|Mycelium slowing down?||11||01/27 09:50pm||jared|
|Jar flipping drawbacks||17||12/02 06:23pm||Mr. Tambourine Man|
|Salvage operation: crumble stalled cakes into beds?||22||12/13 02:47am||Martaxus|
|Colonization Time and Temperature Question||8||02/08 07:37am||QuiDDity|
|By Hudsonismss (Hudsonismss) on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 10:12 am:|
what is the best way to increase the rate of colinization? does having the substrate too moist inhibit colinization? do external conditions realy matter (disregarding extreme temps..)?
i have 6 jars going, and only two have had any major mycilia growth after over 2 weeks, anothers lost to contam....
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 11:00 am:|
You get what you get and you can't do anything about jars that are already innoculated and colonizing.
However, if you put a thin layer of dry verm in the bottom of your jars before loading them with substrate, they will colonize much, much faster. I have cakes fully colonized in 10 days and pins at 14 days...I'll harvest my first PFAlbino shrooms @ 22 days.
It seems to speed things up a bit.
|By Kaijan (Kaijan) on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 02:46 pm:|
you'll want the temp around 85* -- they colonize nicely at that temp
|By Nanook of the North (Nanook) on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 04:22 pm:|
Substrate that is mixed too wet will be a problem too, especially if you Inoculate them too heavy.
If you open the jar it is doomed to failure. Do not open slow or stalled jars until you are ready to pitch it.
|By Hudsonismss (Hudsonismss) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 04:07 am:|
i think my substrates are a bit too wet, i'll take care to make sure they're just moist enough to hold the BRF. and i'll try putting a layer of verm down on the bottom...thanks guys
|By Bobby (Bobby) on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 04:03 pm:|
I believe my jars have stalled in incubation. The mycelium is around 95 percent. Any sugestions on how to fix my problem?
|By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 04:36 pm:|
Try flipping the jars upside down.
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 06:14 pm:|
Bobby, do you have the temperature regulated? If there's too much up and down variance, they can stall; also if they're cold they will stall. I have a few jars that are more than 7 weeks, and still trying...I found out they were stalled because they were too cold. As soon as I put them in a controlled environment, they started going again.
|By Bobby (Bobby) on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 06:38 pm:|
It is pretty cool in my apartment because we had a cold front come through. I'm going to put them over a stove and see what happens its a few degrees warmer.
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 01:12 am:|
get a thermometer and make sure it's at least 80F. Not higher than 86F, though. That's a nice comfortable range for pfjars
|By XUnkyHerbX (Notapplicable) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 05:39 am:|
My jars started to colonize very quickly, then all the sudden almost stopped. There is only a small area of 3 of 5 cakes that isn't colonizing.
You know how the germination starting areas grow out as a circle, then overlap with each other? Well it's like the circle only partially overlapped.. Shaped like this
. = Mycellium
|.... | |.....|
Later when they overlap...
|.....\/<--|---Area that won't colonize.
Any ideas why? Could a contaminate survive being that small and the mycellium so dominating?
|By Mrt (Mrt) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 06:11 am:|
Take the tape off the holes on your lids (if you haven't already done so). I do this when my jars are about 50% colonized. This allows the mycelium to breath and speeds up growth.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 06:13 am:|
Do what Mrt said, and also flip the jar upside down.
|By Martaxus (Martaxus) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 06:29 am:|
As a guideline Nanook, would you say jar flipping is adviseable at 50% colonization?
|By Nan (Nanook) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 06:44 am:|
You know, I never need to flip. Don't ask why, but my jars never seem to stall up. But when jars slow up and stop, pull the tape off and flip em right away... The reports that come in state it gets em moving again... And it worked when I happened by a growing friend who had an entire case of stalled jars... I peeled the tape off and flipped them and he called three days later and thanked me saying they were moving again. It works.
No need to flip if you are not stalling up (I never need to flip) but if you hit a problem it's the first thing you should do.
|By XUnkyHerbX (Notapplicable) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 06:54 am:|
My jars have been flipped actually.. I flip them once the mycellium start to touch each other. Maybe I did it too soon? Oof that would suck. I set them right side up again earlier today, but have now flipped them back upside down.
