Brown Rice

Nan's Nook : Archives : Substrate : Brown Rice
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Grind your own BRF  10 12/07 11:20pm  

By Jared (Jared112) on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 10:53 pm:

I found what I was looking for. I ground up 1 bag of rice and got about the same amount of flour from it as those packages that cost $2.50 a piece. What a great deal, the only bad thing is that you have to have some way of grinding it, and the grinders are kind of expensive.
rice and grinder

PF Tek For Simple Minds - Nan

By whoever (Livedangerous) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 11:28 pm:

When I went to the store to buy Rice Flour [Brown Rice Flour, BRF, Brown Rice Powder] I noticed a choice of Brown or white. Does it make a difference? Also, does the freshness of the flour really matter? No way am I grinding it up fresh myself, so I'm really asking if it matters if the rice flour is bought packaged(bag sealed) or open air?

Shroom Glossary : Nan's Nook Simple Cubie Tek

By Merlin of Camelot (Merlin) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 12:24 am:

Yes, it does make a difference, use the brown rice and personally, I think freshness always counts.That's just my opinion, though.

By monkeyod (Monkeyod) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 01:10 am:

Brown rice is the way to go and make it organic. Never know if they put fungicides in the non-organics. Making your own is a good and cheap way to go as well. If you have a coffee grinder it's real easy. It's a little chunkier but that's works out better for the shrooms. Good Growing to you.

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 01:48 am:

I don't think freshness will be an issue because it seems to me, it would need to be very old to lose nutrition (I mean old like don't let your grandkids use your leftovers, not like 3 weeks old) and any contam build-up from sitting around will be sterilized out. Same goes for decideing between bagged BRF and the kind you scoop out of a bin, the only issue would be contamination. It's not really an issue, however, if correctly sterilized. As far as white vs. brown, I've only heard of Brown being used, I think it has something to do with how they make it white.

By monkeyod (Monkeyod) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 02:41 am:

White rice is over proccessed...not near as good as brown. Go with which ever is cheapest and organic (bag vs bulk).

By Saney (Saney) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 06:42 pm:

White rice is bleached to take out the color

Freshness doesn't count IMHO, but, grinding your own is the only way to go. I grind my own rice in a coffee grinder, it works great. Rizo growth all the time. I also used some brown rice flour, it makes the Substrate really thick, the mycellium has a much harder time growing through it.. That's why people have problems with colonizing the bottoms. Grinding it yourself keeps the substrate almost chunky, very airy.. Average colonization in cold philadelphia for me is 10 days. PF Classics took 7 :) Peace, grind your own!

By Brad (Raze) on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 02:38 am:

I'm having a very difficult time locating brown rice (thats organic) in my area. One of th efirst supplies I picked up was ground brown rice from a health food store, but then after I got home I realized that I never checked out to see if it was organic, so I phoned.. It wasnt.
Now I'm stuck, no where that I know of in my area seems to have it.

So there's two parts to this post:

a) Is there any brand name supplier that I might be able to find in a grocery store? Thats the only place I havent checked yet (grocery stores)

b) Is there a good alternative to BRF? I know rye is an option, but heard it wasnt as productive. And I'm definately not using shit.

Thanks for any input.

By monkeyod (Monkeyod) on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 04:19 am:

What you have will most likely work. Just have to worry if they added fungicide to the rice. Not a very good health food store if they don't carry organics. Just stick with the brf if you're new to the game...then after you get that down, you can move on up to other teks.

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 06:15 am:

I've gotten organic brown rice(whole grain) from the grocery store.... you just have to grind it in a blender.

No biggie.

By Brad (Raze) on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 12:10 pm:

Any way I can get rid of the fungicide? Like boiling or something?

And I know its abad health food store... its a small town

By Lichen (Lichen) on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 12:20 pm:

Brad, what have you got against shit? Don't be so prejudiced, some shrooms are designed to eat shit.

If your rice has been treated with any 'cides, you will notice that your cakes do not colonize very quickly. I had this experience when I first tried the pftek a couple years ago. The cakes were somewhat weak in their flushes, and growth was slow. However, some people have said Uncle Ben's works well enough. You might look for Lundburg. Best bet is to try for organic.

Do you live in a 3rd world country? I feel people's frustration when they can't find the proper ingredients. All the time it's "where do I find jars?" or "where can I get vermiculite?"

I must be spoiled.

