|Is drilling holes a good way to get contams?||15||12/12 06:40pm||jared|
|By Municipal Jones (Phishgrower) on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 05:16 am: The Nook|
Ok, this resevoir tek sounds really cool, but I'm a little confused. when you first make the substrate do you fill the hole all the way with dry verm? Also, when you birth the cake, do you just estimate where the hole is and inject water though the (approximate) middle? again, i really appreciate all the help on this board. i'm waiting for my pressure cooker to arrive and then getting things started. if i'm successful this time i will owe it all to you who have helped me. thanks.
also, does anyone else find the age group here interesting? not to downplay anybody but i never pictured anyone growing shroomies in a dorm room or needing their mom to give them a ride to pick up mushy supplies. but hey, more power to them. they're ahead of the game here.
|By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 06:03 am: The Nook|
I was wondering about the reserve tek to won't the vermiculite in the middle of the cake dry the substrate out??????? I gusse once it's 100% colinized u could add water but while its growing mycelium?? just a thought
|By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 06:20 am: The Nook|
The mycelium shouldn't colonize the area with plain verm all the way because there is no food in it(or water for that matter). It should be fairly obvious where to inject the water.
Hey Liberty caps... don't you think P.F. knows what's up?
Trust me... it works just fine
|By Snorgleborf (Snorgleborf) on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 11:40 am: The Nook|
I think it's pretty obvious where to inject water.
Make sure the water is sterilized, as well as the syringe, before injecting.
|By Snorgleborf (Snorgleborf) on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 11:45 am: The Nook|
|By Snorgleborf (Snorgleborf) on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 11:54 am: The Nook|
BTW, Here is a 7th flush EQ cake. No not a typo, 7th flush, no shit. Notice how nice and white and fresh looking the mycelium still is. Oh yeah, I add Dextrose to the water each time I water the cakes. Inner Reservoir kicks ass1
|By Waverider (Waverider) on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 08:50 pm: The Nook|
Is there a way to add an inner reservoir post-birth?
|By Brad (Raze) on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 09:06 pm: The Nook|
You could drill a huge hold and do it... but if its already birthed then just dunk it between flushes and do it with the reservoir the next time.
|By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 09:31 pm: The Nook|
hey Snorgleborf when u say dextrose that's like suger right?? like honey,,? so when I make my reserver cakes can I mix a drop of honey for 2 syringes and inject that water would that be good/ok,, or where can I buy dextrose? thanx
pd.dam 7th flush thats really good how long have u had thoes cakes?
|By Snorgleborf (Snorgleborf) on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 04:31 pm: The Nook|
Exactly Liberty_Caps. You can find it on the web, just do a search for Dextrose. I got some from a "make your own sausage" site. You should probably be able to find it locally in health food store maybe. Honey should work also. The most critical things though, seems to be using sterilized water. Otherwise the cakes rot from the inside out. That particular cake was birthed on July 24th. and is pretty much played out now.
|By Brad (Raze) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 03:32 am: The Nook|
Just wondering, what is that cake sitting on, dont look like no perlite to me
|By Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 03:41 am: The Nook|
thats vermiculite brad
|By SneyoS (Soyens) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 05:25 am: The Nook|
Just wondering how much water you inject when you hydrate those beautiful cakes.
|By Brettiejams (Brettiejams) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 07:14 am: The Nook|
Hey snorgleborf... if you get an eighth flush out of those pups I suspect you might want to call Guinesses(sp?).
Please post your ratio of dextrose to water for your injections.
And thank you for sharing with the rest of us!
|By Snorgleborf (Snorgleborf) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 01:18 pm: The Nook|
2 grams Dextrose to 500 ml water. I'm also playing with using potato water to add some starch. That cake seems to be pretty much played out now as it hasn't initiated any new pins in a week and a half now. I've gotten 3 and 4 flushes out of a cake before without adding anything to the water, so it would seem that the mycelium is able to use at least some of the available nutrients supplied. Then again, it could be that this cake is just a freak of nature. lol Anyway, I'm sure others have done as well, if not better. Actually nothing surprised me with the cubies after 23 years of playing with them.
As to how much water. I inject 5 t 10 cc at birth. After, I give the cakes as much as they will take. I inject until a "bubble" of water forms on top of the verm. If it soaks into the verm very rapidly, I'll inject some more until another "bubble" forms and soaks down. I do this every other day. The amount going into each cake is anywhere from 2 to 15 cc's depending on the state of the cake. It seems the more pins on the cake the more water the cake will take. Again sterility for the water and the syringe is key! BTW that last flush wound up being 5.5 grams "cracker" dry. Total yield from the cake was 43.7 grams dry. The initial flushes were lots of smaller shrooms and as each flush went along the number of shrooms got less, but the size of each shroom was larger.
