|Confused About Harvesting||-|
|PF Biological Efficiency Report||1||
|What I Got||8||benofnazareth|
|Determination of size..||5||kobayashi|
|About how many Grams||10||Nick Nick|
|By Kevin Smith (Canshroom) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 06:59 pm:|
I'm wondering what the expected yield would be using the PF tek assuming that all 10-12 jars were colonized with no contaminants. Best case scenario, so to speak. Dry grams please
|By Vitticeps (Admin) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:19 pm:|
I'd say 15-30g dry per flush. Varies quite a bit.
|By Saluras (Saluras) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 08:09 pm:|
right varies a bunch. I get a quarter p dry every week from about 70 cakes.
|By Karna (Karna) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 09:50 pm:|
that is quite low. My best first flush yielded a q pound dry from 8 or 9 pints worth (16-18 1/2 pint jars). So theoretically you could boost your yield four fold. Of course that depends on what you do. Maybe the jars are at different fruiting stages.
I would say good scenario is anything in the region of about 5-7gms dry per 1/2 pint cake
|By Saluras (Saluras) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 10:00 pm:|
exactly karna, they are at different ages. thats what sucks about cakes, i'm constantly dunking a load.
i will return to straw at some point, just not now.
thanks for the info karna
|By Saney (Saney) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 10:05 pm:|
Don't get your hopes up. My first attempt I used PF classics and out of 7 jars I started, all 7 fruited and I got a whopping.. 8 grams!! Yeh.. well that's why god made casings. Peace.
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 11:24 pm:|
three to five grams per cake per flush is my experience...but some cakes are slow or don't produce much, and with some you'll be lucky to get two grams.
|By greenthumb (Greenthumb) on Saturday, October 13, 2001 - 02:04 am:|
If my buddy manages to birth his PF tek 1/2 pints into his perlite chamber and uses double ended case tek. Say he also manages not to F it up. Won't he end up with a whole lotta shrooms? What does a cake like that average in dry grams per flush? If you have a guess please make it conservative. Is 2g. dry per cake per flush avg.??? This dude is growing Maz., Haw., and PF classic. If that makes a diff.?
This guy wants to have a massive stash for himself and close associates. Thanks for help.
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Saturday, October 13, 2001 - 02:37 am:|
3-5g dry per cake per flush
|By greenthumb (Greenthumb) on Saturday, October 13, 2001 - 11:37 am:|
Thanks Lichen, Thats a hell of a stash!
|By Black Star (Mr_Bug) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:34 pm:|
I think that may be a bit optimistic, Lichen! I'm sure you get those results, but I never have. I doubt a newbie would!
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:50 pm:|
it's just straight pf maximum fruiting formula, mixed 1 part water, 1 part rice, 2 parts vermiculite. I get this kind of flush with most of my cakes, with every race I've ever tried, except for False Mexicana, which is a mighty small shroom, and B+, which usually makes only one or two shrooms, sometimes sort of smaller than I expected.
|By Black Star (Mr_Bug) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 06:35 pm:|
Maybe I haven't gotten these kinds of flushes because I've never dunked before...
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 10:16 pm:|
I don't know...are you using the maximum fruiting formula? I call it pfmax for short. When I first tried this out I used both organic and non-organic rice, both short- and long-grain, and both normal and max fruiting formula ala pftek. Instead of 1/8 cup rice you use 1/4 cup per jar. And I don't dunk until after the first flush.
(Organic rice works much better than non-organic, too. I had a batch of cakes that produced very little because it was not organic)
|By Nan (Nanook) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 12:47 am:|
Lichen is right. If you follow the Teks like he does you get 3-5 g per cake. Lichen you clean your cakes, dunk, and re-case to get those yeilds don't you? Pretty much the standard Nook Teks for PF cakes?
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 04:22 am:|
yes, the standard except Fanaticus never said anything in his instructions about dunking. A few months ago I decided that it's not nessesary to dunk before the first flush. I noticed that fresh out of the jar they seem to flush better than if I dunk first. I'm getting to where I only flush the cakes once, then they automatically go into a straw bed or some other.