By Brad (Raze) on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 08:04 pm:

I live in a small town, and with no way out. I cant take the vehicle too far out of town because I'd have to go on the 400 series, which my parents wont let me do (think I'll kill myself or something, who knows... its odd how they coudl care less about me drinking or doing drugs but dont want me on the highway).
Anyways.... I found vermiculite, and I found jars (hardwork for jars, had to get them ordered in, but I did it).

And by Uncle Bens do you mean white rice? I'm not a rice eater so I dont really know what they offer, but my sister ate his White rice like it was going out of style for 2 years straight

By Nanook of the North (Nanook) on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 08:35 pm:

Actually I have tested both of the most common whole grain brown rices found in the local grocery stores here, including Uncle Ben's and Lundberg Whole Grain Brown Rice. Buy the cheapest Whole Grain Brown Rice you can find on sale or in bulk. Grind it in a coffee grinder or a blender. Go cheap. They all work fine, a coarse grind is find. Do not use white rice.


By Professor Fustertingle (Fustertingle) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 10:14 pm:

I have q on rice. What are the thoughts on home-ground rice? Is it true that it is better than the store-bought rice powder? And is it also true that a courser grind might be better than an actual fine ground powder?

By Saluras (Saluras) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 10:52 pm:

I've heard alot of good news about home ground rice. I've tried it both ways, I really don't see a huge difference (growth or potentcy).

do whatever works best for you.

By Vitticeps (Admin) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 10:56 pm:

Some do say that a coarse ground rice meal is better than a powder. I always used store bought powder with no compliants but I got my brf for $0.69/pound. That was cheaper than buying whole grain rice and chopping it myself.

By Brad (Raze) on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 03:19 am:

Ok, everyone says to get Organic BRF... I could only find BRF one place in my town, I bought a huge bag of it, not thinking about the whole organic factor. I called back a day later, they said it wasnt.
A few days later I prepared one jars, but didnt innoculate or sterilize it. Then I let it sit. Within days it was covered in mold. Now, about three weeks later it looks almost like a cake, but with weird coloured blotches all over.
Now what I'm thinking is this, if mold can grow in it, then it would be suitable to use as substrate right? Because the very same pesticides that may be used would be geared towards mold, rather than the mushrooms. Its just that they are in the same family and are both affected by it.
Am I right to think this?

By monkeyod (Monkeyod) on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 03:45 am:

Sounds like it will work fine. Some times they add an antifungal agent to the mix...just depends on the brand. You can also just buy organic brown rice and use a coffee grinder to make your own 'chunky' style BRF...most say this is the better of the two.

By Nan (Nanook) on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 04:56 am:

Everbody does not say to use organic Brown Rice. Use cheap Brown Rice, it works fine.

By Brad (Raze) on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 11:15 am:

Excellent, thank you.

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 10:26 am:

If you are wondering about the rice being organic or filled with perservatives check the ingrediants. Organic rice will say "Ingrediants:brown rice." Non-organic will list a bunch of other stuff. But your mold theory probably means it will work. That was some good thinking.

By Brad (Raze) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 01:25 pm:

There aint no ingredients on those big bins

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 01:41 am:

If you got it out of a bin it should say organic BRF,if it only says BRF I would think it was not organic.

By An guy (Boomer) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 01:46 am:

Somewhere there's ingredients- it's food and it's required. Sometimes they have little tags hanging at the end of the row or something? Maybe ask someone?

I think it dont' matter though, except for being a purist- Nan uses uncle freakin bens, which is anything but organic.

I'm using organic Lundgrens right now, because that's what I have on hand for eating. I'll prolly keep using organic when I can, kind of purist/anal.....heh....

I think just as long as it's brown- got some bran left on it. White rice being basically just starch is lacking that stuff, no good...



By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 02:14 am:

When Unky Ben's on sale, sure I will buy it. It works and you don't need to spend money needlessly if it works. You don't get many guarantees in life, but if you follow the "cheap" teks laid out here... You get the most shrooms for the time, effort, and investment. I never advise people to throw money away, unless you honestly need to invest in the hobby: Pressure Cookers, Clean Water, Glovebox... Spend your money where it counts and you get real value. Expensive, organic, or exotic rice are simply not required; and to be honest I detect no difference = zero difference, between them when tested with cloned mycelia.