The cake is sitting on a 1/2 inch of verm with a 1 inch base of sterilized potting soil. Seems to work better for me than verm alone. Verm alone seems to get to "mushy". The whole thing sits on a small heating pad set on low for 12 hours a day. Temps range from 74°F to 81°F. The whole thing is hydrate with a 50/50 mix of Hydrogen Peroxide and water. Generates plenty of humidity.
|By not a chance (Greywolf) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 06:03 pm: The Nook|
Dextrose is readily availble at any farm and feed store. So are syringes in various sizes And usually the people behind the counter don't ask questions.
|By Fishy1 (Fishy1) on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 08:55 pm: The Nook|
I just used a section of aluminum tubing (3/4") to cut the resevoir in a couple of cakes. I filed the tubing to a sharp edge to cut better. Just took off the lid of the jar, removed the vermic barrier, and jabbed/ twisted the sterile tube to the bottom of the jars. Like butter...and the "plug" that is removed is now stuck in the tubing, and can be pushed out.(the plug might be able to be used for something....). The jar is then birthed onto a vermic layer, the hole filled with vermic, and then cased on top, too.
I will let ya know if it is working well, as you can see by the crappy pic, they were pinning/fruiting invitro.
|By SYDYSTYK (Addict) on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 09:10 pm: The Nook|
3/4 diameter? are you sure thats pretty large, anyway best of luck
|By Fishy1 (Fishy1) on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 09:52 pm: The Nook|
Yep, I can almost fit my thumb in it.
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 10:08 am: The Nook|
Hey Fishy, are those the plastic lids I have seen in the store by the jars? If so, how well do they work out? Is sterilization done in the microwave, or can it be? If so, do you know how long? Thanks.
|By Fishy1 (Fishy1) on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 02:24 pm: The Nook|
They ARE the plastic lids. I use a pressure cooker, and they do fine in that. I have not tried a microwave yet. I will try to find the time to try one in the microwave to see if it works...I used the Large chunky vermiculite, and VERY LOOSELY packed the jars.
As of this morning, not even 24 hrs after the picture, the pins on them are growing well.
If the microwave works, I will let ya know...
|By whoever (Livedangerous) on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 07:28 pm: The Nook|
whats this i hear, using a microwave? can you nuke the jars instead of steaming and sterilize them just as well without drying the substrate? mic for how long, add extra water to substrate, tight or loose lid? or am i way off on the use of a microwave?
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 11:16 pm: The Nook|
there's no reason the microwave can't work. However, microwaving tends to dry things out, but how much moisture is escaping it anybody's guess, and you'd have to figure a way to guage the loss in order to compensate for it.
When steaming I leave the lids on tight. When you steam or boil a jar (in canning) the rubber seals up, and the heat exchange causes a vaccuum. PF recommends contractor-grade masking tape on the innoculation holes, and I find that the tape breathes, releasing the vaccuum.
If you microwave, steam will build up causing pressure, and might melt/damage plastic lids, but if you do the tape thing, it should act as a release valve. I tried this in an oddball rye berry experiment that failed; I was using a half-gallon jar, and I'm not sure why it failed, but it did. Maybe it was that I didn't cook it long enough.
My advice is: try it and see if it works for you, while you also have a proven tek going alongside it.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Saturday, October 20, 2001 - 12:36 am: The Nook|
Ya, I second. Feel free to experiment, but I would suggest a few things. 1) Make sure your Tek is down before you experiment with modifications.
The Tek as we lay it down is proven and will work, experiments by and large fall into the 99% perspiration category. 2) What Lichen says, run your proven Tek and perform small experiments on the side.
Just trying to save heartache out there. Get the Tek down first and then figure where you want to cut corners.
|By saluras (Saluras) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 01:15 am: The Nook|
it's been awhile. i wanted to say that after doing this tek, i've increased yeilds by 2. it's still the first flush of 50 cakes, but damn i must admit that this tek seems to produce more. i guess i'll find out about contams with this tek as it progresses but so far i'm very happy.
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 07:56 am: The Nook|
Has anyone tried to put an inner resevoir, or mulitiple ones, in a flat cake? If so what was the spacing and how did it work out?
|By SYDYSTYK (Addict) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 08:05 am: The Nook|
ahhh your thinking along the same lines as me--- im going to put some cakes in a tray (probably 5) and insert straws in them, fill in the rest with crumbled cakes, then case and water the straws daily, i will post pics if they are worth taking
|By greenthumb (Greenthumb) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 11:22 am: The Nook|
The thought of having a little well hole, or a mini-pond on, or in a cake sounds like it invites contams. If my friend tries the inner-res tek again he was thinking about making ABSOLUTELY sure that any holes in his cakes went all the way through. It would drain any standing water leaving a pocket of wet verm in the middle.
