|Crazy pinning, but were are the shrooms?||21||01/12 04:13am||Kman|
|By mangoat (Grom) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 04:38 am:|
Good photo of dried aborts
|By Hudsonismss (Hudsonismss) on Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 11:24 am:|
how do you ident abhorts? i only ask cause i've had a massive first flush and have not noticed any, that is if there are any i havn't noticed em- or maybe there just arent any. (its B+ by the way). i figure they just start turning dark after they stop growing...but none have. i only ask cause i thought it was pretty standard to have some
|By Ashenms (Ashenms) on Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 11:43 am:|
b+ hardly has aborts
|By Saluras (Saluras) on Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 10:43 pm:|
PF abhort alot. B+ hardly ever. identification is:
stalled growth, bluing of the entire shroom and it doesn't grow, dark caps that are small and haven't opened, plus many more signs.
if you just watch your cakes through all flushes you'll probably soon see abhorts and be able to identify them quickly. i have had B+ abhorts, but its usually do to humidty (too much/too little) or heat extremes
|By Saney (Saney) on Friday, September 14, 2001 - 12:20 am:|
PF abort quadrouple the amount that don't Little things are fiesty though. gotta love em.
|By saluras (Saluras) on Friday, September 14, 2001 - 01:09 am:|
right on saney, i've got 2oz of dried PF abhorts. they are my prize.
i didn't want to say it, but with PF it's like 70% abhort. the interesting thing though is that the ones that do grow almost equal B+ in quantity. it's just that with PF you get to see so many abhorts.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Sunday, October 14, 2001 - 12:03 am:|
The PF Classic benefits from a little boost sometimes to get the Classic Fatass. Try this:
1) Increase the amount of Water you are using when you mix your Substrate. The PF Classic strain is a thirsty sponge. Mix the substrate up to the point where you can actually get water to bead in your fist when a handful of substrate is squeezed tightly. If you squeeze and water dribbles from your hand it is too wet. Be sure to load the substrate loosely into the jar. When the Cake is Birthed : Dunk a minimum of 12 hours.
If the first flush pins up and aborts (see Chronic007 pics below) get the pins off as soon as possible, then proceed with the following:
2) Clean the cake thoroughly under a running faucet, then scratch the cake surface with a sterile fork. You want to cut into the "skin" of the cake with the tines and rough it up pretty good.
3) Dunk the cake and increase your dunk time: min 12 hours on freshly birthed cakes, but go up to 24 hours on cakes that aborted the first flush. Dunk them in the fridge.
4) Double-end case and make sure the casing is saturated. Keep your humidity very, very high. Fan 3-4 times a day.
If that fails...
5) Try mixing one level tablespoon of Soy Flour or other Additive to the substrate in each jar for the next batch. This boosts the nitrogen level up a notch and sometimes helps fruiting. The jars will colonize slower by a day or three, so be sure the substrate is loosely packed when you use additives. If you add one tablespoon (no more) of additive be sure you are adding enough water.
Something here, a combination of several, or all together... It will help. If it is still not satisfactory... The PF Hawaiian rarely aborts... Switch strains.
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 03:43 am:|
This is a problem I have always had. Using the PF tek, after full colonization, I always get a cake covered with primordia. But, on the first flush, very few of them grow any bigger and I am left with a bunch of small ones, aborts PF calls them. The following flushes have less of these, fortunatly. Can anyone tell me what causes me to get so many small ones and few big ones on my first flush. This applies to the quote tek and the terrarium tek.
|By Saney (Saney) on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 04:48 am:|
PF classic abhorts. Use a different strain.. Hawaiians are nice. Peace.
|By SneyoS (Soyens) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 07:01 pm:|
heres what my albino looked like a couple days ago
heres what it looks like now
does anyone know what could have caused this or if it is normal?
|By Nanook of the North (Nanook) on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 02:40 am:|
It simply aborted. They will do that sometimes. Pick the shroom, it has ceased growing. Pluck off the black head (it is rotting), the rest of the shroom will still be good.
