|By yagshroom (Yagshroom) on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 08:29 am:|
Just a quick question to all that are posting pics... why is everybody letting their mushrooms go past the young and potent stage and open up? All of the pics I have seen on here look impressive, but sure wouldn't be much for an experience.
|By Fanaticus (Fanaticus) on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 09:37 am:|
true. All the pics at the PF web site are that way too. They look so cool, but like you said, they really suck for tripping.
Remember that absolutely awesome one foot cube
cake of straw and with Crushed up PF cakes with the Hawaiian? It was from OLD timer, before MYCOTOPIA first went down.
They were unbelievable as well as other tray style Hawaiians.
But, they sure do suck as far as eating them and tripping. Very weak.
That is why all of these shrooms are really the same, because they are mostly good when they are primordia with the veil just broken or before.
|By XUnkyHerbX (Notapplicable) on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 09:43 am:|
I can vouch for that. I always assumed no one would want to see pre-pubecent shrooms, and the 'stately beauties' where the ones every showed off for a good reason. I've tried mature shrooms.. I popped 3 grams worth of pills and shut the lights out with some nice music on, and didn't feel a thing :o Pick them before the viel breaks! Also, the older shrooms have a foul flavor, I can eat fresh young ones and enjoy it. And to completely contradict what i've just said, I let my PF classics grow to maturity, and had one of the best trips i've ever had.. You sure your classics are cubbies? It was an awfully strong trip for such a little ammount.. they were fresh though, stuck in a blender with some grapes and made into the nastiest looking smoothie i've ever seen.. Maybe the grapes had something to do with it?
Oh and PF, have you ever cased your Mazatecs? I colonized 12 half-pints, made 6 into casings, and 6 fruited from cakes. The cakes did great, the casings never fruited :/ I even tried a 6 hours trip to the fridge.. eventually ended up taking the casing layer off and turned it into a flat cake that didn't produce much :o
|By Fanaticus (Fanaticus) on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 05:46 pm:|
The PF shroom race is a slow maturer. In other words, sporulation starts usually after the cap spreads all the way out. most of the other races start sporulation almots immediately when the veil breaks and the cap spreads out.
That is probably why you liked the PF shrooms, even when they appear "mature". They really aren't mature until the spores start dropping and that takes a couple of days after the veil breaks as opposed to sporulation occuring right after the veil breaks.
About the Mazatec failure with casing - That is interesting because my Mazatecs only work well with the verm casing. I can't explain that one.
|By XUnkyHerbX (Notapplicable) on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 06:05 pm:|
Ooo.. Make sence. So, PF classics give a much higher yield since you can pick them when they are as big as they will get.. now if only the damned things didn't abort so much Oh well, they were definetly worth it.. the hawaiians I grew/ate didn't seem to get me off at all, and i was eating big doses. I started to think i'd never trip on shrooms again.. I now see why. Thanks for the heads up PF.
|By yagshroom (Yagshroom) on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 07:16 pm:|
Thanks for the words of wizdom. A FOAF has been using your tek for a while now and I am very impressed with the hawaii's on cakes, but have yet to be anywhere near impressed with the PF's... they have never produced a large yield, and have always taken forever to make what they do produce. Any ideas?
|By quote: (Quote) on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 10:56 pm:|
pf's are a thirsty race, needing plenty of water available to fruit fully.
that's one reason so many have a high percentage of aborts.
and of course, everyone's experience varies as do the genetics involved.
but i've seen many 10 inch pf's, and heavy yields in roughly 30 days from start, so don't be too quick to count out the pf classic.
|By Hatcher (Hatcher) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 10:07 am:|
I started w/PFs, grew several B+'s, some Mazatecs, but Hawaiians and Equidors tend to be my faves. I watch my shrooms pretty close, and like to pick 'em veil breaking, but a few will always have planed, albiet recently, and I have very few complaints. (Don't eat them very often myself!...) A comment please fanaticus! Thanxs!
|By Timothy Leary (Timothyleary) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 02:52 pm:|
i favor hawaiians and equidorians as well, they grow so fast compared to all other strains i have tried (indian, mazatec, false mex, pf, and albino)
|By Nozza (Nozz) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 04:31 pm:|
I'm not convinced that the potency drops substantially after the veil breaks. Not so much that the increase in weight does't more than make up for it.
Is this theory actually fact as in someone has tested the chemical content? Any links?
