Manure Water

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By jared (Jared112) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 09:59 pm:

I read in the PF Tek that you can use lake water or stream water when making the cakes. They said that it works a lot better. But, That would mean that the water is full of contams and when you steam the jars to get rid of all possible contams will that kill even the bacteria deep within the cake or should I play it safe and use distilled water? If anybody has tried this let me know if there is even a difference between natural water and distilled water.

By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 11:00 pm:

I would use Purified Water unless you Pressure Sterilize. Just trying to save heartache

As far as "natural" water being better than purified... Depends on the natural water, and there is no way to know without experimenting...

The safe bet, especially if you are steaming instead of pressure cooking... Use purified water.

By Lichen (Lichen) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 11:07 pm:

Actually I have almost consistently used the water from a very large goldfish tank located in my has dozens and dozens of goldfish in it, no aireator, no equipment like a normal fish tank, just the fish, snails, and the algea. The water is quite a deep emerald green.

I have always used this water, and I have also always used steam processing rather than pressure cooking. The water obviously has tons of fishpoop and etc etc in it, and I have no problem using it. The reason I use it is to give the jars that little extra bit of nutrients, and I always have excellent flushes. Right now I have a B+ cake that has three large and seven small shrooms on it, probably 80 grams or so wet.

By Lichen (Lichen) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 06:52 pm:

that's exactly what I'm using :0)
here's a pic of the green fish water from my goldfish friends...greenwater

By XUnkyHerbX (Notapplicable) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 12:08 am:

I attempted water from nature once.. Failed misserably in 36 straight jars. Live and learn :)

By Lichen (Lichen) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 12:33 am:

well, I can't speak to that, but for certain, after years of jars, I have to say my greenfishwater is a success every time...a proven ingredient.

By Funguy420 (Funguy420) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 12:41 am:

you could always just boil the water before you added it to the mix. that's what i did. i have only lost one to contams and i think that was from the needle not being sterilized right before i inocculated.

By An guy (Boomer) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 03:57 am:

I use creek water from the mountains so far.

I just steamed my jars and I have contams, but only in my ports- the other jars are fine, except two are stalled because of too much moisture....So I'm sure they'll get contaminated, but it's over two weeks, and they're clean along with the jar I did right, which is going well.

I used mountain creek since it hasn't had a chance to go through any fields yet or otherwise pick up any chemicals.

By jack cracker (Cptcracker) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 05:20 am:

I once experimented with river water, bottled spring water, and runoff water from a feed lot (brown, but filtered). The cakes were all pc'd and inoculated the same. As far as colonization and fruiting, there were no sigificant differences. I did not, however, record the potency or fruiting history of each cake. I was just happy to have results.

everything was pc'd, by the book. no significant loss due to contams. but i still stop by the feed lot every now and then and get a little "fortified" water...

By Nan (Nanook) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 05:44 am:

Lichen clearly states that his "manure water" is a proven ingredient in his substrate when steaming jars. He determined this by experiment.

Now if you are going to PC the Jars try manure water for an added boost.

Take about a quart of composted cow manure (bagged from the nursery or lawn & garden dept) and dump it into 1/2 gallon of clean water. Stir it up well and let it sit for awhile. Then when you are making up substrate give it another stir and pour off the liquid on top, leaving most of the sediment behind. You will need to add just a tad more liquid than normal because there will be some solid matter in suspension. Makes nice "high-test" jars, and is one of the best jar additives I have found.

High quality additives like Worm Castings can replace a tablespoon or two of PF substrate per jar. Adjust your moisture levels accordingly, make sure the jars are sterilized for 45 min under 15 PSI steam.

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 08:44 pm:

Shit tea is good... but I hear that straw water is bad, or at least concentrated straw water(water that was used to pasturize more than one batch) is....can't remember why though.

By Fishy1 (Fishy1) on Sunday, April 29, 2001 - 11:29 pm:

Has anyone tried adding a plant fertilizer like Pure Blend hydro-organic liquid to their water at any stage? This is a low NPK blend that works magic on buds. Just curious, with all of the talk about pond, river, mineral water.

By Quote (Quote) on Sunday, April 29, 2001 - 11:31 pm:

most report poor results with fertilizers of all sorts.

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By Drstrange (Drstrange) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 03:57 am:

Been seeing ref to using "composted manure" tea in making substrate to increase nutrient level. Does "composted" mean, in a pile with leaves and twigs and banana peals for several months like farm compost, or just any old sun dried cow pies from the field like they grow in the wild? Just want to be sure I don't burn the kids feeding them too harsh a piece of shit! Thank you!