|By Chronic007 (Chronic007) on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 07:32 pm:|
I prepared 50 jars for inoculation via the PF tek using the max fruiting formula. All were sterilized via pressure cooker and then were inoculated with the PF classic strain. All 50 jars were fully colonized by two weeks (none lost to contams) and begging to pin. All 50 jars were then dunked for 12 hours (fully submerged) , then patted dry with paper towels and placed in quart jars with lids facing down. Lids were transferred from ½ pint wide mouth jars over to the quart jars with each having four 1/16 in diameter holes (just big enough for inoculation needles) The jars pinned furiously (100-150 pins per cakes) but none grew longer than 2/8 – 3/8 of an inch before halting and begging to blacken. The cakes were scrapped for a dry yield of 32g from 50 cakes. Not acceptable! But this being my first time; wasn’t really sure what to expect from the first flush (read many things about 1st flush being smaller and abnormal compared to the rest of the flushes) So I dunked again after scraping cakes and this time cakes were not fully submerged but floating for 12 hours since I had nothing to hold them under in the quart jars. Cakes were dried and placed back in quart jars. After seven days, and to my dismay, the same results. Tiny primordial covering the cakes with only one cake out of fifty producing a mature specimen of 3 inches.
This time I realized that something needed to change. The total dry weight of second flush was 26.2 grams from fifty cakes…..even less acceptable! But still learning
Now I decided to change a few things. Cakes were fully submerged for six hours, holes on lids were widened to 1/8 in diameter, cakes were placed on 2” tall pvc pipe risers to keep away from pooling water, Quart jars were placed right side up. Reason for these changes: Maybe there was to much humidity or not enough air circulation so holes were widened and jars placed right side up.
Next flush seemed to be improving greatly. For first five days pins formed in groups and there were only 5-10 pins per cake but all pins seemed to be headed to full maturation. But growth slowed and heads began to blacken. The average height was anywhere from 1-2 inches; but you can tell by the pic they should be bigger before heads turn black.
|By Chronic007 (Chronic007) on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 05:10 am:|
Here are the harvested pics of the last flush that I was talking about above.
As you can see for fifty cakes the yeild is not acceptable....there are only a handful of medium size but still premature shrooms and the rest are thousands of tiny tiny primordia. The second pic with the pen and the biggest shroom shows exactly how small the tiny primordia are. Any suggestions after reading the above material? I think I'm going to try a 12 hour dunk with the jar lids facing down but on risers so the holes aren't flush with the shelf trapping air in
|By Dr. Cubesis III (Newbieshroomer) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 07:42 pm:|
I am still confused on the abort issue.....
I can't remember the exact strain, but I think it is tapalpas....
And I can't remember captain max's url to find the strain or
the correct name. I have over 2 dozen pins on a single 1/2
pint cake, ( my first pins ever ) not sure if this particular strain fruits big, and I should clear the tiny ones, or if it fruits small and plentiful.
many of the pins are now over an inch long and more coming in every hour it seems. They have VERY fat bottoms and reddish brown heads.
Nothing looks like an abort yet,,, Will I know aborts when I see them??
Should I clear out a bunch of the smaller pins???
Everything looks damn healthy and pinning has been going on for a few days.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 10:42 pm:|
you should not thin your mushrooms. It doesn't work that way; the ones you leave after thinning will not benefit from it, like a green plant. It's a different concept: Plants growing in soil need room for their roots to grow where they will without any competition from other plants. On the other hand, the cake or bed of mycelium _is_ the 'root structure', and already contains whatever nutrients and water it's gonna get. So the mycelium is fruiting according to that, and thinning will only diminish your harvest.
Pins that abort can be easily recognized because they stop growing and begin to darken, and the heads eventually turn black
|By Kevin Smith (Canshroom) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 08:46 pm:|
I have two strains going right now Matias Romero and B+. On quite a few of the cakes I have small growths, .25-.5 inch long, which have thicker stems and small brown heads. Are these necessarily abhorts? I'm watching them to see if they grow so I know what to do with them. Ordinarily, I'd assume that they were abhorts, but all of the growth I have right now looks like that, which makes me wonder. I just birthed 3 days ago, if that helps at all. If they are abhorts. what do normal early stage mushrooms look like? Does the early growth on a cake become abhorts more often? Any advise on what I should do would be appreciated.
|By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 08:51 pm:|
aborts are just shrooms that have stopped growing and are dying.
let them grow until you see the heads/caps turning black, then pick asap.
here's a pic of typical aborts, note the black heads.
|By Kevin Smith (Canshroom) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 09:06 pm:|
Thanks. So brown is not necessarily black? Could a mushroom with a brown head and bloated stem still grow to become a normal shroom? I notice that one shroom I do have is now about 1.25 inches long with a brownish head, but the head is in proportion to the stem, so it seems healthy. Should the heads of normal small mushrooms be white or brown? And finally, if the heads turn black, I can still cut off the head and it will be good, correct? Thanks.
|By Nan (Nanook) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 09:49 pm:|
The PF "Fatass" looks like a bloated bowling pin.
