Nan's Nook : Archives : Jars : Birthing
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Do BIRTHDAYS have to be clean?  11   jared

By Some Body (Texasshroomer) on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 07:59 pm:

Hello all,

I have many many jars that have been fully colonized for over 2 weeks but have not pinned yet.

I intend to grow in the PF aquarium style method. Should I go ahead and birth them now, or wait? It's been a while. Also, I am using gulf coast strain.



By Cbee (Cbee) on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 09:06 pm:

with the experience I have, id say birth them, do they look healthy? Maybe dunk when you birth them, before they start to pin to give em some more moisture to pin with, and try dropping the temp 5-10 degrees... also have you started to give them light? they need that to pin... Id birth and dunk for 12 hours, then put in aquarium

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 11:15 pm:

good advice cbee.

good info.

By Cbee (Cbee) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 12:08 am:

thanks brettie =)

By Spot Smith (Spot) on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 01:29 am:

How long after 100% colonization of jars before pinning can be observed? Can cakes be birthed immediately after surface colonization?

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 05:49 am:

The inside of the cake colonizes slowest... best to wait 3-5 after outside is colonized to birth.

By Sha Taki (Mushymouth) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 09:26 pm:

Everyone has been very helpful. Thank you so much. Here is today's question.

20 days since inoculating PF strain (standard PF Tek). Cakes are almost 100% colonized, we think we're seeing pins (tiny, tiny, white things?). No brown bumps or worm like thingies like PF mentions yet. Should we birth or wait?

By Nan (Nanook) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 09:57 pm:

You can't birth until you get to 100% colonized, then I usually let them go 3-4 days after that before birthing. Give em some light if you are not already, that will speed up the pinning process.

By Rich G. (Vicwaters) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 10:28 pm:

You may also take the tape off and turn them upside down. (Provided that the verm barrier at the top is still intact. This seems to help when I have that problem.

By benofnazareth (Benofnazareth) on Saturday, November 03, 2001 - 08:26 am:

then i shall proceed. thanks patrick!

By Scotsman (Barrowland) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 06:52 pm:

how do u tell top from bottom of the cake,when in the jar is the top or bottom of the cake facing the lid,its so i dont put them in upside down

By Lichen (Lichen) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:12 pm:

I assume you're talking about birth and casing? It doesn't matter, and you can even flip them one way and then another inbetween flushes when you've dunked and are recasing

By Scotsman (Barrowland) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:33 pm:

no casing ,i mean before i put them in the terrarium,which way up do the cakes sit in the terrarium ,which is top and which is bottom

By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:43 pm:

say your jars are sitting on the glass and the lids ontop right. flip it that way. so the cake will be sitting on the extra verm layer which you may have added. <~ kinda like this pic (knew it would come in handy!)

By Scotsman (Barrowland) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 08:01 pm:

got it,so the mycelium covered bottom of the glass will be facing heaven,it is an easy Q but hard to word......thanks

By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 08:26 pm:

yep :] glad me could help.

By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 08:48 pm:

just want to be clear
so u set the cakes on the verm barrier right???

By quote: (Quote) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 02:21 pm:

i do, then i add verm. to the bare side on top.

By Great Expectations (Shade) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:08 pm:

My first cakes have finished colonizing which brings me nothing but great joy. However, one of my cakes has shrunk so much that it's only about 2/3 the size it was a week ago. Is this because of water loss?

By Lichen (Lichen) on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:22 pm:

Usually when colonizing the cakes don't lose too much water, unless you've got a lot of evaporation thru the holes in the lid. It's probably just normal shrinkage due to the mycelium eating on the rice. If you think it might be somewhat dry, go ahead and dunk it before you case and put it into the fruiting chamber.

By nuecrew (Nue) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 03:40 am:

Thats why they call them "magic". They transmute water and rice into mushrooms!

By quote: (Quote) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 02:24 pm:

i've seen shrinkage before, it's rather odd how some cakes can shrink to hockey puck size while others barely shrink at all.
doesn't seem to matter much,
either way.

