfect the room (oh the joy), wash up, alcohol up, and see what happens! However, if you see any flaws in our dastardly plans, let us know!
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 01:24 am:|
well, tigress, all I can offer is my experience, and my conditions.
I have a terrerium full of wafertek trays and cakes, side by side. Today I added a couple more cakes. I wash my hands with tap water, sometimes no soap. I don't use alcohol, I don't shower, I don't use a hairnet :0)
I use tapwater in the perlite, haven't changed the perlite or cleaned the terrerium for four months. My operation has dusty clothing hanging above it, because it's in a closet. I try to be brief when opening and closing the terrerium. I do not sterilize my vermiculite when casing. I never see contams in any cakes until the fourth flush.
Does that help? Sorry, just kidding.
Sterilize your terrerium with a rag or sponge soaked with bleach water, change your perlite, use purified water, cover with saran wrap...make new jars, be certain they're contam free at all stages, and you should be fine
|By Dr. Cubesis III (Newbieshroomer) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 01:43 am:|
Burn the whole house down, and rebuild, it's your only hope.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 07:55 am:|
Another tip. Try a room ionizer or ozone generator in your grow room, then get your fruiting chambers up high. The spore float in the room will be reduced by the ionizer, they neutralize the charge on the offending spores and they drop to the floor.
Make sure the bins are Sterile and I would toss the old Perlite.
I too considered burning my house down and starting fresh... However I begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Trich spores are not nearly so viable after they get a few months old, as long as you allow no new Trich to sporulate, the virulence of the contam problem drops significantly after 3-4 months. Raise the grow chambers up at least 4 feet off the floor, add an ionizer, and take the steps you outlined.
I have thought about one of those HEPA vacuum cleaners but the motor on my old vacuum refuses to die...