|By Bobby (Bobby) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 12:27 am:
I cased three cakes with Eat u's Tek, The mycelium is begining to break through the surface. Some of the growth is fuzzy like cotton. I thought it just might be mycelium at young age but I want to be safe. Are there any good pics of cob web fungus that you guys know about. Also I have one cake in the terranium. I birthed it before any pins started(Impatient) how long untill I should see results? (new and impatient bare with me)
|By Nan (Nanook) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 02:35 am:
It's White Fuzz Bobby! Don't Worry. Be Happy
Give the cakes 5-7 days to Pin up, a couple of weeks to fruit, minimum, at 75*F with the proper Humidity.
You're doing fine.
|By relic (Relic) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 11:32 pm:
i think 90% of the cobweb mold suspicions people report are incorrect. cobweb mold is very distinctive and fast growing, it doesn't grow invitro, and it grows up and up way off the substrate.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 11:48 pm:
I think the percentage is even higher than that...
And this is interesting. I stole this photo from the Shroomery archive for the purpose of this discussion...
Now the shroomery states this is cobweb mold growing in the Verm barrier of a PF type jar. Just one problem... Most of my jars look exactly like this when I birth them... And what I have is not cobweb, it's thin fuzzy mycelia running the verm barrier like a casing. When scraping the verm layer down prior to knocking the cake free, the thin fuzzy mycelia gets thicker and more ropy until you scrape the verm right down to the top of the cake. Tain't cobweb. Straw Beds Spawned with these cakes show no evidence of cobweb infection, and if cobweb was in there it would leap across a straw bed lickity split.
My take, this is not a photo of cobweb... This is White Fuzz
But Shroomery uses this photo for their identification of cobweb.
Anybody else have a take on this?
|By relic (Relic) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:52 am:
i've seen that pic too and concur. that is not cobweb mold, all of my pf jars looked like that when birthed. that is a poor pic for cobweb i.d.
here are some good examples of cobweb mold that someone just posted on adm.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:08 am:
Yeah that's cobweb. Nice crop of it too! Too bad the Photos are blurry, but even with those pics you can get an idea of the lack of structure that cobweb has. And cobweb is never the clean, bright, white that even thin fuzzy mycelia has (as in the pic I posted above, it's brilliant white).
|By Bobby (Bobby) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:09 am:
Thanks that is what mine look like, You guys are awesome!
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:18 am:
Nan, that's a normal pfjar in that pic. I'd say that someone over there is confused, because I have never seen cobweb grow in a jar at all...and all my jars look like that on top too.
Cobweb mold grows on casings. It grows mighty fast, much much faster than cubensis mycelium. Suffice it to say that if you have never seen cobweb mold, you'll know it when you do--it's unmistakeable. Right now, in fact, I have it all over one of my strawbeds :0(
|By Nan (Nanook) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:32 am:
Ok I perused the link Relic left for us and pulled two photos I will eventually move to the Archive to help out with the visual ID of cobweb
Photo #1 is a pretty up close of cobweb just getting started on a cased bed of something. Look how it puffs up off the bed, color is slightly gray, the fibers show a complete lack of structure (ummm like a cobweb?)
Now the next photo shows how cobweb leaps and climbs. This bed did not take but a few days to degrade to this degree I am sure. I repeat over and over cobweb grows like fire out of control, it will more than double in size in 24 hours... It runs across cased beds like fire races through a lumberyard on a windy day. It leaps, it climbs, it does not stay in close contact to the bed.
Now compare the color, the structure, and the growth pattern of these photos to the pictures in this Bulk Tek with Coir Casing third photo down.
|By SYDYSTYK (Addict) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:19 am:
i have had cob web in a jar but it was caused by a contamed syringe, lost over 60 jars to it, at first i thought it was mycelia, i thought i was colonizing at record speed, about a week into it the colors came(very dark then turning to black), i knew it was cobweb after trying the syringe in honey tek, it grew about an inch above the surface of honey solution,using honey tek before hand wouldve saved me a lot
|By relic (Relic) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 05:21 am:
that second pic is like WOW!