By Brad (Raze) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 12:15 am:

When the jars first reach 100%, wont the centers still be just BRF and not colonised? Do I have to wait at all after it reaches 100%? Two of mine are half way there already (though one of them looks like its contamed)

By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 12:27 am:

wait a week after 100% colinization then birth.
or wait for pins.

By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 12:39 am:

you dont have to wait a full week, i think 4 days is fine. but if you dont have pins it might be a good idea to introduce them to light so by the time the center is colonized you will be shortly seeing pins.

By Brad (Raze) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 12:56 am:

Cool, thanks. I've estimated that they'll be done by the first week of december. I innoculated half on the 17th, the other half on the 20th. I figured 14 days later is the 1st and 4th. I have them at 85 degrees... My estimate sound about right?

By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:20 am:

Hopefully .

By quote: (Quote) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 02:31 pm:

yes, they should be fully colonized by 14 days.
it does take a few more days to reach the center,
but unless you plan to cut them up, that's not a problem.

Shroom Glossary : Dunking After Birth : Free Mycelial Syringe : Grow Chambers

By Drew Man (Dman) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 06:06 am:

I have 5 vermiculite and BRF jars started with 60cc of water. I seem to have some uneven growth of mycelia in the jars. Should I birth them if they are uneven or should I try and case them? If i should case them can I case using BRF and vermiculite? I think I can just use the same measurements I used for my jars and multiply it then just add water and bake in tinfoil for 250 degress ferenheit for one hour right? If I have my idea of casing wrong please let me know though!?

By plinkerdink420 (Plinkerdink420) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 07:12 am:

don't birth unless they are at least 100% colonized.. casing with BRF and vermiculite will probably give you a loss as it will most likely contaminate... you would have to be an extremely clean person to get away with that... casing isn't adding extra substrate... jars will usually colonize at different rates... just go with the flow...

Shroom Glossary

By Scotsman (Barrowland) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 05:31 pm:

i have not dunked my cakes yet but i took the 100% colonised out the jar and dried the sides , now i notice a little blue on 1 cake i may have caused it taking it out the jar , will it be ok it aint contams is it

By quote: (Quote) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 05:38 pm:

not to worry, happens all the time.
bluing is just the tissue bruising, or stressed.
prolly from you touching it.

By Sillycybin (Sillycybin) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 11:51 pm:

Don't be blue just cause your cakes are, Scotsman


By Scotsman (Barrowland) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 04:39 pm:

now we got a joker in the community...change your name to

By quote: (Quote) on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 05:29 pm:

hey, that's funny, sort of.

By scilly psyman (Madcow) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 06:25 am:

First I want to thank everyone here (Nan especially) for such a great resource and such helpful advice. It makes the learning curve a good bit shorter.

My questions tonight are twofold. I just birthed the following cake that I had suspected was contamed b/c it shrank in the jar a noticeable amount and seemed dead near the top. Anyway I decided to birth individually to see what I could learn. pins I cased with verm top and bottom and had significant growth through the bottom layer. It had so many pins on the bottom of the cake (none on top) that I have, for now, left it upside down in an effort to promote maturation of what's there. I have read in various places that this is not a good idea b/c the mushies will try to grow up from how they were oriented during incubation (which would now be down). So was I supposed to just clean off all the tiny pins when I birthed and turn right side up? Will these grow right if left like this or should I clean the cake, dunk, set up-right and wait for the next flush?

Second question is relative to clear case of green mold. green mold This cake was almost colonized when this showed up. Is there anything that can be done or is green mold always pretty much a total loss?

Thanks again for the help.

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 06:35 am:

Just leave the cake with the pins like it is and fruit as usual(provide proper humidity, light, temp, and air exchange).

You can try and cut the top half of the cake with the mold off and rinse the rest real good under the faucet then fruit it in isolation(a quart jar with a little wet perlite would work good), but no promises.

Next time you make up jars, you might want to use the fine verm.

That coarse stuff is really best for casing.

By Jesseb (Jesseb) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 03:46 pm:

I always just chuck the green. No use in taking any chances.