The two ways to identify aborted fatasses is when they stop growing in comparison to other shrooms on the cake... And when the heads turn gray, blue hued, or black. You see both together it's an abort, pluck it right away.
If you don't catch it before the head turns black simply pluck the head off, the rest of the abort is still good usually. If it's black and mushy, flush it.
|By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 10:02 pm:|
brown is what you want to see.
|By Kevin Smith (Canshroom) on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 03:41 am:|
Fantastic. Thanks, quote. All of my cakes that show growth look exactly like the pic you posted. I'll keep my eye open for color changes and halted growth. Hopefully the aborts will be easy to spot when they happen. By the way, what accounts for where they start growing? Some of mine are growing from the bottom, some from the sides, some from the top. Is it just chance?
|By kobayashi (Impalerzz) on Friday, January 04, 2002 - 07:41 pm:|
I've got this little nubby that I thought was gonna abhort on me..A week ago. It hasn't blackened it head yet, and actually looks really healthy..Its just not going anywhere.
Temp is 70f/ humidity is around 80. These are actually re-casings that have flushed 4 times and then got recased, pinned very nicely and has produced around 8g dry in the last couple weeks.
The myc looks very healthy and has tons of visible pins.
Any idea if this is just slow to abhort?? I mean a week?
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Friday, January 04, 2002 - 10:40 pm:|
If it hasn't grown in a week you should pick it. Some aborts take a while to turn black.
|Posted by: omni515 Dec 28 02, 04:43 PM GMT|
|How long should i wait until i consider the mushroom an abort. This is my first time and i have so many mushrooms popping up im not sure which ones will grow and which ones are aborts. There are just clumps of shrooms popping up the lenth of half the cake.|
|Posted by: DirtyWOP Dec 28 02, 04:47 PM GMT|
| Abhorts tend to spread their cap a little while still pins....when it looks like a dickhead, it's safe to say it's an abhort. They also tend to turn blue without being touched.
You will know which ones are abhorts after the healthy mushrooms grow out, and the others are left behind. Then it is time to tweeze them.
|Posted by: Nanook Dec 28 02, 04:48 PM GMT|
| Let them all be until you can figure them out.
Aborts stop growing... Your other shrooms will continue to mature, if you used time lapse photography you would see shrooms growing while aborts just sit there... You could easly tell by comparing frames which shrooms are aborts.
The heads on aborts eventually turn black and they start to rot. That's when you know for sure.
|Posted by: omni515 Dec 28 02, 04:49 PM GMT|
|How big will aborts get?|
|Posted by: wildflowergirl Dec 28 02, 04:49 PM GMT|
|For me, when there are alot of pins poppin up, chances are, about 1/2 will abhort. You will notice the other ones around them will grow larger, into shrooms. The abhorts will have been around the same amount of time, but stop growing. These are abhorts. If the caps start turning a dark color, pickem before they rot. Also, many get a pointy cap, and never look like they will break a veil. Hope that helps.|
|Posted by: Nanook Dec 28 02, 04:51 PM GMT|
|As big as it wants, or you let it. Most big pins go on to maturity, generally speaking aborts are the weak runts, tho excessive aborting can mean it's too dry.|
|Posted by: omni515 Dec 28 02, 04:55 PM GMT|
|Right now i cant seem to get myRH above 90% is this acceptable im growing Ecuadors ?|
|Posted by: Nanook Dec 28 02, 05:04 PM GMT|
Your instrument is lying to you I bet
|Posted by: DirtyWOP Dec 28 02, 05:06 PM GMT|
| Forget that....just keep misting. Those hydrometers are crap. As long as all the walls are beaded up you can just give a fine mist every other fanning to keep the rH optimum. If misting isn't enough, do the perlite thing......
|Posted by: omni515 Dec 28 02, 05:10 PM GMT|
|Oh i forgot to mention im using perlite . i read some where you could tell if your rh was high or low if mycelim was growing on the mushroom. does anyone know how that goes?|
|Posted by: Nanook Dec 28 02, 07:50 PM GMT|
|Fuz can happen, may not happen... Too many variables to say for sure. If you are using perlite, and your walls are misted and kept wet, your humidity is fine.|
|Posted by: omni515 Dec 29 02, 01:04 PM GMT|