Nan's Nook : Archives : Cakes : How long...? : Pinning???
  Subtopic Posts Updated Creator
Birth before pinning  6   awalter44
Light  -    
Pinning Casings  -    
More pin shots [eyecandy]  17   jared
Question about pins  30   Kevin Smith
Temps  -    
What's a pin? What is pinning?  3    

By wycrobro (Newman) on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 05:54 pm:

Hey Im just wondering if anybody has any pics of the very first stages of pinning(I cant tell if its pinning or just mycelium growing upward)

Also i have been keeping my temp around 71-75 but when i woke up this morning the temp had droped to 62 ahahah, they have been in fruiting one for 5 days and one for 2 am i done for ??

any info or pics would be sweet

By Lichen (Lichen) on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 06:46 pm:

I'm assuming you're talking about cakes. The temp drop will not hurt much, certainly not enough to cause serious harm. Pinning is very easy to identify...when it occurs you will know. Pins look like tiny round dots or knots, and very soon begin to look precisely like micro-shrooms. You can't miss it. Just be patient...time tells all. I'd say you're ok

By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 07:21 pm:

how the hell do u get flat cakes to pin????
I usally have no problem with pinning at all,,
but my flat cake has been the terrium for a week and a few days now... I't has the good fuzz on it but no pins..
maby it's because only, my flat cake is in the terrium.. all my other cakes flushed out (DEAD)

By Lichen (Lichen) on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 07:30 pm:

you just have to long as contams don't crop up, your flatcake is fine. Just be patient

By Nan (Nanook) on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 08:12 pm:

Any Tek that involves dismembering a cake into pieces and casing is going to take a full 7-10 days longer than PF Tek because the mycelia has to re-knit. Patience is key.

By greenthumb (Greenthumb) on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 08:22 pm:

Hello Newman
Does this pic help?
I hope so.
check this out too


Is it not?


[See: Patrick's Sliced Flat Cake, Double-End Casing Tek]

By wycrobro (Newman) on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 03:12 am:

Hey there, Im actualy not using cakes, I took 4 full pint jars of rye grain (100% colonized) and put an 3/4 of an inch of 50/50 on the bottom of my rubbermade cont. Then crumbled the 4 cakes, then put another 3/4 inch of 50/50 on top.

I can see little white pin looking things, but this is my first attempt and i dont know.
they are about 4 mm high and only about 1mm thick
but I first spotted them 2 days ago and they have only gotten 1mm taller.

thanx for the info and pics
any more help or ideas would be sweet

By Nan (Nanook) on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 04:32 am:

Sounds like a flush coming on

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 01:52 pm:

you're about to become a daddy.

By Scotsman (Barrowland) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:00 pm:

2 start with i was sure then my friends here told me , when the cakes put in the terarium the bottom of the jar side should face the top of the terrarium.ReadingSimple Cubensis grow tek it tells u..loosen lid turn jar upsidedown slide jar free from cake then pick up cake and turn it over so its facing right side up it tells u..its important that the cake must be fruited sitting the same way as it was during incubating or the shrooms will grow from the bottom and this is wrong.This contradicts what i was told here but i know some teks are outdated and me being a beginner and my cake just about ready i want to be completly sure.SO THE SIDE WITH THE DRY VERM FACES THE BOTTOM OF TERRARIUM AND THE WHITE SIDE FACES THE TOP...

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:06 pm:

it just doesn't matter which way,
you can even lay them on their sides.
the shrooms will use gravity to orient themselves, and grow towards the light.
but yes, i normally put 'em white side up,
so i can then pile on a little damp vermiculite.

By Sillycybin (Sillycybin) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:15 pm:

Scotsman, doesn't matter which side faces up. You can flip them in between flushes if you like but initially, it doesn't much matter. The position the mycelium grew in won't really affect the direction the pins grow. Light does that.

I think it only matters if you have let the cake pin invitro. You wouldn't want to set your cake down on the side that has pins sprouting up :)

By Scotsman (Barrowland) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:19 pm:

i had to quqadruple check to be on the safe side.......but thats it i will sleep 2nite.........thanx all

By nuecrew (Nue) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:21 pm:

Why haven't the Space Shuttle guys tried growing some shrooms in outer space? Would they grow straight out in the absence of light? Be a cool looking cake.