By Tom Baxter (Kappy) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 10:43 pm:

when my jars are 100 % colonized do i scrape off the extra vermiculite or leave it on for watering?>?

By Nan (Nanook) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 11:11 pm:

Scrape the loose verm off with a spoon. Rinse the cake in tap water and proceed to "double-end casing"

By Organism (Organism) on Wednesday, December 26, 2001 - 12:44 am:

I just birthed my cakes into a styrofoam cooler w/ lid cut out, replaced with plexiglass. I should only spray the cakes with the spray shield in place right? Fan when I spray? Should I spray down the inside walls of this chamber before the cakes go in?
Thanx for input.

* Avoid spraying cakes directly, a sheild is not required if you use Perlite. Fan when first opening the grow chamber, then mist, and quickly seal the lid when done spraying to trap the water vapor and mist droplets inside. When fruiting cakes always keep the chamber walls misted and visibly moist - Nan

By big slick (Baddaboom) on Thursday, January 03, 2002 - 03:34 pm:

Inocullated 24 jars 12/20, 3 jars are 95% colonized, been exposing them to light 24/7 cause I wanted to do quote neg tek. No signs of pinning, but now I'm thinking from reading posts on this site I could dunk (the 3 jars) cut em in half and case with vermiculite on top and bottom, may lose some cakes to contamination, but maybe I will have shrooms within 10 days. Is this feasable?

I appreciate the info from this site, thanks

By quote: (Quote) on Thursday, January 03, 2002 - 04:02 pm:

not really.
10 days is far too fast, for cakes with no visible pinning.
my advice is to just let them finish,
you'll get more shrooms.

By chummy (Chummy) on Monday, January 28, 2002 - 11:44 pm:

Just completed some jars yesterday.They have been sitting for one day now.I have a certain constraint otherwise I would have birthed them.Are they going to be harmed by any delay?How long can they hold out.Thanks yall!

be well

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Monday, January 28, 2002 - 11:49 pm:

Once you see pinning, you should birth them, or fruit them right in the jar (in-vitro)

If you keep them dark, they can last for quite a spell without pinning up, with no ill effects

By chummy (Chummy) on Monday, January 28, 2002 - 11:53 pm:

Do you know how long they can sit?I turned them over about a week ago to complete the bottom half.I look through the bottom of the jar and I see them getting fuzzy.Does this mean they are going to pin soon?

By Dr. Cubensis (Shroomzilla) on Monday, January 28, 2002 - 11:54 pm:


What Brettie Said.

You can also toss them into ziplock bags and
store them in the fridge for a LONG time.

My friend usually sprays a shot of spring water
into the bag first.. :)

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 12:25 am:

If you stick em in the fridge,(after 100% colonization) they can last a really long time, maybee months.

They kinda decide to fruit when they want to, but just because they are fully colonized, doesn't necessarily mean they are gonna pin up right away.

I know I'm being vague, but there really is no perfect answer...... If you cool them off and keep them dark, that should hold off pinning for as long as possible.

By Hatcher (Hatcher) on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 05:35 am:

When I left the last ex, both fully colonized and ready-to-inoculate jars sat, and lasted between five and six weeks I figure, peekin' in on them time-to-time. Funny thing, comtams kinda gottem 'em all 'bout the same time, and it was more than one opportunist.
The pc'd 1/2pt. jelly test jars not yet utilized did better than the wide-mouths, deeper verm layer I reckon. Two to the point of usin' 'em, the other to the point of watchin' it go. Took several weeks tho...
Knowledge gleened from unexpected circumstances. If I coulda gotten on-line faster, they probably woulda went into zip-loks and the 'fridge. Lucky us..!:)
Well, gotta save some cakes from drownin' and sing happy birthday..Later!

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 05:56 am:

quote.. Shroomzilla.

"My friend usually sprays a shot of spring water
into the bag first.. [:)]"

Couldn't say I recomend that though, unless you were just storing them for a period of less than 48 hours. Doing that could lead to water damage.