Is my friend overcautious? Will the Myc just love him more if he leaves the well holes full?
If that much standing water is no big deal why not use hydroponic plant growing set up?
Any thoughts please- Thanks
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 08:35 am: The Nook|
Actually, the idea behind the inner reservoir (from what I gather) is not to have standing water touching the cake but rather to have the water soaked up into vermiculite and then soaked from that into the mycellium.
|By greenthumb (Greenthumb) on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 11:31 am: The Nook|
I didn't see how you could make sure you weren't filling too much or where water would go if you did. I had a picture in my mind of a straw or hole full of water. Without a drain leading to a lower verm level you might have water just sitting in the hole waiting to be absorbed by the verm or the myc.
Does the straw lead the water to the verm down in the hole like a funnel?
Straws seem like alot of work when you can just use a needle to inject water into a pre-made hole.
I guess the hole in the IR tek is for moist verm not standing water.
|By Om Mani Padme Hum (Crow13) on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 06:09 pm: The Nook|
I'll take a syringe full of water and just inject my cakes with water from time to time between dunks. A couple of shots of water inside the cake near a clump of shrooms really helps out where other wise the cake would dry out very fast where it's very habitated. (is that a word?)
|By Fanaticus (Fanaticus) on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 06:32 pm: The Nook|
Just a note - I tried the PF race with this tek and it did not work worth a damn.
The PF double ended cake casing tek works much better for the PF race. I did get a great Hawaiian result with it though, but I am not that impressed with it now because the PF shrooms didn't do squat with it! But then, that is just me, maybe somebody can get it to work great with the PF race.
The whole issue with the PF TEK is balance of the water to the substrate to the needs of the shroom.
|By drylander (Romelur) on Sunday, November 11, 2001 - 05:47 am: The Nook|
I was wondering about inner rice resorvoirs myself... anyone with thoughts? like, put 1 verm res in the middle, and put 3 filled with loose cooked brown rice...
|By greenthumb (Greenthumb) on Sunday, November 11, 2001 - 01:17 pm: The Nook|
I've read several posts here about 100% whole rice PF cakes falling to contams quickly if they are not cased. By comparison, the inner res full of rice would be surrounded and protected by the PF verm/BRF cake and might not contam as easily as a whole rice cake. You might be able to put a layer of whole rice in your jars when your loading PF substrate.
It might be just as "fruitfull" to leave your BRF a little chunkier in your standard PF cake.
I think it's a cool idea. I would try it if I were you. I would take good notes and post my results.
I'm thinking some of the more experienced growers around here have tried this, or heard about it.
|By yagshroom (Yagshroom) on Sunday, November 11, 2001 - 07:59 pm: The Nook|
I second what you have found on the PF race mushrooms on inner resivoir cakes... they have really grown shitty. The hawaii's, on the other hand, have produced several massive flushes, and seem to just keep on trucking compared to just a double ended casing. Part of what I have found on the PF's is that you get areas that are too dry and too wet with just the inner resivoir, so there has been massive aborts, and mushy fat asses on the same cake. I have seen several people post about using double ended casing and inner resivoir at the same time, but don't recall if that was tried with the PF's or not. I assume it would do quite well with hawaii from what I have seen.
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Sunday, November 11, 2001 - 08:37 pm: The Nook|
Drylander, it seems to me that a rice reservoir would just colonize and join the rest of the cake. So it wouldn't be much different than no reservoir. Actually, uncolonized rice will most likely become contaminated.
|By drylander (Romelur) on Sunday, November 11, 2001 - 10:36 pm: The Nook|
duh, the point is that the rice would become colonized! more food=more fruit! since there are contam problems with just 100% rice cakes, having resavoirs of just rice would provide a bit more food than normal, and a regular verm res would allow for the water
|By Nugdumper (Nugdumper) on Sunday, November 11, 2001 - 10:47 pm: The Nook|
I have tried the inner resevoir with both PF and a shitty strain of B+ I got from the shroomery. The PF actually did well, giving me a first flush of 15g dry off 5 cakes. It seemed to take all their energy out of them though and the cakes contamed soon after. The B+ however, also 5 inner res cakes, lasted 7 flush's! By the end of their life they weren't putting out much, but still not contamed. I probably got a total 45 or 50g dry off the whole affair. I left for a weekend, came back, and found one of the cakes had been eaten... with green mold. It was nasty, I've never seen such a scary looking cake.
-All in all, the IR tek is a winner, EASSSSY way to increase yeild.