Some specifics I forgot to mention -
My jars are only covered in tinfoil, no tape was ever used.
The strain is panamanian.
I used the 'Invitro double-ended case casing tek'.
Think thats all, quick responces
|By Nan (Nanook) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 07:07 am:|
Leave em be for 3 days. If you do not see any improvement, sanitize the cover of a phone book with some Lysol. Rap the jar lids on the phone book sharply and break the cake free from the bottom and return the jars to the incubator.
The most common reasons jars stall: incubation temps rising and falling (they need to be stable in the mid-80's and that is a problem this time of year); lack of moisture; yeast contam which is not visible to the eye.
Best O'luck to you.
|By Martaxus (Martaxus) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 07:41 pm:|
With the incubation temps, is it harmful to have them around 80-85F in the day, then 70F at night?
|By Nan (Nanook) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 09:45 pm:|
Yes, when the temps rise and fall during incubation it can cause the jars to stall. Best to incubate at a set temp, even if it is lower than optimum.
|By XUnkyHerbX (Notapplicable) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 11:58 pm:|
So what do you suggest I do to keep them at a constant temp? It's fairly warm here during the day, but then gets bitter cold at night. I have them in the warmest room in the house, but the temp easily drops 15 degrees at night. Blah, they were so close! I have been waiting for atleast 3 days for those last areas, closer to a week actually Nan. Should I do that stuff on a phonebook now?
My basement is constantly cold.. probrablly 60 or so degrees, maybe a little higher. Should I put them down there even though its SO cold?
|By XUnkyHerbX (Notapplicable) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:00 am:|
Hmm.. Reading more suggests people have an "Incubator".. Don't have much money, what would be the easiest way to contruct an incubator? My drawer is my incubator :/
|By Nan (Nanook) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:37 am:|
You can put something together on the cheap. For about $3.00 you can pop your jars into a styrofoam cooler in your warm room, that alone would go far towards stablizing the temperature swings. For a few bucks more you can add a fish tank heater in a pickle jar (which provides heat _and_ humidity keeping the jars from drying out).
Look at Marx2k's Pickle Jar Heater, when used in a Jar Incubator you do not need the bubbler.
I would think the $3.00 styro cooler would be a good start all by itself. It's clean, draft free, and stablizes temps.
|By Kevin Smith (Canshroom) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 06:56 am:|
I think my jars might be stalled, so I'm going to remove the tape. What's the thought process with taking it off, anyway? Isn't there a contam concern? Or is the rationale of doing it that the jars are stalled anyway, so it's worth the risks of getting contams to get them started again?
|By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:13 am:|
take the tape off that's probley why thier stalled they cant breath.
yes it may up the risk of contam a bit but not enough to really worry about. take the tape off a hole or 2 if your worried about contams
|By Kevin Smith (Canshroom) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:16 am:|
Thanks Liberty. I've taken the tape off all the jars to see if that stimulates more growth. My temp is low & I'm fixing that. Initially, the growth was good, but in the last week, there hasn't been much at all. Is there a danger of the moisture being lost with the tape off?
|By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:32 am:|
just take your jars and flip them so thier siting on thier lids to help c02 excape..
about moisture loss, if your hole's aren't that big you will be fine.
if they get to dry dunk them at birth.
well good luck
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:44 am:|
Kevin, what kind of tape are you using? I use first aid/sports tape. It allows the mycellium to breath well until total colonization. Liberty is correct, though, if they have stalled removing tape and flipping is your best bet.
|By Kevin Smith (Canshroom) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:51 am:|
Forgot to flip them...I'll do that now. I'll have to check out that tape, jim. Thanks for the advice.