By Organism (Organism) on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 06:14 pm:

I'm wondering, because I can't seem to find it, if fruiting is possible if you birth and dunk before signs of primordia develop in the jar. I'm thinking a lack of water inside is preventing them from starting to form 'knots'. Will they form after birthing and dunking in the fruit chamber? Thanks guys.

By Arevewe (Arevewe) on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 10:55 pm:

I have often birthed before primordia appear. This usually results in a longer initial delay before the first flush. I have not tried any dunking teks, but this may shorten the delay.

By Kman (Kman) on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 01:20 am:

ya I've done the same and recently had a BUMPER crop of eq's and plantasia. All were birthed a few days after 100% colonization. I had almost decided to go with flat cakes exclusively until these cakes fruited, now I'm thinking I might turf the flat cakes to make room for more pf cakes.

Dunking After Birth :
Double-End Casing : Growing Invitro : Shroom Glossary

By Ron (Clubbenguy) on Saturday, January 26, 2002 - 11:09 pm:

Well, I have this full colonized full pint jar. About 1 week ago (since I last checked it) it had made no progress so I put it in my dresser and left it alone (i figured it had dried out). Well I checked to day and there is one big shroom already growing thru the top pure verm layer and several pin heads all throught the jar (smushed against the glass). My question is, would it be better just to let things continue invitro, or can i birth the cake??? Also, I believe the answer is no, but could I try casing this cake, or is that a bad idea since it already started pinning. How would you crumble a cake that is already pinning???

Thanks guys

By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 12:29 am:

You can still grow it out pf tek. Your shrooms will grow flat if they have been growing invitro for to long.

If you wanted to do a casing you remove the pins before crumbeling the cake apart.

By quote: (Quote) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 12:46 am:

i wouldn't crumble/case it since it's already flushing.
you can either go invitro or birth to terrarium, your choice. either will work ok.

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 01:03 am:

If the cake is in a pint jar and you let the shrooms get too big in there you will probably have a hell of a time getting the cake out as the shrooms will have wedged it in, you might need to break the cake. I only do 1/2 pints invitro. And usually I move the 1/2 pint cake into a pint or quart jar, even though the shrooms will grow in the 1/2 pint jar just fine (the 1/2 pint cake won't get stuck like the full pint cake). It just give them some more room. I like that fuller look but the flat ones are essentially the same. It nothing serious, just something to consider.

By Ron (Clubbenguy) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 01:15 am:

Well I went ahead and birthed it only to find a shroom with green all over it.....damn.....I havent even harvested 1 dose yet, and i took up this DAMN hobby in october. Guess i just suck, but I am going to keep trying.

By Imok Urok2 (Imok) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 01:44 am:

Hey Ron,
Remember what Edison said about genius,
1 percent insperation and 99 percent persperation :)
Your well on your way to being a myco-genius

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 02:40 am:

Ron, you say the shroom had green on it. Are you sure it was trich? I have never seen a shroom with trich on it. It is usually the substrate that gets the green. Could you post a picture or a description of this green shroom. Sometimes shrooms get a little greenish color near the base. If that is the case it might not be bad. Some people have posted pictures of this, maybe someone has one they could post? If the green is all over it, however, that is probably bad.

By Ron (Clubbenguy) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 03:00 am:

No there were just a few green stripes, and they were by the base. No where else on the outside of the cake is green anywhere..But it was that turquoise green color of our nasty friends. MAybe i'll get lucky, I didnt pitch the whole cake but i immediately picked and tossed that particular all hope is not lost yet....there are like 8 or 9 other pins on there, so even if I only get three decent sized ones to grow...I will be happy...cause then i will have tripped from my own know the feeling of accomplishment....i can get shrooms anywhere, but i want to eat MINE......thanks for all of the votes of confidence though guys/gals......


By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 03:12 am:

Hey Ron, if it was just a few turquoise strips by the base I really think that shroom was fine. I have had some of those as have several other people here. There might still be some pictures around, see if you can find any. Anyways, no one has had any problem with eating them. I know I've eaten my share. If you get another one and can post a picture, do so. Thanks.