Get this, Nanook. I have a friend, whom I have mentioned here in the past, who gave me his tek. He used chicken scratch beds, grew his innoculum in jars of rye. The interesting part is that he lathered a fungicide of some kind all over the trays to keep the contams from growing. He was fantastically successful until he got busted. Ever hear of that kind of operation?
|By Nan (Nanook) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 02:20 pm:|
No Lichen, I havn't. I am not sure I would want to eat shrooms lathered in fungicide.
Simple Cubie Tek : Double-End Casing Tek : Grow Chambers
|By george jeremy (Mofo187) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 12:10 am:|
hey, i'm a first time grower with a couple questions for you experienced folk.....
a)with 16 half-pint jars i got around 1 oz dried of great mushies. is this the normal amount? i used the PF TEK guide, with their brand of spores.
b)they sprang up immediately, i harvested like crazy for around a week, then all the cakes just produced aborts. i didn't have the "flushes" that i've read about.
c)my humidity and temp are good, but how can i get more from my cakes? my substrate has been packed pretty loose, should i pack it? are my cakes just lazy??
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 12:21 am:|
a)if you're saying you got an ounce from one Harvest, it's cool, could be a bit better
b)a 'Flush' is the period when the cakes are fruiting
c)loosly packed Substrate is good. What sort of Casing are you using?
|By Patrick (Valence) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 01:29 am:|
28 grams (see I remember ) from 16 cakes. Only 1.75 grams Averaged for a first flush. Thats pretty low unless you lost a few to contam but since you didn't mention it, I don't think that you did. Did you Case it? So what point are your cakes at now. Just sitting there after the first flush. I would sugest Dunking them and then Caseing Them.
|By george jeremy (Mofo187) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 05:31 am:|
I don't think i've done any casing as you say, that link is the first i've heard of it. My substrate was just the regular brown rice/vermiculite deal. shouldn't this be enough? or does casing really help a ton? i haven't tried dunking though, i'll definitely give that a try. thanks for the info....
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 07:58 am:|
An ounce isn't bad at all for your first try. Congratulations! The Pf race aborts a lot and it doesn't grow as defined flushes as other races, it seems to grow the shrooms more randomly. Other races have more uniform growth, try Hawaiians. As everyone else will tell you, dunk and case and wait for more.
|By ggg (Ggg) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 10:01 am:|
double ended casing
|By An guy (Boomer) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 01:12 am:|
Nan, Quote, Karna, Lichen, Patrick, et al..
Can you help me out here?
I dont' know what race I'm growing, but for the sake of argument, say it's PF. I have reason to believe it's that or Hawaiian- scrapings were from a commercial bag of a friends, and around here commercial means from the Pacific Northwest or possibly up North- most likely, Pac NW...
Anyways, so can you do some figuring and give me a very average ball park figure on a typical yield from a straight pf type 1/2pt jar?
I know you can't tell for sure, who knows about my techniques and shit, right?
But I"m not stupid, my technique should get ok shortly, and I really need to know an average yield per jar- I will shave your figures on the low side.
Nope, not going commercial, but yep, could really, really use an answer ASAP.
Thanks flushes fellers/nonfellers
Just think. I will be my own fairy ring
|By quote: (Quote) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 01:17 am:|
3.5 to 4 dry grams per cake is pretty average .
good technique can get you around 6.
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 01:20 am:|
that's it...three to five grams is the standard...sometimes you can get 6-8g dry from one cake
|By An guy (Boomer) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 01:29 am:|
So then roundy roundy, 10 cakes= a rough high side oz?
