Nan's Nook : Archives : Misc Tek : Eatyualive's Flat Cake Tek
  Subtopic Posts Updated Creator
Patrick's Sliced Flat Cake Tek  25 11/22 05:06am  
About the flat cake tek  90 12/13 11:32pm Ashenms
Eatyualives PF cake Spawn Tek 4 3/03 Eatyualive
Flat Beds  113 12/31 06:44pm  
Lazy Mofo Spawn Bags 1 6/03 Eatyualive
Jar Fruiting vs Flat Cake Tek  20 12/15 01:52am  
Flatcake From Lazy Mofo Spawn Bags! 6 2/03 Eatyualive
Update to Flatcake Tek: Crumble Tek  24 12/24 11:25pm Eatyualive

By Eatyualive (Eatyualive) on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 05:22 pm:

Flat Cake Tek

Supplies:
1. caserole dish(glass only)
2. saran wrap
3. vermiculite
4. fully colonized pf cake 2 weeks after 100%colonization.
5. needle
6. distilled water
7. fork
Directions:
1. First sterilize your area with lysol disinfectant sprayed in the air. then use rubbing alcohol to sterilize your table. finally use rubbing alcohol to sterilize yourself and any tools u are working with.
2. presterilize vermiculite for 25 minutes at 325 degrees.
3. now birth the jars. first scrape of verm layer and add three jars per flat square caserole dish. jar
4. remove any primordia or pins that have started.now break up cakes into small pea size pieces. you pretty much crumble the cakes.
j
5. Next, you mix distilled water with your vermiculite. allow the verm to be damp not wet. maybe only a drop comes out between your fingers when a handfull is squeezed.
6. now use the fork to evenly pack down the mycelia. make sure it is as even as possible this will help in the future.
7.now spread the verm. over the cakes evenly, covering the mycelia entirely. now use your hand to pat down the vermiculite so that it is nice and snug.3
8. use the saran wrap over the caserole dish and poke 10 or 12 holes randomely in the saran wrap. now label your trays.This image shows the trays covered with saran wrap,verm, and labeled. ready for incubation.
1
9. Finally incubate your containers in total darkness for 3 to five days until the mycelia is thick and looks like a fully colonized pf jar again. the pieces that you broke up will grow together and look like one cake now.
10. Do not allow light in incubation room and do not use heating pads.
11. Once the dishes have grown through. birth them by scraping the top verm layer off and then use a fork CAREFULLY to pull the cake away from the edge of the caserole dish. Now flip the cake upside down on top of the saran wrap and on top of the lid to the caserole dish.
TIP: WHEN PLACING THE TRAY INSIDE THE CONTAINER A GOOD HINT IS TO TAKE A THE PART OF THE SARAN WRAP HANGING OVER THE CASEROLE DISH LID AND STICK IT TO YOUR TERRARIUM WALL. THIS HELPS THE MUSHROOMS TREMENDOUSLY. ANOTHER TRICK I LEARNED BY ACCIDENT.


Principles:
1. more surface area to grow
2. easy dunks after first flush
3. creates a big flat cake that is thinner
4. mycelia grows more fruits bc it is not as tightly bound as the original cake

By Vcshrooms (Vcshrooms) on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 02:09 am:

Would it be better to use something more rich in nutrients to cover the crumpled cake? I'm willing to spend a little more money if need be.

By Kaijan (Kaijan) on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 02:13 am:

it wouldnt be very beneficial--- He's scraping the casing layer off anyway...

Eatyualive, next time try flipping the cakes as you do, but case them with Worm Castings or peat/manure/verm... your crops will most likely double in size. IMHO.

kai.

By Eatyualive (Eatyualive) on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 07:38 am:

Kaijan,
I do casings separately. this method enables very good second flushes. seriously, though. i do know this. i have about 15 trays of casings that will be ready in about 2 days. and 4 trays of straw innoculated with hawaiian. this is just an alternative method after growing the pf tek. it seems to flush very well.i can't complain.
i started making my 50/50 with worm castings and limestone flour . but it is just too messy. i like dunking between flushes and it just seems that the casing will get infected between flushes using peat,or manure. Oh shit.... oops u said verm. i do use verm on 2nd flushes and sometimes on particular strains in first flushes such as tc, and hawaiian occasionally.(i heard from hawks eye that the tc's will turn white after like 9 flushes if you make it that far. i had 8 flushes with tc once but only one was close to white or more of a light yellow.)
it may just b me but i don't have much luck using double ended casing tek with pf cakes in the 1st flush. and the cakes get infected so quickly that i have to toss them. i can get a second flush if i am lucky. i am already starting fourth flushes in two weeks using this method. . i feel that this tek is simple for first timers who know nothing about casings and don't want to get their hands dirty. doing this allows more space to cut off infection and it is very easy to dunk using a caserole dish on top of several cakes at a time. if you read some of my other posts with pics it will show the verm on top of some of the cakes. otherwise it is just too much work and time for my factory . i used to just grow out 1st flushes and throw away the cakes for a while bc i had so many cakes on rotation that i did not have time to wait a week to repin and fruit risking contamination setbacks. now i only use second flushes between cycles( or 3rd for that matter). my new cycle will be ready in 2 more days and everything will b fresh. but dunk tek works good. This method is almost like the pf tek method only using differnt shaped cakes and different sizes.
my only complaint about dunk tek is infection. if you catch the infection and remove infected verm before it spreads the tek is easy. wait 3 hours and your screwed. i wouldn't consider a 10oz dry harvest per week a small yield.
Thanks for the suggestion Kai. for some reason i have disputes with casing layers. maybe just the preservation of the pf tek or something , who knows? By the way, what is IMHO?

By Kaijan (Kaijan) on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 07:43 am:

Fair enough. In my humble opinion


kai.

By Saney (Saney) on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 10:29 pm:

Eatualive..

#1 What caserole dish lids? I don't see any lids used :/

#2 What are you talking about when you say stick the saran wrap to the side of something.. huh?

Thanks for the tek, waiting for my hawaiins to colonize then i'm making 3 of your flat cakes.. thanks for the info.

By Johnseemore (Johnseemore) on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 12:25 am:

dude your Flat cake pics rock what kind of setup and formula are you using to get thowes kinds of results if you donít mind me asking. could you post some pics of your setup. I am sure there are others on here that would also like to see it looked like your term's are big flat Rubbermaidís how are you doing your humidity and air exchanges. Thanks in advanced. BTW showed a FOAF and he craped his pants.

-John

By Eatyualive (Eatyualive) on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 08:27 pm:

#1.Saney, you can buy flat caserole dishes at wall mart that come with a green or blue plastic lid. the brand is pyrex or encore. either one works. after your cakes have colonized all you do is flip them over on top of this lid. i use these lids to sit on. if you look at some of my other pics you should be able to see the lids underneath the cakes.
#2. once the cake is flipped and on top of the saran wrap and further on top of the caserole dish lid then you place it in the growing container. place the cake near a wall of the growing container and stick some of the saran wrap that is hanging over the side on the wall. it should cling to the condensation.

By Cabal (Cabal) on Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 11:49 pm:

Eatyualive, I love your flatcake tek. I am anxious to try it. I have questions.
1)How thick (inches)is your verm layer on top of the crumpled up cakes?
2) Would it be ok to place the lids in my rubbermaid container terrarium with perlite?
3)How thick (inches) is your crumpled up cake layer?

By Johnseemore (Johnseemore) on Friday, September 14, 2001 - 05:59 pm:

This is my flat cake.
Hay Eat U You rock man talk about a dream cake. i mad them on the 10th of this month and thay are allready done in 4 days wow. i have them incubating above my refer. here is some pics thay rock.
Flat Cake 2
flat cake side 2
flat cake side 1
flat cake 3

By Surfdog17 (Surfdog17) on Saturday, September 15, 2001 - 06:27 am:

I wonder if you could use rubbermaid containers instead of glass pyrex type containers. It might be a little bit cheaper.

By Johnseemore (Johnseemore) on Saturday, September 15, 2001 - 07:11 am:

If you put your cakes on rotation you dont have to have many pans to have lot of cakes. My cakes are done in 4 days and i have about 6 pans i should have about 45 cakes in one month. I cycle my jars and my cake pans. I turn them around like bitches. and if you get 4 flushes from each cake that be alot o shrooms. i dont see why you cant use any container you want the reason you use the glass is you can see when there totaly done.

By Eatyualive (Eatyualive) on Saturday, September 15, 2001 - 08:23 pm:

john seemore,
good. usually it only takes 2-4 days to rebuild the mycal network. and then birth. but you should flip your cakes upside down with the white mycelia facing upwards. nice work. post your results and dunk between flushes.