By quote: (Quote) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 06:47 am:

sounds like bruising to me.
before you pitch it next time,
try rinsing it off.
bruising won't wash off, because it's in the tissue.
contams such as green mold will wash off,
and such can be discarded,

By Ron (Clubbenguy) on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 02:22 am:

I just thought brusing was more bluish. This was like a turquioise (more green than blue). Who knows, SO if the actual shroom is moldy, the mold will wash off. You learn something new every day.

By Hatcher (Hatcher) on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 08:00 am:

What'd it smell like?? That shoulda told the tale..

By Ron (Clubbenguy) on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 06:18 pm:

Well, it didnt have a distinct moldy smell, but i just figured cause it was only a tiny bit green. I didnt want to take any chances, so i pitched the one shroom. No biggie, I am happy to report that the cake that this greenish shroom came from is flushing nicely. I will definetly get ay least 2-3 grams this flush, b/c ther are no aborts all pins are fruiting and growing (PES Hawaiian from Another question, would dunking and doing the drill tek be a little overkill with hydration, or not.

Thanks all

By Chuck Dicey (Dirtywop) on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 10:11 pm:

I just recently birthed some pf half-pints that were exposed to some sort of high temps...
What, in you guys experience should a newly birthed cake look like? Mine have sort of a smooth, glassy kind of surface, and a clay-like rubbery inside. Is that abnormal? Am I just paranoid? When I look at pictures the cakes seem to look a little different. All in all they seem healthy and I got lots of white fuzzies so I'm hoping for the best.
thanks folks

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 03:11 am:

If the cakes really got too hot they prolly would have died.

Fuzzy = not dead.

Sounds like you should be fine.

Oh yeah, a dunk at birth couldn't hurt,

are you familiar with the DunkTek ?

By Chuck Dicey (Dirtywop) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 03:35 pm:

sure...but it's too late to dunk these guys, they're pinnin
I got about 6 rye cakes I could try that on...

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 05:36 pm:


By Delekhan J. Delekhan (Delekhan) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 01:46 am:

About 3 of my PF cakes (PR's) look to be about 80-90% colonized. White has made it all the way around but the bottoms are still bare (should they colonize too?) They've been sitting at a steady 85 degress (heat provided by indirect light from a lamp) for about a week and a half. Am I getting close to birth? Should I see any invitro pinning with these PR's? Should I be getting my fruiting chamber ready? What should I be expecting?


By Delekhan J. Delekhan (Delekhan) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 02:13 am:

BTW, so far so good on my microwave sterilization, no contams yet. I screwed up my first batch of substrate though, I know it's lame but my measurements were off and I think it ended up too dry, so I wasted about half a syringe of spore solution on the jars I did with that. One jar has colonized (actually doing quite well it seems), none of the rest have shone any growth. I made a new batch of substate that seemed much better after I realized my first one wasn't working out too well. Out of five jars made with the new substrate, 4 have growth, 1 doesn't.

Anyway, the one old jar and 2 of the viable new jars are almost colonized. The remaining new jars are at about 50%.

All sterilized in the microwave at different times, some boiled in a plastic pot in the microwave (seemed to work out best). None of the jars with growth have shown any contams. One of the old jars with the poor substrate developed some kind of greyish stuff growing in it, since it didn't have any myc. growth I just threw it out, fearing it might be cobweb or something and not wanting to infect my new cakes.

Anyway... that's my progess... back to my question... what do I need to be doing.. what should I be expecting, looking for... anything soon?


By Vwaddict (Vwaddict) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 02:20 am:

yes, the cake needs to colonize the bottom. after the cake looks fully colonized give it a few more days to make sure the middle is colonied, maybe 5 days. with your incubating temps you should be 100% in no time. how long has it been since inoculation? i inoculated 12 jars of Hawaiian on 1/26 today 2/6 they are mostly 95% and a few are fully colonated.

I cant help ya on the invitro pinning, not sure how PRs would do with that tek. but with all that light your giving them...

yes, you need to get your fruiting chamber ready!! they need to be placed in the chamber immediatly after birth.

good luck!