Wet Spot Contam

(The Bane of Grain)

Nan's Nook : Archive : Contams : Bacterial Contams

Posted by: DirtyWOP Dec 04 02, 05:09 PM GMT

toss it if you see it

Wet Spot Contam on rye ^^^

Posted by: Nanook Dec 04 02, 05:38 PM GMT
Best treatment is to increase your pc time. If you are pc'ing quarts for 70 mins and getting wetspot, increasing pc time to 90 mins should reduce this contam to manageable proportions. A presoak can help it is said, I like a pre-boil better... 9er Tek uses fully cooked rice with a 30 min pc time for pints... Quarts need 45 mins in the pc with 9er (larger jars take longer )... Raw whole grain takes 90 mins minimum in the pc imo. Also see: Pro's Thread on Rye

"Wet Spot; Sour Rot - Bacillus sp.

In grain spawn jars, one commonly encounters Bacillus, which sometimes survives the sterilization process as heat resistant endospores. . A dull gray to mucus-like brownish slime characterized by a strong but foul odor variously described as smelling like rotting apples, dirty socks or burnt bacon. Bacillus makes uncolonized grain appear excessively wet, hence the name "Wet Spot". Pallid to whitish ridges along the margins of individual grain kernels characterize this contaminant. Bacillus primarily reproduces through simple cell division. In times of adverse environmental conditions, especially heat, a single hardened spore forms within each parent cell body - bacterial endospores, which can survive high temperatures for prolonged time.

The most practical method for eliminating bacterial endospores involves soaking the grain at room temperature 12 - 24 hours prior to sterilization. Endospores, if viable, will germinate within that time frame and then be susceptible to standard sterilization procedures. And, new endospores won't form in the moist environment of the resting jar of grain. "

Posted by: Chronic007 Dec 04 02, 05:57 PM GMT
arrggghhh!!!, i hate that fucking contam more than any others!!!!


Posted by: DirtyWOP Dec 04 02, 08:53 PM GMT
me too
It's the one I get the most....

Posted by: Fred Garvin Dec 04 02, 09:26 PM GMT
Good picture. Sadly I have seen this myself sad.gif

Posted by: ion Dec 06 02, 07:01 PM GMT
Hey, what does this wet-spot stuff smell like and look like on BR?

Yeah, I know... the "omniscient ion" has a question?! OMG! It's armageddon! laugh.gif tongue.gif


Posted by: Nanook Dec 07 02, 04:41 AM GMT
It looks like wet slimed rice wink.gif

Trust me, I know biggrin.gif

Posted by: DirtyWOP Dec 07 02, 08:41 AM GMT
It smells like a sour rag and pretty much liquifies any substrate but pf cakes......

especially whole grain rice.......

Posted by: DirtyWOP Dec 07 02, 12:56 PM GMT
Hows about a little trich to spice up the thread?
It is only beginning to sporulate at a few points. Very grey nasty stuff...

Posted by: DirtyWOP Dec 07 02, 12:59 PM GMT
...and blue grains to contrast our sickly grey.....

Posted by: ion Dec 08 02, 01:42 AM GMT
Ahh... Ok, thanks guys!

Hey, I thought trich was supposed to be green... huh.gif

I just realized I don't know much about contams. I don't ever get them... {knocking on wood} ow! that hurts my head! tongue.gif

The only contam I ever had was the "apple cider smelling bacteria" in a butter dish I decided to fill with boiled rice and chunks of old cake... yes, that was very early in my mushroom days...

Thanks, again! wub.gif


Posted by: DirtyWOP Dec 08 02, 08:15 AM GMT
"Hey, I thought trich was supposed to be green... "

the spores are green.....

Every once in a while you will get some that doesn't sporulate right away and just looks like whispy gray mycelium. I just happened to catch it at that stage. It happens very quickly, esp. in stagnant air. I think the filter patch is what made it take so long to sporulate.

Wet contam?

  Subtopic Posts Updated Creator

By Cbee (Cbee) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 10:34 pm:

Ive read about if your jars look really wet it is prolly contam... well I looked at mine today and 2 of the 5 i have are wet lookin at the bottom where the mycelium hasnt reached yet. one of the cakes i scraped all the uncolonized shit off and birthed it but was curious what i should do with the other? will this get rid of that crappy stuff that makes my mycelium stop growing?

By quote: (Quote) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 10:40 pm:

i think you need to be patient.
it's perfectly normal for the bottom to be the last to colonize.
if anything, flip the jar over so the uncolonized portion is up. also remove any tape from holes.
that's usually enough to get them to finish.
the thing you're talking about is wet-spot bacteria, and while pretty common to whole grain, it's pretty rare on pf cakes.