Is this per flush, or over the life of the cake?
and thanks so much- it was actually vital to know as soon as I could.....life....
|By Patrick (Valence) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 02:20 am:|
I've gotten lower with PFC's before. I don't like them very much. But with Hawaiians growing right along side of them I've gotten almost eight. I think that 10 cakes = oz would be per flush. 20 grams in an ounce right. If so then, Ya per flush
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 02:45 am:|
ten cakes yield 30-50g dry per flush. An ounce is 28g. Most cakes, properly cared for, will go three flushes, and a weak fourth. In some cases you will see the cakes yield a lame third flush. Most cakes cannot go past four flushes before they start sweating. When you see this, your cake is done.
I always expect four grams per flush with my cakes, and some of them go to eight grams dry. Occasionally a cake will only go 3g, but it's rare. They're predictable.
|By An guy (Boomer) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 02:46 am:|
I thought 29g, (28.4) = 1oz?
So I was going off of 3g/cake, would be 10 cake/oz?
We're doing the same math, I'm just using a different conversion factor.
And I think you're right- it's per flush.
And with a decent tek-neek, then round it off to 3 flushes average, round up a cake's total output, at a minimum, ought to be around 10g.
I know it's more in most cases, but this is a good baseline to shoot for, would that be fair to say?
You guys rock too btw- thanks again for your answers and sorry I got all jumpy and didn't Look*In*Archives....heh...;)
Hey PJ- if you read this, here's me rootin for ya on the cutting- I got my back cut a couple times myself. Behind you all the way gal....
|By Patrick (Valence) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 04:24 am:|
My metric to standard conversion is for shit. I know. Thats why I asked
|By An guy (Boomer) on Saturday, November 17, 2001 - 04:38 am:|
Just go to the weight you *want* to know, punch in how many units, for instance, go to ounces, type in 1, then click anywhere on the page, all the other units will fill in- scroll back up till you see grams- it'll say 28 point whatever...
|By Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 07:17 pm:|
What about the the yield from a PF cake and time involved after birth until the cake in totally done?
|By quote: (Quote) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 08:12 pm:|
i can usually get 6-8 grams out of a single pf cake, and have the first fruit in right at one month after injecting spores.
the later flushes add another few more weeks. sometimes the yield is more, even alot more, depends on the roll of the genetic dice.
all in all, very fast, there's nothing faster i know of.
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 10:40 am:|
What's the deal with flipping the flat cake? I have done a few and I just leave them in the container they form in.
|By Ron (Clubbenguy) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 07:23 pm:|
Well, how important is Humidity??? Can u just throw them in any bin and leave it under your bed, am i wasting my time making a grow chamber??? I thought shrooms would not grow w/o at least 90-100% humidity???
|By quote: (Quote) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 09:10 pm:|
humidity is vital, otherwise everything dries out and dies.
|By ggg (Ggg) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 02:07 am:|
|By Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 03:50 pm:|
quote iv got 4 grams dry off first flush, 2nd flush the same thats 8, and there were 2 other flush's i know you can get more than 10. hawaiians.
|By quote: (Quote) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 03:58 pm:|
well, atkseb, old buddy, that may be true, but i'd prefer to talk about averages, not individual cakes.
that's really what i'm trying to get at,
what is average.
and that means you've got to factor in those cakes that didn't do very well with those that did.
that means you weigh to total output of say 24 cakes and then divide by 24 to see what they average.
the best cake might give 10-12 grams, but there's bound to be some that crapped out, giving shitty yields. it all counts towards the true average, even cakes that die prematurely.
i've got pf's, eq's, sa's, and ha's coming soon.
i'll weigh every gram from every cake in each batch on each flush.
and we'll see what we get.
|By Jim (Jim) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 04:17 pm:|
in my experience 6-10 grams dry is about what i averege.
|By quote: (Quote) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 04:52 pm:|
see, jim, that's my point.
you, and everyone else i know, are all getting figures in that range.
but lichen here says he averages 15-20 grams dry.
i feel there must be something wrong with such a dramatic discrepancy.
maybe i've been too brutal in my approach,
i suspect part of the problem might be in lichen's small sample of just a few cakes.