Spend money on luxuries if you _want_ to, but there is no justification for this expense on the _have to_ level. The holier than thou because I use only pure organic grown all natural never touched by man or animal... Bite me, I see no difference between the cheapest stuff and whatever you spend money on. You'd be better off spending your money on Expensive Crap

Everybody else... Go cheap

By An guy (Boomer) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 05:18 am:

Wasn't trying to be holier than thou, just pointing out that if *you* use non-organic, it's pretty much gospel that it's ok....
Reckon you knew that, this is just in case...:)

By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 06:00 am:

Oh no... Not you specifically.

There is also only One Tek that specifies "Organic" in the Brown Rice Dept.

Cheap home ground whole brown rice is best. It don't matter where you get the rice from as long as it is edible: not moldy, mildewed, infested with bugs, soggy... Decent clean whole grain brown rice. Grind it in a coffee grinder, blender, food processor... You are set. Golden. And Cheap.

By Nuecrew (Nuecrew) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 06:52 am:

The only short grain rice I can find is organic grown. However I see long grain everywhere. I saw in the 9er tek instructions to get Lunbergs which is organic rice. Sooooo......I only want what makes my little shrooms happy.

By Nan (Nanook) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 07:21 am:

9er mentions a good national brand of rice that works well. I agree with him. Lundberg is a good rice. But it is not organically grown.

Read the label: They do not burn the rice straw in the fields; they use _minimal_ pesticides, herbicides, and commercial fertilizers; they use cover crops when the fields are fallow; they encourage waterfowl (hell yeah, they plant Rice); they practice water conservation (they call em paddies).

All practices that any good farmer uses... Most definately not organic. Look at the rice: Is it clean? Is there mold? Are there bugs? Are the grains cracked and broken? Is it wet? If you are really good you can crack a grain between your teeth and determine if the rice is stale or not.

Most Brown Rice passes the test, buy what's cheap.

By Lichen (Lichen) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 02:48 pm:

my $.02

I have experimented extensively with different kinds of rice, organic and other. I found that the non-organic rice didn't produce shrooms as strongly as organic. With organic rice the jars colonize more quickly, the mycelium is more bright white, and flushes are faster and produce more, and the cakes live longer. I'd say an obvious margin of 25% exists between the two...Not to be argumentative, just reporting my findings :0)

By Underground_Shaman (Shaman) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 05:28 pm:

I have to concur with Lichen, since I feel that my post was the one in question. I've tried many different types of brown rice, and in my experience the organic is best (and I don't like the chems that may be used in farming), BUT YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.

Plus, in most large grocery stores, you have a choice of organic or not, and it really isn't much more expensive (maybe like 20 cents a pound more for organic). Just a personal preference, and I_WAS_answering a question.



By Nan (Nanook) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 12:24 am:

I make no qualms about it... Hundreds have registered here, but thousands more are lurking and learning because we are posting _Good Info_ here...

I suspect that labeling on rice in not always accurate (as grain is frequently mixed), I suspect that health food stores do not always sell "organic" rice, and if you read the labels carefully... What looks organic is not necessarily in fact organic. Look at Lundberg "Nutra-Farmed"...

I generally go to an "international" market and look at the grades of bulk brown rice, and select my rice as I would select produce... I look at it, run a hand through it, maybe crack a grain between my teeth to make sure it is fresh. There is no way to tell how it was grown without extensive research and laboratory testing for traces of pesticide & herbicide.

But I have also purchased rice on sale at the grocery, including Uncle Ben's... They all work. And honestly when I have run them off with cloned mycelia, I don't see much of a difference. You are saying organic grown rice colonizes much faster... I simply have not see that (which is not an end-all be-all statement): I have not "tested" Uncle Ben's against a control group with cloned Mycelia, but it does colonize and fruit satisfactorally, I have ground up many pounds of it when on sale and it fruited just fine.

By Lichen (Lichen) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 12:38 am:

ok, Nan. I did a dozen jars with 1/8th cup of each kind, organic and non-organic. That's 2 dozen jars, all the same spore race. At the same time, I made another dozen each of org. and non-org with 1/4 cup rice per each.

I found conclusively--if you can call a few dozen jars conclusive--that the PFMax organic jars grew healthier, whiter, thicker mycelium than any other jars. They colonized faster, flushed quicker and more times.

However, I must say I only used 2 kinds of non-organic rice, and one type of organic rice. None of the organic was name-brand.

But my impression is certainly solid.

By Nan (Nanook) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 12:56 am:

I can appreciate that. Realistically though the sampling is too small and the source culture was from spores... It's not conclusive. And the jars with non-organic rice did grow and fruit. I appreciate what you are saying.