Saluras,
Please try to be moderate in your approach. it really sux if u accidentally introduce contamination and all 12 cakes get fudged. so that is why i use 3 at a time. i have done 9 once and the cake had amazing results. but i have had contams before that wiped out tons of hard work. so think small and it may be better.

surfdog17,
i would not suggest using plastic. glass does not have the porous surface that plastic does. i believe that plastic may introduce contaminants easier. it is better to have a clear caserole to monitor the development of the cake by eye.

ALSO GOOD POINT JOHN SEEMORE. i use a rotational basis also. and i have had 5th flushes with my texas strain. John, what kind of strains are you using bc i can tell you some specifics on certain strains such as amazon, treasure coast, mazatec, hawaiian, and others. just let me know.
P.S. John i have to comment on that caserole dish. i used the same size and one the first time i tried this tek. i used about 8 cakes and it was incredible. just keep your cakes hydrated. i sometimes give them a light spray of h2o before i flip them upside down and birth them. wait till you see this setup. i finished my grow chamber with 4 shelves and now i am testing it. i am also testing the flat cakes using a toplayer of verm like a casing to see if there is a differenc.1
here are some albinos2
3
here is a forgotten casing. i havn't opened the container or checked it for a week.4

By saluras (Saluras) on Saturday, September 15, 2001 - 08:30 pm:

i hadn't read the posts, but i did use 12 cakes in 4 different tubs, with no nutrients added. i also did the same thing with 12 in 4 different contaniners with more sterilized b.rice+verm. I'll post results.

By Eatyualive (Eatyualive) on Saturday, September 15, 2001 - 08:32 pm:

John, i meant when i spray with h2o i spray the vermiculite that i just scraped off.

Cabal,

1. the thickness doesn't really matter as long as it covers the mycellia
2. yes, you can place the lids on the perlite in your grow chamber, i do this.
3. mycelia. more nutrients the thicker. usually 1/2 inch is good though. 3 cakes per regular size caserole dish should do the trick.

By Johnseemore (Johnseemore) on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 12:57 am:

Eat YU you rock cool grow chamber. I am using mazatec and EQ and regular PF but i have them all mixed up and i donít know what si what so I GOT SHROOMS. but i am already using a small top layer of wet verm on the bottom of the pan before i put in the cakes and i am making my cakes thick. Would you say you should have 50/50 cake to verm or can you go like 75/25 cake / verm layer. i found i get real big shrooms when i have lots of sub in my straw beds but the dishes i use will only really do a 50 / 50 type mix i was thinking of using a thicker type of glass. what are your thoughts and what about mixing in the verm and the cake to gather to make one mixed layer as thick as the Glassware. Oh one more thing can it be real wet in the term what kind of wether do thies cakes like.

By Eatyualive (Eatyualive) on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 03:31 am:

John i usually grow off of the white mycelia and use the verm layer for 2nd flushes. if you look at my pics the mushrooms get very large so i am sure the thicker you make your cakes the larger. however, you don't need the thickness. it is up to you. i have found that 3 is enough. i am sure you will have a large yield. but you have to think about the cropping surface. the mushrooms still have the same room to grow but the mycelia is thicker. i think that further down the road say 2-4 flushes, the thickness will increase the longevity of your cakes but the point is the surface area. Both EQ and mazatec like a top casing layer of vermiculite. i usally birth the cake and add a thin top layer of wet verm as i birth. the pf grow extremely well with the white mycelia. as for the glass i don't think it matters what the thickness is. the verm layer is really just a buffer layer like the pf tek. it keeps out contams and remoisturizes the cake. then you scrape it when you birth. it is not necessary when it comes to thickness. i would make a suggestion to you on your grow room though. the plugs in the grow room look like a firehazzard with all the air moisture you have in that room. i am not sure what the walls are made of but they may get water damage. maybe you should coat them with plastic wrap. also, i believe you know but you should really key in on sterility in a room like that. make sure you sterilize yourself everytime you enter that room. i mean shower, wear new freshly laundered clothes, a mask and all. take the extra precautions and that may cut back on your green mold. i too have found that straw beds infect easily. but if you use worm castings it is all good. i am a little concerned about the close up pic of the cake. it looks like you have a little extra moisture built up. add less water to your verm. the cake itself looks like it has a little gelatin like growth from excessive moisture. take a fork and gently scrape the gellatin off of the edges of your cake all the way around. email me at [email protected] and we can further discuss the situation.