I know it is recommended that certain species are picked at this stage to avoid problems with spores.
|By quote: (Quote) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 06:15 pm:|
it's not the overall amount of 'magic' that declines,
it's the concentration.
gram for gram by percentage
as opposed to total amount.
the increase in weight is mostly water and spores,
neither of which add to the potency.
in addition, the presence of spores renders the caps quite bitter.
these criteria presuppose than one is growing with quality paramount,
and quantity secondary.
|By Fanaticus (Fanaticus) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 08:20 am:|
I speak from experience on this issue of
young immature shrooms verses big mature ones.
Many years ago I used to supply magic cubies
to some friends. They were used to my shrooms
and knew what to expect. after just a short
time with growing and taking the shrooms,
I already had a
deep suspicion that older mature cubies were
not near as psychedelic as the young light
colored ones. I always took the young ones
after I had poor trips with mature shrooms.
So, I used my friends as test subjects without
them knowing. When my shrooms got to the harvest
stage (young, light colored, no sporulation, veil just
didn't pick them as usual, but left them for 24 hours.
They became spory and got the purplish streaks on the
caps and stuff. So I picked them and dried them
with desiccant. I gave them to the test subjects
without telling them they were mature.
A few weeks later, the dude I gave the shrooms to
complained to me that the shrooms I last gave him
were not as good as the shrooms he usually gets from
me. He was certain and had no doubts about what he
was saying. He didn't like the shrooms that were
mature. So to pay him back, I gave him a lot
of nice young shrooms for free and he was happy
with them again, as before.
And then to go on, I would always seperate the
shrooms into small, medium small, medium, medium
large and large. And I would package them that way,
one gram at a time.
Eventually, all of my "customers" always, but always,
requested the bags of small shrooms. they are cleary
the winners in potency. Gartz and Stamets agree with
this also. The only people that don't agree, are those
that are not experienced.
then to give more examples, when one reads Stamets
about gourmet shrooms, he always reports that the
young shrooms are more edible than the older ones.
This is especially true for the coprinus "shaggy mane".
When young, it is a choice edible, when mature it is
a nauseating glop of black deliquescence.
Another one is the burgundy stropharia (garden giant -
kits sold by fungi perfecti - Aarons bull shit
"psilocybe Weilii"). That one too is edible
and choice when young, but when large and mature, it
Shitake is like that also. Plus, those button shrooms
you buy at the grocery store are definitely young.
When old, they loose there delicious delectability.
So I hate to say it, but that awesome mind blowing
pic from OLD TIMER with the one foot cube straw block
inoculated with Hawaiian PF cakes was indeed impressive,
but I wouldn't eat any of those well matured
and darkened up shrooms. The same goes
for the excellent fruitings with the trayed out pf cakes
of Hawaiian. fabulous growing, but shitty shrooms for
tripping when they are grown like that. So when
you harvest for quality, the yield is about half of what
it would be if you let them go on to full size maturity.
here is the cubie from the German report
(www.nansnook.com/archives/tek/forensic.htm) - the
lib caps, pan cyans and tamps didn't fare
psilocybin (%) psilocin (%)
notice the lousy alkaloid content of most of those
specimens! I am sure this is because the shrooms
were mature. when people grow shrooms to sell (as
in Holland), they grow for yield (money) and not quality (class).
do it yourselfers are not subject to this lame ass
money grubbing shit. when you grow your own, you can
dispell with the yield bull shit and go for quality.
|By yagshroom (Yagshroom) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 09:00 am:|
Very well written PF... thank you very much for the time to write it, and thanks for the spores. I have to say you are an absolute pleasure to do business with, and all my business will most certainly be going to you.
|By XUnkyHerbX (Notapplicable) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 09:07 am:|
PF - 2
Mature Shrooms - 0
TKO.. 3rd post :o
|By relic (Relic) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 09:13 am:|
hard to argue with that. i agree, while i've had a couple good trips on big ones, by and large they have sucked, imo. i grew all those b strain mushrooms out in the tub to get some cool pics and most of them were weak. it took 4-6 grams to really take off. although one of the doses we got off like mad. they sucked on 3 grams. for me, if i can't get there on 3-3.5 grams, they suck. which is ok, if you know ahead of time, i guess. you can up the dose.
|By Fanaticus (Fanaticus) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 02:22 pm:|
There was a recent post from someone complaining about some treasure coast shrooms he grew. He and a friend ate a bunch and they felt nothing. There were no follows to the post, so it went off line. I searched for it but I think it is gone.