By Cbee (Cbee) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:20 pm:

ya these cakes arent PF, they are

20 Tablespoons of Vermiculite (dry)
10 Tablespoons of organic Bran Flakes (grnd)
7 Tablespoons of Brown Rice (grnd)
3 Tablespoons of Flax Seed Meal
Bottled Mineral Water (as needed)

from http://www.thehawkseye.com/ryche_tips.html

still think i should wait it out? The one i took apart and took off the bit not colonized didnt smell too nice...

By Lichen (Lichen) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:38 pm:

I may take heat for saying it, but with cakes, simple is better. PFTek is a simpler design, therefore superior to Ryche's tek. Also, I notice that the recipe you just posted directs you to use 'bottled water (as needed)' Is there any chance that one jar might be wetter than another?

I'd wait it out; then you will know what happens if you wait when you think maybe you shouldn't.

My best suggestion is: next time try pftek in low-profile 1/2 pint jars.

By ggg (Ggg) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:42 pm:



By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 12:25 am:

that's alot richer mixture, that in itself will slow things down alot.
and flax seed is notorious for problems,
that, coupled with the smell, may indeed portend a bout of wet-spot.
if so, you're pretty much screwed.
i'd observe it a few more days, but if the wet spot grows or the smell intensifies,
get rid of it.

By Cbee (Cbee) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 01:05 am:

no way of saving it eh? its like 90% done, argg hate stupid contams

By Lichen (Lichen) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 01:30 am:

well, if you're worried that it's not making it, birth it and scrape off the uncolonized substrate...it'll go ahead and heal over

By Cbee (Cbee) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 03:47 am:

alrighty, well ill see its condition tomorrow, thanks for the advice quo lichen... always use the help

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 11:01 am:

it's just plain bad practice to try to salvage contaminated substrates.
believe me, i've tried plenty.
but the bottom line is that scraping off that spot is still going to leave behind billions of bacteria, which will breed and spred thru out your environment, striking you again and again as you continue.
not to mention the waste byproducts of the bacteria that the cake has absorbed and passes into the mycellia.
this nonsense of trying to salvage already contam'd substrate is probably responsible for causing more problems down the road than any other single mistake.
be ruthless.
if it contams,
get rid of it asap.
get it out of your grow area,
and put your energy into getting it right next time.

By Lichen (Lichen) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 02:36 pm:

sound advice. However, we were laboring under the conclusion that it hasn't contammed as yet, but is still clean, and were working to forestall a problem. In that case if there is a solid colonized portion, it will work. Lazy, mycologically speaking. Possibly teaching bad habits and encouraging laziness, but in Cbee's situation, a possibility. Sorry, this is not the soundest advice, Cbee, because of those factors, and Quote is right...if this jar is contammed, you should toss it

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 03:14 pm:

true enough, we're not sure it's contam'd yet.
my mistake.  

By Cbee (Cbee) on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 09:11 am:

if it grows to 100% it means that its not contamed? or how should i tell because it is not takin over the spot that looked wet

By Nan (Nanook) on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 09:58 am:

My 2 cents?

Take a look at the pic posted by Breeze in Foil Covers. If your jar has a soggy bottom it can be sterile but the mycelium may never colonize the bottom.

If your substrate has formed a solid compact goo on the bottom of the jar it is best to try again.

There is one trick you can try since you are at 90%. Wipe the cover of a phone book down with alcohol, wipe the top of the jars (be careful alcohol vapors are bad for shrooms don't get any in the holes). Wash your hands. Smack the jar, lid down, on the phone book and break the seal the soaked subtrate has on the bottom of the jar. Once the substrate breaks free of the glass leave the jar upside down, incubate, and hope mycelium races across the freshly exposed substrate and seals it off.

If the jars go to 100% it is safe to assume they are clean cultures.

By Cbee (Cbee) on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 10:14 am:

thanks man, Ill try that

By Cbee (Cbee) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 01:15 am:

ok heres the deal, my jar i thought was contamed has completely colonized... should i keep it? or toss? its 100%..

By Lichen (Lichen) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 02:13 am:

lol, if it's 100%, why toss it? It's fine

By Cbee (Cbee) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 04:07 am:

i dunno... i think the 3 hrs of physics studying got to me

By Lichen (Lichen) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 05:53 am:

birth it...it's ready
wait a week or until it pins

By Cbee (Cbee) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 08:35 am:

its only been colonized 100% for a day.... i think i should wait... no? i mean if i can birth now thats sweet but wont it lessen the flush sizes? thats what ive heard ppl say...

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 11:54 am:

wait for pinning.

By Cbee (Cbee) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 09:59 pm:

ok that was the plan, thanks quo =)

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