By Scotsman (Barrowland) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:22 pm:

what does adding verm to the top do

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:26 pm:

two things.
it helps regulate moisture, both by slowing evaporation and by gently adding moisture to the cake over time [the verm. is wetted]
it also helps trigger more pin formation, leading to more shrooms.
a pretty good idea, all in all.

By Kaijan (Kaijan) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:42 pm:

Anyone ever have good results w/o using DE casing.. or verm?

Would having an automated terrarium with 100% RH and 24/7 air exchange eliminate need for verm or would it still be a good idea to have it?


By Scotsman (Barrowland) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:53 pm:

thats noted quote..i wil be trying that 2

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:56 pm:

you'd still get better pinset, kai, with the added verm. there's just something about it that seems to help pins to form.

By ion ewe (Ion) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 07:07 pm:

Still a good idea to case, Kai. Ambient humidity is to promote fruiting and keep the cakes from drying out when not cased fully. When the mycelium feels it is safe (humid enough to get all the way to sporulation without the risk of producing a shroom that dries out before spreading spores) it will fruit. Also, in nature the thallus of the mycelia is always covered in something which retains moisture and provides it directly to the needy mycelia by a sort of wicking action. Mycelium has no mechanisms to absorb water from air; only from surrounding and internal matrices of solids. Hope that helps.


By Kaijan (Kaijan) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 08:36 pm:

yes it did.. thanks.


By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 10:31 am:

Quote, it has always seemed to me that the added moisture of the verm is what causes pinning there. Just like when you set a cake directly on the perlite and that connection spot is where a lot of (super wet) shrooms pop up. That is just my guess, what other reason could there be beside that it is the area where there is the most moisture? That would make the two things you mentioned earlier one in the same. And when you get the shrooms that pop up on the edge of the verm, it (seems to me) that it is because that spot gets water, light and oxygen the best. But this is all theoretical.

By nick waters (Nickobod) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 12:30 am:

Today I noticed about 8 pinners in a few of my jars. I'm going to wait a day or two more and transfer them to a "poorman's". However, I didn't know if the cakes needed to be placed on some kind of nutrient source before being inserted into the terrarium. I was just going to make a moist mixture of brown rice powder and vermiculite, but if there are better ways, I'd appreciate the info.


By Mindlesss (Mindlesss) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 12:51 am:

I think that would be a very bad idea, because the brown rice would only contam everything. The cakes dont realy need another nutreient source every thing they need is in the cake. You could use moist perlite in your poormans to keep humidity but dont put you cake directly on it use the jar lids or somthing like that.

By Lichen (Lichen) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 12:53 am:

the cakes have all the nutrients they need but they need moisture. Put them on lids filled with vermiculite and soaked with purified water, then pour a small fistful on top of the cakes and soak that down, too, then transfer into the fruiting chamber. This is called double-end casing, and is all your cakes will need for the first flush.

By Herman Manderchuck (Youenjoymyself) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 01:24 am:

The Brown rice would be suicide!!!!!!Please don't do that....If anything use the casing tek Lichen talked about...

By ggg (Ggg) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 01:33 am:

cake info

By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 09:22 pm:

OK, is a jar 100% colonized when the mycelium is all around the BRF area or also the vermiculite area at the top and bottom (double-ended tek)?

Secondly, when should a jar be exposed to light for the standard PF tek? I know with Invitro, it should have light from the point of innoculation, but what about standard PF since I have read you should wait for pins before birthing?

Thirdly, when should light be exposed to the jars for the Flatcake tek? It seems like they should not be exposed to light at all since you are supposed to wait 2 weeks after 100% colonization before crumbling them and pins are bad at that point, right?


By Snoopy (Snoopy) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 09:41 pm:

Well after the jar has reached 100% on the outside you should still give it 4-5 days to let the mycelium reach the center of the cake, and than birth.
Second: What I have done in the past is as soon as I see the mycelium has covered the entire cake, then I expose it to the light. This will allow it to be exposed for the 4-5 days while the inside is colonizing.
Third: Once you are sure the inside is colonized you can crumble and case via flatcake method. You don't need to expose to light if you are going to cumble and case, because you won't need the pins anyhow.
Happy shroomin'!!