The cubies have to be harvested before they mature, and that cuts back on the yield and size significantly. But after all, when one grows a weed plant, only the flowers are good, and the yellow dusty stuff that comes off of them is the greatest. So one has to be choosey with these shrooms for the best ones.
|By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 03:34 pm:|
That guy is talking out of his ass, i rember first time i ate tc's i had a little handfull all the viels were broken and all they were real small because i didnt dbl end tek (which was dumb not to because i heard they love dbl end tek) and you know what man it was one of my best/fav trips! I would love to see Tresure Cost back on your list fanaticus so would everyone and EQ's.Never got around to get your Eq's because they were out of order and then next time i was getting spores from you you sold out of alot of things.
Fanaticus would you want to put thoes classic strains back on the list around Xmas. Think everyone wants some in there stockings.
Tresure Coasts (big fan).
|By Timothy Leary (Timothyleary) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 04:46 pm:|
I never had the priveldge of having your TC strain,
i would also like to see them back on the list some time,
even if only for a limited time.
|By plinkerdink420 (Plinkerdink420) on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 11:06 pm:|
Holy shiat! I love the TC's... best trip i ever had.... please bring 'em back PF!
|By yagshroom (Yagshroom) on Sunday, November 11, 2001 - 08:02 pm:|
I agree... I would like to see several strains come back. Any chance that the product line might be expanded again?
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Sunday, November 11, 2001 - 08:31 pm:|
I also would like to be able to get TC, Eq and especially B+ from PF. I am reluctant to do buisness with any other dealer so I guess I will just have to wait and hope they come back.
|By Masta Blasta (Mastablasta) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 04:31 am:|
Consider the following fact:
1. A lb of kb can cost about $5k.
2. A lb of boomers typically goes for $850.
If people buying in bulk actually cared enough to pay for quality instead of quantity, they'd pay a more realistic price for the boomers. I think the middle-man is just as much to blame for the mature mushrooms as the grower.
That's my thoughts.
|By Dr. Cubesis III (Newbieshroomer) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 11:10 pm:|
One last question for the day, I hope! * gulp! *
They say that you should pick your shrooms before the veil breaks? Or rather after the veil has broken ... But I have been noticing when I harvest that the damn things grow so quick, that when I leave for work they are closed, but when I get home they are already dropping spores.
My questions I think would be:
How much psilocybin is lost/weakened when the mushroom is left to grow to full maturity?
Does letting a mushroom grow as big as it can grow signifigantly deplete the water/nutrients in the cake?
|By Marx2k (Marx2k) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 11:27 pm:|
no pssilo is lost.. just no more produces after veil is broken. Adn no, letting them grow to full maturity does not noticeably deplete the water/nutrients since after the veil breaks, the growth isnt substantial
|By Kaijan (Kaijan) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 11:28 pm:|
What happens is the mushroom produces spores and gains weight to it... the added weight/material obviously makes the mushroom larger, but it will only have the psilo content of before the veil tore away (when it was smaller).
So you see the psilo content doesnt really decrease, its just the amount of other matter that increases.
Letting the mushroom grow to full maturity will of course use nutrients and water, but you can always replenish the water by dunking. As for the nutrients, a BRF cake has more then an ample amount. The cake will weaken/grow mold before all the nutrients are used.
|By Dr. Cubesis III (Newbieshroomer) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 12:30 am:|
Ahhhh so if you pick them BEFORE the veil breaks,
they are as potent as a LARGER mushroom.
So, I know that most of the people here are growing crops for only themselves....
If you are growing for others as well, does it make sense to let the mushroom hit full maturity
before it is picked? Therefore increasing the wieght of the shroom to the max?
What I mean is, what are the drawbacks to letting them grow to full maturity, besides the fact they will make a mess dropping spores?
And will spores have any effect with sterility concerns??
Hey, thanks guys, I'm thinking my previous knowledge of this was incorrect, as you two came back to me with virtually the same thing...
|By Kaijan (Kaijan) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 01:16 am:|
well.. you'll have to eat more matieral to get the same effect.. thats the only draw back.
Many dealers purposely let them mature so they can get the extra weight in.
spores wont effect sterility becase they are brought up in a sterile environment... unless your constantly touching them or sneezing on them, they will be no less sterile then your mushroom cap.