"well i wanted to make sure it wasn't just really fuzzy mycellia"
definately not a case of cobweb paranoia
|By relic (Relic) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 09:48 am:
i haven't seen cobweb mold since i figured out that casings need to ventilate
|By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 06:28 am:
Yep yep yep... They need to breath far more than cakes. Lots of air = no cobweb.
Lots of lime = No trich
|By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 06:39 am:
It's good to have some pictures of it for people to see.
Maybee we can avoid the next... Cobweb Hysteria
I swear... everytime someone brings up cobweb mold, every new person who has never seen it before starts thinking they have it growing in all their stuff.
Lol.... seen it happen on this board a bunch of times.
|By relic (Relic) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 09:45 am:
that's soo true, and then they all get someone telling them to spray h2o2(just to be safe), which retards the growth and fruiting. i never use h2o2 and rarely have any problems. when i do it's post 2nd flush casings that get that damned trich.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 12:56 pm:
You and I both... Here is what I have found (and you can track this with a cheap aquarium pH test kit)... As the casing grows old it begins to "sour" or acidify.
As the pH in the casing drops, Trich takes hold.
There are two remedies: scrape off and replace the casing; or include lots of buffer when you mix the casing up.
The first point is obvious. The longer term buffer is harder to understand... But I did a breakdown pH analysis of the 50/50 casing over time. pH drop is the cause of Trich. The addition of ground oyster shell acts as a long term pH buffer, it keeps the pH high enough into the second flush that Trich is retarded. Add more oyster shell, or replace the casing, you go to 3rd and 4th flushes without contam.
Lichen I hope you are reading this because this is one of the keys to your straw tek problems... You have to add lots of lime to the casing.
Fan plenty... Keeps the cobweb at bay... Clean "sweet" beds... Pretty soon you get serious massive flushes. No shit in this Tek.
|By quote: (Quote) on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 06:31 pm:
cobweb loves stagnant, moist air.
it's very fast, it will overun your entire casing in a day or 2.
it's very fluffy, more grey than white, and grows up into the air above the casing.
here's a pic...
|By Nan (Nanook) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:09 am:
A small patch of COBWEB just getting started on some compost. To treat this you would remove the clump where the Cobweb germinated, and mist the spot with pure 3% H2O2 in a spray bottle. Increase your fanning. You can keep the stuff at bay.
Uggghh Cobweb Contaminated 2nd Strawbed !
|Posted by: OZZ Nov 28 02, 08:47 PM GMT
| Man this is starting to get irratating .... I have been working on getting straw down, I have been getting through the spawn run no problem, been casing it and the casing layer is colonizing no problem. Then just a few days before I expect pins POW .... cobweb mold ... again ! WTF ?? I thought once everything colonized mycelium and casings in general are resitant to contams ? Also I sterilized the casing layer for 1 hour at 350 deg. before I wetted it down and cased the bed.
I wonder if Im keeping it to wet ?? Maybe its because Im making the bed directly in the rubbermaid with no tray and condensation is running down the sides of the container back into the bed keeping it to wet and inviting contams ?? ANY help would be greatly appreciated ... I thought I had it for sure this time !!
Actually, after checking my records, it seemed like it was taking a long time to develop pins, but really I had just cased the bed on the 23rd (I thought it was longer) so I was probably just a few days out from pins. This is how the bed looked on the 25th.
|Posted by: OZZ Nov 28 02, 08:49 PM GMT
|Cant get that one to work, anyway, here are pics of the contams
|Posted by: OZZ Nov 28 02, 08:50 PM GMT
|Posted by: Mycota Nov 28 02, 10:27 PM GMT
| Sounds like the cob web (tric) is getting in -- after you case. If it is in a tight container? Lots of opening & eyeballing the content, is how molds get in.
Any time you open it, it may be wise to light mist with a 3% hydrogen peroxide solution, before you close it up. That might help, kill of anything getting in -- on top your casing layer.