Fresh rice is better than stale rice, properly dried rice is better than improperly dried rice. The strain of rice that was organically grown was likely a different strain of rice than is used in more commercial operations. There are lots of factors that produce variables, the only way to iron them out is with commerical quality lab testing with documented histories of the rice genetics, nutrition profiles, and growing conditions, and then using that rice to cultivate several hundred cloned jars.

I am not saying one grade of rice may not be better than another grade. All I am stating is that they all work reasonably well, and the only way to find out what is going to work best for you is to experiment. Regardless, any edible Brown Rice will grow decent shrooms.

By Lichen (Lichen) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 01:06 am:

I find that conclusion acceptable. I will continue to use organic rice, for 2 reasons:
1)I hate herbicides, fungicides, and insecticides for the reason that my body doesn't like them; trace amounts of these substances are present in many types of food. (I NEVER use any 'cides in my gardens; therefore they are organic)
2)it's readily available around here :0)

By Nan (Nanook) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 02:42 am:

Lichen I find that conclusion acceptable too. I laugh to think we have _finally_ talked BR to death... (I just found another old thread in General...)

And again Shaman, I honestly intended no offense, and like every other regular member here I value your opinion in this forum.

By Martaxus (Martaxus) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 07:36 pm:

Oy! I've seen speculation, now wondering if anyone has a solid opinion: Use long grain brown rice or whole grain brown rice?

(both homeground into flour)

I've read one post that said the whole grain was too sticky..? Can anyone give me the pros & cons on this one?


By Nan (Nanook) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 10:47 pm:

Honestly. The best brown rice is the cheapest, most available grade, whatever that may be.

Archives->Substrate->Brown Rice->Grind Your Own BRF

I buy whatever is on sale or cheap in the bulk dept. Go cheap. Grind it in small batches in a coffee grinder, blender, or food processor on high (coffee grinder is best).

By pf (Basamati) on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 06:30 pm:

Will basamati brown rice work okay??

Substrate Question : 9er Tek Jars : How It Started

By Jamie (Jamie) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 09:08 pm:

I was just wondering if I could use Mahatma brand brown rice ( This Kind ) for my cakes even though it does not say organic on the package?. It is the only kind sold in the grocery store in my town. I am planning on grinding it in my coffee grinder and using it as long as it is ok.

Thanx in advance

By Dr. Cubesis III (Newbieshroomer) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 09:52 pm:


I would imagine that just about ANY br would work.
I had been using brf from a bin at the local henrys, but one night in an emergency, I had to go to a 24 hour ralphs and pick up some " not organic " ( At least it didn't specify organic ) brf and it worked just fine. Still using it in fact.

I'd bet my next three flushes you won't have a problem with it :)

By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 09:57 pm:

mahatma's works great, i've used it many times.

By Krytos (Krytos) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 02:45 am:

I read somewhere that you could just cook some rice as a substrate, eliminating the need for verm? I have had a hell of a time finding vermiculite, there was like a 20 lbs. bag at home depot, but thats way to much for me, at least it wasnt too expensive.
Anyway, if this is possible, could I get an outline on how to do this? something real quick and dirty. and what are the benifits and drawbacks of this method?

Thanks guys,


By Nan (Nanook) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 03:03 am:

Here is some good discussion of the 9er Tek jar prep and it has links to the orginal Tek. It works, I recommend slicing or breaking up the resulting cakes and casing them.

By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 03:05 am:

You can do that. There is a good tek in the archieves, see Quarts under substrates (I believe). I don't know how experienced you are but if you are a newbie I would say to go straight PF tek. One of the big advances in home cultivation (easy for beginners) is the use of verm with the rice flour described by the PF tek. I'd have to recommend (highly) buying the 20 pound bag of verm, especially if it's not too expensive. That way you will have some on hand for your following batches. Good luck!

By plinkerdink420 (Plinkerdink420) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 05:43 pm:

with the 9'er though.... it would still be suggested, if you don't have polyfill or filter discs, that is... to use the verm barrier... then you would prolly want some verm for your casing... so that 20lb. bag might not be a bad idea

By Karna (Karna) on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 12:10 am:

I have recently learnt (the hard way) that some rices work better than others. I bought some rice from the "Organic brown basmati" bin at the local health food store (which btw has excellent quality rye) and some Lundbergh's of the same variety. The store bi stuff was cheaper by about a dollar a lb. Using identical processes, the Lunbergh's has colonized in 1 week flat and the store bought has just started to grow out into spots. Sometimes you just have to shell out that extra buck before you get any bang.