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 08:01 am:|
What kind off tape were you using?
|By greenthumb (Greenthumb) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 01:26 pm:|
more tape talk
even more tape talk
|By Kevin Smith (Canshroom) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 07:25 pm:|
Jim- I was using masking tape like the PF tek says. I've read about micropore tape, but I don't know what it is or where to get it. Is someone could shed some light on why it's better, please let me know. (or any other kind of tape for that matter)
|By Great Expectations (Shade) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 07:55 pm:|
You can get micropore tape at this address for pretty cheap: http://www.mypharmacy.com.sg/dept.asp?dept_id=128
However, it's not really necessary, but if you want to be extra cautious...
|By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 05:20 pm:|
Should jars that were flipped to prevent stalling during incubation, be flipped back over to right-side-up for fruiting invitro?
|By quote: (Quote) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 05:22 pm:|
not really, it's better to leave them flipped.
that way, excess water and co2 drain down into the vermiculite and out the lid's holes.
|By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 05:28 pm:|
Even though the vermiculite won't be in contact with the cake for fruiting?
|By quote: (Quote) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 05:31 pm:|
the cake should slide down onto the verm.
tap it a few times to slide it if needed.
|By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 05:52 pm:|
Oh OK... must be a tapered jar thing.
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 06:02 pm:|
It shouldn't really matter if the cake is touching the Verm invitro because that verm should be dry, unless you have replaced with wet verm since total colonization.
|By Dreamer (Dreamer) on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 03:34 pm:|
I don't know how big the following may be a problem!!!
this is the second batch I've grown from my first spore print and the same thing is happenning...
the mycelium has started growing and in some of the jars around the border of the growth there's a dark beige color...this never happened with the spores I ordered but since it's the first time I did a spore print I probably did mistakes!!!
with the first batch the same thing happened with some of the jars...they continued growing to 100 % white colonisation and there was no foul odor when I birthed them...
this beige color worries me...is it water contamination?? did I use too much water in my cakes?? has anyone seen such a color??
I did sterilise the jars for an hour...I'm really tempted to throw the shrooms from my first batch as well as these cakes and re-order spores!!! as well as be extra careful with the next print I do
your advice is appreciated!!!
|By quote: (Quote) on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 03:45 pm:|
kinda hard to guess without pictures.
you possibly have a mild bacterial infection carried on your print/spores.
if the beige doesn't spred much beyond the border of the mycellia, and colonization finishes on time, then i'd still keep the cakes and fruit them. the mycellia can fend off minor infections and go on to fruit ok.
but if colonization is delayed, i'd pitch them.
|By nuecrew (Nue) on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 06:22 pm:|
I've had that look on my patches of growth. To me it looks like the color of the rice underneath coming through the new mycelia. After it grows out the white dominates. Have you checked the Archives? There really is a wealth of info in there and sometimes it's faster than waiting for a response from a post.
|By Ron (Clubbenguy) on Monday, January 07, 2002 - 08:37 am:|
If its like a yellowy-beige color it may just be water droplets that have come directly in contact with the mycellium. Just my two cents....its happened to me before.
|By Dr. Cubesis III (Newbieshroomer) on Monday, January 07, 2002 - 05:57 pm:|
Could be improperly mixed brf, if you have deposits of it, and it gets wet, ( or to dry ) it looks suspicious...
|By Swilly (Swilly) on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 04:35 pm:|
I get this same thing from time to time and here is what i have come up with and it makes good sense! When you are sterilizing your sub in the p.c. and sometimes it may get to hot or you may pull the pressure release valve off to soon it knda burns the verm. a little bit causeing it to discolor to a tahnish yellow or brown. I'm guessing it dyes the water inside this same color, so when your myc. starts to grow it soaks up the discolored water (tahn) and as it grows outwards as it does it pushes this color out towards it's edges !! This is what i have come up with and i really wouldn't fret about it it's happend to me numerous times and my cakes come out beautiful in the end and still produce the same amount of fruit. This can also happen from your that's if you are useing honey in your sub mixtures when it gets to hot and carmalizes causeing this same effect and discolorisation. So from my experience Dr. cubesis i'd say your fine but try to watch what i have mentioned about the over heating and or release of your pressure valve to soon!!
|By Dr. Cubesis III (Newbieshroomer) on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 06:12 pm:|
To cool Swilly, this has happened to my friend a few times to, though he only uses karo teks these days Never release the pressure valve to soon either It's usually 20 hours gone by by the time I get back to open the cooker...
Will keep your hard learned lessons in mind tho swilly Never thought that I might have " burned " the verm!