By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 10:03 pm:

Its a prefrence thing, you can give your jars light from day. i give them light once they are almost fully colonized on the outside, so the time i get pins the center is colonized and its time to birth. you dont need to give them light if your going to break the cakes up. Its darn close to being fully colonized if its not, give it a few more days and play it safe.
Have a good one

By Brad (Raze) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 11:41 pm:

Do you need to give them a lot of light? I'm doing the whole stealth thing here, and they're hiding in my incubator under my desk. My parents would never come into my room and start opening things up, but if it was sitting there w/o a lid, or I had jars full of white stuff all over they might get a little concearned

By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 11:56 pm:

brad are you wondering about pinning or when you birth it? 30-1 hr is enough to trigger pinning and about a hour when fruiting.

By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 12:29 am:

Isn't it hard to keep the jars from pinning for the Flatcake tek for 2 weeks after 100% colonization? Will pins ruin it (rotting)?

By Snoopy (Snoopy) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 12:35 am:

Not really hard, just don't expose it to light. If you expose it to light it will trigger the reaction of growing pins. One way or another tho they will form. I suppose a few pins here and there wouldn't hurt but if you had serious shroom action going and you crumbled and cased, there may be a slight issue with rot, but not much. Rot isn't good... so better to just play it safe ... crumble n case before pins appear

By Brad (Raze) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 01:00 am:

Kilborn - no, I mean when waiting for invitro pins. And after pinning 5 min a day of light is more than ample FYI

By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 01:04 am:

heard you can get away with 15 min FYI. wouldnt suggest doing anything less.

By Brad (Raze) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 01:13 am:

I've heard of an experiement where the mushrooms were inoculated, and colonized in absolute darkness. A one millisecond strobe was enough to initiate growth.
All it uses it for is direction

By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 01:32 am:

no comment brad.

mr.tambourine man best of luck to you.

By ggg (Ggg) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 07:05 am:


Flatcake tek directions, step #4-- "Remove any........."
You can clean your cakes, then case or flatcake or whatever.
Have fun, good luck and stay SUPER STERILE!!

Shroom Glossary

By I feel so weird (Phishgrower) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 07:05 am:

Hello all, I have a flat cake and 3 pf cakes in my terranium. They've been in there for a week now. They look great and the humidity is high enough--the walls are covered in condensation. I dunked at birth, I fan 3-5 times a day and I give them ample light. The strain is b+. Anyone have any idea what might be taking so long? Am I just being impatient? I've looked in the archive and everything I've found I've either done or doesn't apply to me. I also have a casing in a different terranium that has only poked through in a few areas and has been like that for 4-5 days with no increase. Time is running down as I will have to leave my house in a couple weeks. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

By quote: (Quote) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 12:11 pm:

b+ can be stubborn at times.
reduce fanning to once daily, that should help elevate co2 levels to trigger pinning.
then just be patient...

By Brad (Raze) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 10:21 pm:

To MR pin invitro? When I hit 100% (any day now) should I immediately birth, or wait?

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 10:39 pm:

wait for pinning, start giving light asap.

By jared (Jared112) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 02:55 pm:

I finally got some pins on about 4 of my jars. I think the others may just be a day behind or so. However I don't know if I should be calling them pins, because they don't have the distinguished brown colored veil. They are just more like blobs that are the same color as the stipe of the fruit.

Would you say that now would be a good time to birth the cakes, or wait for more pins. I don't really see why waiting for more pins on PFCs is important, because they don't have distinguished flushes. Maybe somebody could throw me some advice here.

By quote: (Quote) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 04:01 pm:

yup, them's pins.
you can birth now since you're so impatient.

By Brad (Raze) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 09:52 pm:

Well, I dunked my first jar today. Its now sitting in water, but now this question comes to mind: Should I have waited for pins? I know that you're supposed to wait for pins before birthing, but after dunking I can still keep it in the jar for pins. There is a lot of mycillial knotting, which I assume are the the start of pins. A few of my other jars have pins, but are a few days away from 100%.
Right now its on a sheld, with lots light, and lots of water. The reason why I dunked is because I thought the coldness of the water and the rehydration would help get me some mushrooms flowing. Was a I wrong to think this?
I know I'm being paranoid, but its my first time, what more can you expect :P

By jared (Jared112) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 10:06 pm:

Sounds good to me. Here is a pic of one of my jars that was notting. before the knots got that dark they looked like white cotton balls.