By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 07:52 pm:

hey eatualive I plan on makeing a flat cake today or soon but before I do I have a few quiestions if its alright,, 1. can I put a flat cake into a small tupperwhere say like 5inches tall 5 inches wide and 7-8 inches long?? or is this to small I live at home so I can't have a big rubbermaid??? well I gusse that the only question I have for now. ps.love your new setup with the shelves! very nice

By Johnseemore (Johnseemore) on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 07:58 pm:

yo liberty get you self this and put it under your bed or something. pic it works great

By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 08:05 pm:

see thats a big tub I have one like that but still thats pretty obovious I think I'll go to wallmart tonight again and buy some bigger tupperwhers like 7-8 inches tall 7 inches wide and 7 inches long? Ill buy a few of tho's and make some flat cakes,, but thanx for posting that pic ps. dam I hate my mom

By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 08:22 pm:

oh ya 1 more quiestion, why do u have to wait 2 weeks after 100% colization to make a flat tek cake? wont it already have mushrooms on it?? can u make a flat cake from a cake that has already flushed? ps. will tupperwhere that big work eatualive? 7-8 inches tall 7 wide and 7 long?
THANX

By Johnseemore (Johnseemore) on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 08:38 pm:

OK here is what i got going on in the past 2 days i birthed 3 cakes and 2 of my other cakes are fruiting not real big yet but they got shrooms.
new beds 1
now the pic below is in my small term.
small term 1

Now eat you here is another pic from my room. room + contemn
now this is the only contemn that i have in the whole room and it is not a problem it is real wet and that is nothing floating in the air so i feel very comfortable putting flat cakes in this room.

By Johnseemore (Johnseemore) on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 09:02 pm:

small up date to the small term picsmall term 2

adn here is a small harvest off of one of my Big Straw beds.
small harvest

By littlebro (Littlebro) on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 09:36 pm:

johnseemore, that contaminated door looks like a flashback for me. get ready to start replacing not only doors, but frames, molding and anything else that is made of wood in your house, painted or not. take it from someone who's been there.

By Eatyualive (Eatyualive) on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 05:34 am:

Liberty Caps,

If you can keep the humidity up then i would say that it would work. i don't know about the temp factor though. you can try and see, i can't gaurentee everything. the reason u wait about a week after colonization is to allow the mycelia to build a stronger network so that when you break the cakes up they recover faster and the flat cake holds together strong. i would say not to use that big of a caserole dish as john did. use a smaller one maybe 12"x8". this will work. don't over do it until you have figured out how it works. then go big.

John, I would say you are a crazy man. thinking in extremes is cool sometimes but you should definately test before you go all out. nice harvest. but that door is nasty and it will get worse. water damage sux!
ok john. your verm layer is too thick. the problem is that you need to add the verm layer as you birth so that primordia hasn't formed. once fruiting has begun the mycelia won't colonize as good. if the first flush is a flaw then you will have a huge second flush if you dunk. i notice a very thick white fuzz on your cakes. This is BAD!
you should scrape this with a fork gently. In all seriousness you should definately grow off of the white mycelia. then flip it after the first flush. once you scrape the verm off at birth the problem is that the cake used all the moisture and the layer is dry. next time use a thin(1/8th inch verm layer). scrape some of the verm off. and you need to get rid of those huge fuzzy areas. If shit starts getting bad break the cakes into four and double ended casing tek it. your first flush isn't going to be all that. you should try it small. then go big until you get the hang of it.
I would like to see a pic of your mushrooms growing in the straw bed when you have a ton like that.
lets set up sometime that we can chat on Nan's Nook. you can email me or post i check often.

By Cbee (Cbee) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 05:16 am:

Was just curious if you could add some dung or soemthing to the cakes as you mash them up to pick in the dishes to make a flat cake.. would this increase flushes? I was thinking of adding a cup or 2 of pasterized cow dung to my groud up cakes and mix it up all nice... I guess this could be looked at as the same deal as the straw tek. So i dunno if this makes sense but do you guys think that adding dung to the flat cake would be benifitial? I think i read somewhere eatyu that you added birdseed or soemthing to your flat cake.. anyways i may just give this a try if no one has yet
Thanks

By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 08:41 am:

A flat cake is basicly just a cased cake..... that is flat.

You are correct in your statement that by mixing something else into the cake(s),post colonization...... you are essentially running spawn to another substrate..... like straw tek.

If you are gonna run spawn..... I'd want a little more "bang for the buck" if you know what I mean.

You could include dung in the casing layer if you are intent on using some(dung, that is).

