Jar flipping drawbacks

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By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 11:28 pm:

Are there any drawbacks to flipping a colonizing jar over to allow the CO2 to sink out? A FOAF has noticed that the vermiculite drops to the lid as the cake sits in its original position once flipped. In this orientation, I suppose the vermiculite would still be blocking contaminants but no longer providing moisture. Is this a problem? Thanks!

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 11:40 pm:

Actually, the verm barrier should be dry during colonization. It isn't until after birth that the verm is made wet to give moisture to the cake. The moisture comes from the substrate mix. So you do not need to worry.

By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 12:09 am:

Cool, that makes sense. Thanks!

By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 01:51 am:

I have a quiestion.
I have never really figured this out.
you know when you birth the jars and thiers still the upper verm layer still thier,, people say to scrape it off but should I do this??????

because when I birth my cakes I never really have and verm on top anymore, it's all mycelium so should I just not scrape it off and place them in the terrium this way????

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 10:26 am:

There is no reason to scrape it off other than so it won't make a big mess upon birth. Also, that gets rid of the contams that have built up there. And you don't want so much that the pins can't get through. I guess that's actually a couple reasons.

By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 05:05 pm:

well shit I know your right, so maby I should go back into my terrium and scrape the bottom's a little bit???
thiers really no vermiculite on my cakes its ALL mycelium.
but alright I gusse I'll do that thanx

By quote: (Quote) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 05:16 pm:

i only dump off the loose, uncolonized verm., anything else stays attached.

as far as drawbacks to flipping,
it definitly increases the risks of contaminants, as the verm. barrier can shift, allowing unsterile air to enter.
i only recommend flipping if the cake is stalled on just a small section of the jar's bottom, as a 'last resort' before birthing to cut out the uncolonized spot.

By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 06:23 pm:

Very true Quote. That makes sense too.

By jared (Jared112) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 04:01 pm:

I was looking at my jars, and noticed that the cake seperated from the top verm layer. So I've been having my jars sit upside down, I did the tamping down on the jar, like when you make it, but the jar was upside down, and it made the whole cake clapse down about 3/4" I know that this probably isn't hurting anything, but now maybe my cakes will colonize faster with more air at the bottom (now the top) of the jar.



So what do you guys think, has this ever happened to you? Will it speed up growth? Or is it just nothing big?

P.S. Oh ya, I forgot to mention that I put about 2 tablespoons of verm in the bottom of all the jars to absorb water and help speed up colonization.

By quote: (Quote) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 04:57 pm:

happens all the time when you flip jars,
esp. after the cake has shrunk a bit.
the bottom should colonize, assuming no contams were sucked in when the cake moved.
but seriously, jared, you are just being too impatient here. it's foolish to be flipping your cakes every few days, or trying to tap spores out of a cap, etc. lots of the things you say/do show clearly that you are trying/wanting to 'force' things along instead of patiently waiting for nature to take it's course.
if you aren't careful/lucky, you're going to end by screwing up those cakes before they ever fruit.

By quote: (Quote) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 05:03 pm:

hey jared,
i was just thinking about what you said..
if there's 2 tablespoons of verm. in the bottom, they won't look like they are finished when they actually are.
that is, the white mycellia won't completely colonize that verm. like it does the cake.
your jars may, in fact, be done already.
how long have the sides been completely covered like in that 1st pic ?

By jared (Jared112) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 05:11 pm:

about a few days, but I'm growing PF classics, so I am waiting for them to pin invitro. That's why I was asking ?s about the temps because I wanted to know if I should lower the temp for the pins to start forming or if they form fine at high mid 80's temps?

And yes Quote I do think I can speed things along, I'm letting them grow God's way, and I'm giving them a swift kick in the ass every few days to make them hurry up.

By Brad (Raze) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 09:22 pm:

I have a Q on flipping. Is it better to carefully flip, w/o disturbing the cake. Or to tap it so the verm compresses and the bottom of the cake has a small space between it and the glass?
The reason why I ask this, is because before today, I had neverheard of tapping it. THen I saw it on a post somewhere. Just wondering if its actually wise or not

By Nan (Nanook) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 10:25 pm:

Flipping can cause the cake to dislodge and drop on the verm barrier/lid, sucking air up into the jar. This can be a good thing or a bad thing.

When it's required, smacking the jar is done to break the substrate away from the bottom of the jar. When it's a bad thing it sucks up contams into the uncolonized substrate.

You have to be careful to be clean if your cakes are moving in the jars and displacing air when you flip.

If you are flipping and the cake holds to the glass, no problem, C02 can bleed out without the chance of contams entering.

I do not flip. I find that with a good shot of inoculum and a proper incubation the jars colonize at a satisfactory rate and flipping has no effect nor is it required to get 100% colonized jars in a timely fashion.

It is a helpful practice if your jars are stalling up with the bottoms uncolonized.

By Lichen (Lichen) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 10:41 pm:

I have a question about flipping, too. But flatcakes, not jars. I have asked this before, but didn't get an answer.
Why is it a good idea to flip the flatcaketek when it is finished colonizing? Eatualive says flip the flatcake out of the casserole dish onto the dish's lid with a layer of saran wrap between them. He also looks like he gets better flushes than I am getting. So, until I have some more flatcakes to experiment with, can someone clue me in here? (actually I am using wafertek, not eatualive's flatcake, but it's sureley similar)

By Brad (Raze) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 10:49 pm:

I have 1/2 pint tall jars. So the bottoms are going really slow. I've flipped them, leaving them for a day like that, several times now.
The one is like 98% complete and has pretty much stopped. I thougth this method could help

By quote: (Quote) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 11:14 pm:

it would be better to flip them once, and leave them that way,
than to be flipping back and forth every other day.
that's just increasing the odds of contams getting in, for no good reason.
of course, fully colonized cakes are different.