By Nan (Nanook) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 05:54 am:

You can use any old grey bovine droppings (OGBD), compost, composted manure with or w/out sticks, twigs, leaves, rocks, sand, gravel.

You make a slurry with water. You let it settle, scoop off any floaters. Give it a gentle swirl to suspend only small particles, leave the rock and heavy crap on the bottom, and pour off enough liquid to wet your substrate down.

Do not use fresh manure. Worm Castings Work Great!

Worm Castings


Posted by: ShroomVator Nov 17 02, 11:47 AM GMT
Has anyone tried this? Using manure as substrate for jars with a vermiculite barrier - or manure and something else.... If not, maybe someone can try it in a journal. Maybe manure with whole grain brown rice, then case it?

With mushrooms, it seems like so much has already been done...but, maybe I just haven't gotten reading about this, yet.


Posted by: ImaCheezit Nov 17 02, 12:33 PM GMT
You could definately do this. You could also make some shit and straw cakes. It would be the same as a bulk sub. just in smaller amounts. If you want you could use some alfalfa in your jars to kick up the nutrients more. Just beware that alfalfa will contam a bit easier, even if it is fully colonized.

Posted by: DirtyWOP Nov 17 02, 01:05 PM GMT
Everytime I've tried to innoculate sterile dung in a jar, it hasen't worked.

I think sterilized dung that isn't allowed to breathe produces this gas that builds up in the jar. The dung will get slimy and when you open the jar it will pop, and smell HORRIBLE, like swamp gas......the spores never germinate......

try mixing it with verm and using polyfil or filter patches.

Posted by: Nanook Nov 17 02, 01:11 PM GMT
A good way I have found to incorporate manure into jars is to use dry crumbly manure as an additive with the grain.

Making up some jars this way right now in fact.

Posted by: ShroomVator Nov 17 02, 01:13 PM GMT
What kind of grain are you using, Nan?

Posted by: DirtyWOP Nov 17 02, 02:18 PM GMT
whatcha mean?
do you get your grain to the correct moisture and THEN add dry manure?

Posted by: Bob Roberts Nov 17 02, 04:18 PM GMT
I have used manure substrate in jars with incredible success in the past. Myco bags also work fantastically. I have posted this recipe numerous times at tFF and will do so again here. I recommend it to anyone who is trying Panaeolus for the first time or for people who are trying to step up to bulk and are having a hard time with substrate interface. The recipe is not for "raw" poop (use bags) but for store-bought manure (like from wally world or garden stores).

My friend and mentor BJ (from the shroomery of old) gave me this recipe and he did not claim originality. I really wish this emoticon would quit laughing at me. From the man's fingers a couple of years ago.

5 cups vermiculite
3 cups manure
10 tblspns BRF
1.5 - 1.75 cups water
(makes 10-12 half pints)

Fill your canning jars, sterilize, and innoculate via the PF tek method. Once your substrate is fully colonized, case with 50/50 and a little lime. Since the manure is already added to your substrate, their is no need to spawn with manure and risk contamination. Just place your cased substrate into your humidity chamber and watch them grow!

Anno demonstrated that there may be a possibility of growing Pans via cake method using this tek or one similar, though he was barely successful with only one or two coming off. The problem really lies in the nature of the wispy mycelium. Anyway, hope this helps.

Posted by: ShroomVator Nov 17 02, 04:42 PM GMT
Hey, awesome Bob, glad you're here to help. wink.gif

I'm gonna do 12 jars of this and 12 of whole brown rice tomorrow....should be interesting.


Posted by: Nanook Nov 17 02, 08:04 PM GMT
Vator -

I use whole grain cooked brown rice. I dump the cooked rice from the pressure cooker into a cooler and mix in either (pre-sterilized in the oven): crumbled manure, compost, or worm castings. Adjust moisture if necessary. The substrate rocks.

That's a good post up there from Bob Roberts too, thanks smile.gif wub.gif

Posted by: Munchin Nov 18 02, 02:10 PM GMT
Dou you get larger/more flushes, larger fruits as compared to the PF tek? Some pics would be awesome!

Posted by: Munchin Nov 20 02, 08:42 AM GMT

Posted by: NixxoN Nov 20 02, 09:07 AM GMT
Nan, what are your thoughts on pasturizing some extra dung right in water and then using the water to boil rye grain before sterilizing it? I've read about people doing the same thing with straw and it having high nutrient levels to increase colonization time, maby it would do the same?

Posted by: Nanook Nov 20 02, 07:05 PM GMT
Yes, cooking grain in manure water will work I am sure.

As for yields, yes I do think it helps. I have yet to do the necessary experiments to say for sure... But it does wink.gif


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