Best bet, is to cut about a one inch hole on both sides of the container (one high / one low) & cover both with some filter disk material, to allow some natural gas exchange.
Also, rig a hole in the lid & cover with clear plastic (so you can eyeball without opening the container. This will also allow in light, at the fruiting stage.
But, IMHO........ straw alone is a contam prone, flash in the pan, one decent flush substrate.
Dung is better & far more comtam resistant. I have had six (6) flushes, off dung substrates.
|Posted by: Chronic007 Nov 29 02, 12:35 AM GMT
| Hhhhmmmmm, now I really don't want to come across as disrespectful but often disagreement leads to conversation that leads to better evaluation and hence better information.
First off, if I'm not mistaken TRICH is green mold not cobweb.
Secondly I would agree that if noticed soon enough, a misting with the hydrogen peroxide solution would beat the cobweb back some although it is a very fast growing mold.
Thirdly, I'm under the impression that straw is actually very contam resistant if treated properly before use.
I would like to hear more from some of the Pro's regarding these questions.
Hey OZZ do some reading on this link on how to beat cobweb mold. As for preventing it....this becomes alot more complicated...your environment has much to do with your results.....had a buddy that couldn't get a single cake to colonize ever because mold and bacteria had taken over the infastructure of his house and would attack anything it could grow on. Soon as he moved bingo!!!! Obviously this isn't your case as you get pretty far along in the process before the attack. Lets see who else answers your question and we'll get to the bottom of this.
Oh almost forgot, here's the link.
Cobweb Mold: Fight Back!!!
|Posted by: Mycota Nov 29 02, 01:08 AM GMT
| Yo Cronic,
I'm a little "lit", the holiday & all. You are right about tric -- being the green/blue meany. Me bad. Wquo me, beat me.......LOL. Hey, I agree with you. Under certain conditions "straw" is contam resistant. My experiance is, dung is much more contam resistant, under almost all comparable conditions. I'm just not a fan of a straight straw substrate. But, whatever works, for whoever.... is what they should use.
If "straw" by itself was the best substrate. That, is what commercial cultivators would use. They don't. That tells me something. But, straw might be available to some, where dung is not. So, ya go with what ya got. Mycota.
|Posted by: OZZ Nov 29 02, 10:36 AM GMT
| Thanks guys !! Well we can just forget about dung .... its not going to happen, not when there is something such as straw around that I can use as a bulk substrate and not have to "play with shit " ... LOL
Anyway it is most definately getting in after I case because the straw is colonizing completely and the casing layer, once applied, is colonizing completely, really sucks to cuz I bet I was about three days out from pins. But I was fanning a ton to promote pins, as I have read you are supposed to do, and have always donte with my PF style casings with no probs ever. How can you lower CO2 levels enough to trigger the mycelium to fruit, with a airtight container and only a few holes to allow for gas exchange ?? Dont you NEED to fan ??? Also, Im not in the position to rig up anything automated so misters and the like are out of the question.
Thanks a ton !!
|Posted by: Chronic007 Dec 01 02, 07:20 AM GMT
| Here is some commercial straw use.
|Posted by: DirtyWOP Dec 01 02, 08:25 AM GMT
| I agree with the idea that straw contams more easily than dung...
Maybe I don't chop mine enuf, but it doesn't seem to colonize as evenly
I have more than once found trich hidden growing under the surface of colonized straw......that is very bad IMO
But straw is good stuff
cheap 'n' easy
|Posted by: wildflowergirl Nov 29 02, 11:02 AM GMT
| What up Cats?