By Brad (Raze) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 10:07 pm:

Sorry, your pic didnt work.

By Nan (Nanook) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 10:09 pm:

You don't have to wait for pins. You can birth and dunk at 100% without a problem. I do it all the time.

By Brad (Raze) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 10:12 pm:

Oh wait, now it does :P
That was odd... it was just a box with an X before I posted this. Meh
By the way though, arent those pins? I was told that the knotting was fluffs that were like a circle with a bumb, and the pins were yellowy

By Brad (Raze) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 10:13 pm:

Thanks nan.... They say to wait for pins means a higher flush... are you saying this isnt true?
I never did understand why anyways.

By Nan (Nanook) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 11:39 pm:

I thinks it helps with the PF Classics and Albinos.

Hawaiians... Don't bother waiting, birth them at 100% colonized and you will get fruit a week or more earlier than otherwise... Some jars never pin invitro so you could wait a really really long time...

It's strain specific... I grow strains that fruit early and don't require invitro pinning.

By Brad (Raze) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 12:00 am:

Its Matias Romeros... They do pin invitro though, as I already have some on certain cakes

By quote: (Quote) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 12:23 am:

i've never found a strain that didn't pin invitro when exposed to light from day 1.

By Brad (Raze) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 01:25 am:

So dont bother pinning invitro then?

By quote: (Quote) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 01:33 am:

we discused this once before with pf, and some others, and the general consensus was that you should give a fully colonized cake no more than 2 weeks to pin invitro, if it hasn't pinned by then, go ahead birth and case.
but if you expose them to light from the beginning, you will almost always have some pinning before then.
there are two good reasons to bother with waiting for invitro pinning.
1] the jar traps some co2, which is needed to help trigger pinning. often newbies who birth immediately find themselves waiting weeks before pins come, because they're fanning their tanks, which keeps co2 low, which slows pinning.
2] the jar traps moisture, keeping the cake hydrated while you wait. in a terrarium, the cakes will begin to dry, and if weeks go by, then the flush will be weak.

in your case, since you have pins on some of the same batch of jars, the others should not be far behind.

By Brad (Raze) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 02:14 am:

Ok, great. THANKS!

I can feel the excitement building inside me.... mwuahaha

By Maliki (Maliki) on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 07:16 pm:

I was wondering what my budy could do to force the cakes to pin there in 1/2 pint jars and he thinks Pf race . They have all been turned upside down caps LOSE almost off and under a 15 watt full spectrum vitta lite (florecent). Have been this way for a week and all have been 100% colonized for as long and a few others even longer. and the temp was droped from incubation 86 deg to fruiting 70 deg . Hes afraid to birth untill he sees pins , for fear of contamination.
Any sugestions PLEASE.........

By ggg (Ggg) on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 07:27 pm:

If they are 7 days past 100%
Birth em' - you should be fine


By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 11:42 pm:

should see pins anyday now,
i'd wait it out.

By Maliki (Maliki) on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 06:00 am:

cool beanz then we will see hopefuly. And he birthed one befor work today. Just to see if it made a diffrence.

By Maliki vision seaker (Maliki) on Monday, January 14, 2002 - 04:11 pm:

Still waiting

By quote: (Quote) on Monday, January 14, 2002 - 11:51 pm:

well, hell.
at this point, i'd say go ahead birth, dunk,
and put into terrarium.
they'll pin eventually.

By ion ewe (Ion) on Tuesday, January 15, 2002 - 05:49 am:

Might want to try a good shock. Keep them in jars in total darkness for a good 36-48 hours at colonizing temps (around 80), then suddenly birthe them into a cold place (70 deg. terrarium with some ice cubes melting in the perlite) bathed in bright light for a day. Bring humidity, light and temps to normal optimum and wait. They should start pinning as soon as the shock hits. Within half a day, I'd say.


By Maliki vision seaker (Maliki) on Tuesday, January 15, 2002 - 06:28 am:

Actualy to day before work i put everything back into incubation chamber. Figure 2 days then follow quote birth dunk case. I hope soon.

By robert j dobs (Discored) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 08:57 pm:

my cakes have started producing primordia however they dont all look typical. Not all of them have red heads, some just range in color from pale to light brown, and few have a bluish speck in them. is this normal or infection?

By quote: (Quote) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 09:12 pm:

that's fine, the color can vary from almost white to very dark brown.