|By Timothy Leary (Timothyleary) on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:30 pm:|
this is from a video series i have, any thoughts anyone???
"Amanita muscaria, long associated with the "Flesh of the God" in religious sacraments, was and is the true Holy Grail. The Grail cup, holding the blood of the god, is an obvious analogy for the shape of the fully-grown specimen and its juices. Note the look of the fully grown specimen. The imagery of a cup or fountain are two of the more pronounced symbols used to keep the understanding of the true nature of the sacrament a secret from everyone but the "Elite". In its infant (button) state, the muscaria resembles a small white stone. The pulling of the sword from the stone (a symbol of wielding the power), is another Arthurian legend connecting the mushroom to the myth. The quest for the Grail itself is the quest for the knowledge of the mushroom. The Parcival myth depicts paths (traditions), which are to be explored (but not adhered to), in order to complete the quest. This quest is described in the myths as a journey into the forest (the world) and finding paths (systems) which one may follow, for a time, but ultimately one must blaze his/her own trail in order to truly reach the final goal, the Holy Grail (the discovery and usage of the mushroom).
The search for the Holy Grail is a mythology that has become, through adaptation, a part of the story of the Crucifixion. Some of the stories incorporate a cup which was used to catch some of the flowing blood of Jesus as he died on the cross. This cup, like many other relics, was thereby thought to possess magical powers. Historically, the mushroom has been the container for the juice of the "elixir of immortality", or the "blood of God", in many myths. The final shape of the muscaria, with its inverted cap, is the reason that the cup/fountain/grail symbology is used in the stories. King Arthur, as a child, gained his rightful place as King by pulling the sword from the stone. This is symbolic for wielding the power of the mushroom. The stone is a metaphor for the mushroom, and pulling the sword from it is symbolic of being able to crack the code and possess the power of the magical plant. After Arthur took ill (in his later years) he was told that he must seek and find the Holy Grail to renew his strength and re-acquire his power."
|By Nan (Nanook) on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 09:35 pm:|
I have seen this and similar ideas being bounced around for years... But I have some personal problems with it... And now I unholster my sidearm and shoot completely from the quo.
I have never tried A. Muscaria. My studies of this shroom have led me to think I will probably never try it. It is mildly toxic (enough to cause severe cramping in some cases) and the high has been reported to me by trusted and experienced people as being "non-psychedelic" and "grungy".
Does not hold my interest.
The question is did it hold the interest of our forebears to the point where it was ever considered a sacrament, and this I am not at all sure of. It was replaced by alcohol as soon as fermentation was discovered, and you would think that a substance held in that high of esteem would not have dissappeared in favor of a mazur of mead or flagon of beer. This part does not make sense to me logically.
I would think that any substance, compound or drug with that much history and impact would have to be somewhat stronger, cleaner, and more enlightening. I am thinking the roots of this idea are based in more Paganistic and Witchcraft thoughts... They brewed a water extraction of several syngergistic plants and it was served in a ritual manner from a special cup... A European version of Ayahuasca.
There is support for this in 15th, 16th, and 17th century European Witchcraft, and the Halloween myth of Witches flying on brooms. The Witches of that era were using a mixture of plant extracts adminstered sexually in order to divine and have out of body experiences.
Unfortunately we have the chruch to blame for the supression of this knowledge. It is unlikely the truth will ever be found in history, it will have to be rediscovered. But my personal opinion is that the A. Muscaria people are barking up the wrong tree with this one.
|By SneyoS (Soyens) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 12:01 am:|
Goddamn religion! always causing trouble!
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 12:40 am:|
rebel all you want, religion is here to stay.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 05:04 am:|
Yet still no reason not to rebel.
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 02:27 pm:|
Anything that says "was and is a..." and "obvious analogy" when describing something that is quite clearly a theory (a wierd one, at best) makes me leary. It reminds me about the religious ladies that come to my house and tell me that, "this is, without question, the way God is and we are 100% positive about..." Among other questions I am left with is, why is this sacred mushroom only referenced in crazy ananogies instead of ever mentioning the actual mushroom. For a more convincing history of the Holy Grail see Indiana Jones and The Last Crusades.
|By Sillycybin (Sillycybin) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 05:47 pm:|
Quote from Nanook:
"The Witches of that era were using a mixture of plant extracts adminstered sexually in order to divine and have out of body experiences."
trying to picture that one,
|By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 09:32 pm:|
Well I know there are women out there so I did not wish to be crude, the extract was made into an ointment and was smeared onto a wooden dildo... Hence the "broomstick"
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 10:54 pm:|
well, it would make for personal comfort on long rides
|By saluras (Saluras) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 01:28 am:|
i've done alot of a.muscaria and all i can say is that it can make you sick, the buzz is like a drunk feeling. nothing like p.cubensis. i won't eat one again.
|By monkeyod (Monkeyod) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 02:23 am:|
I believe that the broomstick came from the fact that the roads were not in good shape back then and people used to use long 'sticks' that they carried with them to 'polevalt' over huge puddles. Don't belive the Monkey? Then point your browser over here and give it a listen (you need realplayer). This is a GREAT NPR show called rewind and they have archives back to 1998. This is one of the funniest weekly radio program around...give it a listen.
|By Piss Chill (Catfishjohn) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 01:35 pm:|
There is also another interpretation what the Bible's reference to the Holy Grail or "vessel" really meant. For centuries, certain powerful families in Europe traced their blood lines back to Jesus. They claimed to be his descendents. Thus, the vessel that held Jesus' blood could have been referring to a person. Several wars were fought over this, including a battle in France in which the Vatican decided to annihilate a town with people who claimed to be these descendents and thus represented a threat to the Vatican's power. When told that there were good Catholics there, the Pope or commander reportedly said, "let God sort them out" i.e., separate the heretics from the Catholics after death. Obviously it's impossible to prove or disprove this but the idea of a charasmatic person having a son or daughter isn't that big a leap of faith for me.