I have a quick question. I have these cakes that have flushed out 3 times. I scraped, dunked, then gave em a bleach dunk. 2-3 days later, and 1 cake had trich that looked like death himself. 4 other cakes look exceptionally weird. They are growing white fuzz in these little tufts. The fuzz is longer than I remember ever looking normal. The fuzz also kinda has a snowflake appearence. Could this be cobweb, or just my cakes fuzzing up again to give me nice fruits? I would post pics, but do not know how. I have a digi cannon s30, if anyone knows how to compress those files to a size that the forum will except. thanks in advance.
|Posted by: scotsman Nov 30 02, 01:30 AM GMT
| sounds to me like the normal cycle
every cake takes on a different appearance but if they have had 3 flushes there old and more likely to suffer contam
|Posted by: Toad Nov 30 02, 01:44 PM GMT
| Cobweb has a silvery grey appearance.
If it's white you should be OK.
If in doubt quaranteen the suspect cakes.
Also if it's cobweb it will engulf your cake in a day or so, pretty obvious at that point.
|Posted by: wildflowergirl Nov 30 02, 06:45 PM GMT
|Thanks guys, I think I'm in the saftey zone. I'm just paranoid, cuz I'm over loading my chambers, and an out break may nearly ruin me! I just need to get a reptile undertank heating pad, then I can move some to my newest chamber without worries. Why are they so damn expensive? They are $50 bucks by me.
|Posted by: Fungusmaximus Dec 02 02, 05:29 AM GMT
|Here is cobweb, I grew it myself
|Posted by: Fungusmaximus Dec 02 02, 05:31 AM GMT
|A peroxide spraying will tell ya if ya got cobweb, just spray and see if the fuzz melts, if it does then its most likely cobweb.
|Posted by: T Razza Dec 02 02, 04:11 PM GMT
| Does anyone know if cobweb sporulates? Does it form tiny black dots, or does it just remain filamentous with invisible spore heads?
I have a pan casing that is slow to grow through. I can see some mycelium but it could be cobweb. The entire thing is sealed with Saran Wrap, and where the moisture has condensed on the saran wrap, their are little "snowflakes" of some kind of mycelium growing right on the saran wrap. There's no way it could be pan mycelium, could it?
Everything smells earthy. Does cobweb smell bad?
|Posted by: Nanook Dec 02 02, 04:48 PM GMT
| It sporulates, and the spore bodies are tiny black dots,
near microscopic, tinting the cobweb darker and darker gray as the spore
|Posted by: T Razza Dec 02 02, 08:13 PM GMT
|Posted by: Nanook Dec 04 02, 01:36 AM GMT
| Now pan mycelia is different than cubies. Pan mycelia does smell earthy and looks
cobwebby, and it goes shades of gray.
Watch how fast it grows
|Posted by: Mar Lamia Dec 26 02, 07:43 PM GMT
| The link is great and there's a lot of info on cobwebs. The problem for me is, and I read all that stuff a few months ago, is that I didn't find any pics of cobweb growing in a jar, shot from the side, in the beginning stages of growth. This is what threw me the 1st time around. The sides and bottom looked normal but there were 'puffs' on top of the verm. Sprayed 'em anyway for the cobweb, dunked for the trich and they came out fine.
Exactly what's happening now. Can't tell without opening the jar and they aren't quite ready yet. I never had it as badly as the photo's of cakes in trays. I know I'll end up birthing then spraying with peroxide just because I'm not 100% sure. Not bad idea, but catching it in the initial stage really takes an experienced eye. Of course, a digital camera would provide all the proof the pro's need to help me identify. But that wasn't on the list for the PF Tek!!! I've decided that if in doubt, spray. If I want to be sure, send in pics.
|Posted by: Mar Lamia Dec 26 02, 07:50 PM GMT
| The other sign that it (the jar in question) may be ok is that the growth is white, not silvery grey. Also, the growth is 'normal', there is no growth spurt as cobweb is described to produce. Top of the cake looks more like a puffy cloud than the thin transparent cobweb. I may have just solved my dilema. If it grows really fast it should have taken up the space between the verm & top of the jar by now. BTW they're Cams & PR's. In my haste to get the jars started I don't know which is which.
Named one pair Juan & the other, Amal.
|Posted by: Bob Roberts Dec 26 02, 10:38 PM GMT