That would be my suggestion.

By quote: (Quote) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 01:42 pm:

you can do this,
but it will delay fruiting a bit, until the dung colonizes.
but i would only use dung, straw, or worm castings,
no grains or sugars.

By Cbee (Cbee) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 08:10 pm:

alright thanks, i think i will try a dung flat cake =)

By Eatyualive (Eatyualive) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 11:13 pm:

i have tried a dung flat cake already. it does good. but dung gets infected easily so i wouldn't suggest dunking. if you noticed the last pics that i posted, that was a dung, birdseed cake.

By Cbee (Cbee) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 01:08 am:

i saw your coco fiber cakes.. whered you get that stuff?? how much... ive heard alot about it... can you explain how to pasterize, etc?

By An guy (Boomer) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 01:30 am:

Archives

Have a blast man....:)

By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 10:14 pm:

I've seen pics of a flatcake growing shrooms from its edges only, and also pics of a flatcake growing shrooms all over its top. What determines this?

By Patrick (Valence) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 01:42 am:

Eatualive and I are actually working on this right now. Undetermined as of yet. Check out Sliced Cake. Those are Hawaiians.
Still working with some other strains. I am not exactly sure what Eatubualive is specifically working with but maybe he will jump in here to specify.

ps. Eat, kick ass gift...........

By Eatyualive (Eatyualive) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 03:37 am:

your welcome pat. hope iradiation didn't kick its ass. ok, here are my conclusions with strains. i have found that hawaiians like growing off of the sides of the cakes. i have found this true for every single flat cake that i have done for this strain. now pf classic grows from all directions. and my tex strain seems to like either. a major cause of side or undergrowth is the extra moisture. i am testing this right now. with my new terrarium i have amazing results with the humidity or moisture underneath the cakes. for some reason the air speed is a little high and slows growth down and kinda dries them out. but the mushies grow similar to the natural state this way. they look like mushies picked off a cowpie. and if you look at some of my recent tex pics the stems curl toward the cake at the bottom. the treasure coast grow from the cake and from verm. it is good to use a toplayer of verm for the tc's. the maz also like the casing. so, certain strains have certain characteristics. i would suggest to ask the spore vendor or supplier what substrates, methods, depths, temps and ect. that they use. if the success is good why not follow the methods of the one who provided the spores. i am doing experiments as we speak on the adaptations of mushroom strains. we will see what happens. it is mostly for personal benefit but when i make a conclusion i will share with everyone.

By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 03:04 am:

As I understand it, the flat cake is made of crumbled PF cakes "fused" into a single large, flat cake, and the Wafer Cake is a PF cake sliced up into thins slices and laid flat. Do these two teks yield the same results? I have read that the wafer tek results in a faster recovery time for the mycelium after slicing than the flat cake has after crumbling. Does a flat cake have anything on a wafer cake? Maybe it's easier to dunk a flat cake? Thanks!

[Nan: Flat Beds]

By Eatyualive (Eatyualive) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 03:24 am:

the wafer tek is used for casings and the flat cake is for cakes. the flat cake would be easier to dunk as opposed to the wafer cake. i have had good results using wafer tek but nothing like hawks size mushies. also, most of the wafer tek trays that i have done have contamed. but that is my personal experience. also, it seems that the areas where you fill in the gaps that the wafers do not cover seem to have a weaker 'fusion'. i have had many fall apart or break apart when i try for 2nd flushes.

By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 04:03 am:

Cool, thanks. That's what I imagined.

By Eatyualive (Eatyualive) on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 04:04 am:

ok, i finally figured out how to get those puertos pinning and fruiting. i followed the same steps as the flat cake tek. the only difference is this:
1. i added a damp, thin 1/8" layer of verm on bottom of the caserole before i crumbled the mycelia. then just followed the rest of the tek.

I thought of this bc the puerto doesn't do extremely well on cakes. it seems to want a casing layer. so i allowed the cake to grow through. then i just birtheed the whole cake including the bottom verm layer.
once birthed and flipped. i then took a fork and lightly scratched the surface of the verm.

here are my first pins using the puertos on double ended flatcakes. i would imagine that this will work for other casing lover strains such as tc and mazatec. if you can't get the puertos to fruit using cakes or casings just do this tek. on all of the casings that i used whether it was 50/50 tek, coir, or verm the pins aborted. also the substrates varried from rye berry to brf. this is the first foolproof method i have found.
here are the pics.1
2
3