but it's just really hard to believe someone's averaging 15 dry grams per, because that means some must be getting more often enough to offset those that got less.
surely lichen has a few cakes that didn't perform well, those need to be included to get an 'average' yield.
|By greenthumb (Greenthumb) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 05:26 pm:|
The following are questions posted at the Shroomery by Fahque (that’s me) and responses to those questions. There is no way that this tiny sample can prove or disprove anything in the world of PF cake yields:
Q—“A raging debate, at some other site, about average dry yield can only be settled by the Shroomery. Looking for, strait BRF\verm, 1/2 pint, PF tek terrarium fruited, dry yield stats. average dry grams per flush, average # of flushes.
The debate is about average dry gram yield over the life of a PF cake with the PF tek.
One party says' that they consistantly get 15 - 20 dry grams in a 4 flush life cycle.
Others say NO WAY- TOO HIGH> I ask the pro's at the Shroomery.
Any help is greatly thanked!”
A—“im no pro but i can tell you there is no way in hell that anyone is getting 15-20 dry grams out of a damn pf cake..id believ 5-7 grams a cake is a little more realistic”
A—“Someone's full of it. I'll bet they get 100% colonization in 9 days too. 7 grams is a good yield from a 1/2 pint.”
A—“well, here is some info for your research. Its 1 half pint BRF / Verm cake although it was cased with plain verm ( not PF Tek) you can see from the results that by the third flush there was over 9 grams dried, there was one more flush from this casing which provided another 2.5 grams. So total dried weight comes to 11 grams from (1) 1/2 pint”.
--This is information posted on Fanaticus.com from Quote concerning yields of his mycro-tek. Once again this is only posted here to show an example of yield. Forgive me if yield info is a little hard to drum up. This is not the strait PF tek but these numbers are still examples of the yielding ability of PF cakes. This kind of info might not be so hard to get around here but there are all those toes to avoid stepping on.
--“In my test run, i did 24 jars, 12 gulf coast and 12 b+ - lost 1 to contamination early on, which left 23. Colonization was complete and pinning occuring at 28 days. Harvested, first flush yielded 2.4 ounces, dry. I'm now on the 4th flush, down to 16 surviving cakes, and my current yield before 4th flush is 4.0 dry grams per cake. From the looks of it, 4th flush will put the average well past 4.5 grams dry, per cake. The fruit, being essentially overgrown primordia, are quite potent. They also are fairly dry-ish and fibrous compared to shrooms grown under more normal circumstances, due to being somewhat compressed by growing invitro. Note: the cakes shrunk after 1st flush, leaving much more room for fruit to grow. 2nd and 3rd flushes came fast but fruiting seemed stalled afterwards so the cakes were re-hydrated by filling their jars, with the cakes in them, with water for 24 hours, then draining. A strong 4th flush began immediately thereafter.”
“harvested 4th flush, now drying. will post weight asap. it's a big one though, i can tell from looking. i'm very very pleased with the results of both invitro fruiting and dunking rehydration. lost a few more, down to just 14 jars. cakes seemed plenty moist, so no dunk this time. waiting for a 5th flush now.” “weighed 4th flush, now dry. 22.5 grams, that's as much as the 2nd and 3rd flushes, put together. brings the grand total to 115 dry grams from [originally] 24 jars, including all lost to contamination along the way. that's over a quarter pound dry from jars sitting on a shelf in a box!! that brings the overall average up to a little over 4.7 grams per cake. if one discounted the contam'd ones, the individual jars surviving have yielded nearly 6 grams each in a jar. pretty impressive come-back after dunking. and the 14 remaining cakes may yet flush again.”
Quote has a lot of experience, I don't-
Of the 36 PF cakes I’ve inoculated I have produced 16 dry g. So you can clearly see that I don’t have a clue. But the subject has been talked over around here before and I have on a number of occasions heard 3 – 5 dry grams per flush off PF cakes, max fruit, DEcased.
I AM NOT CHOOSING TO ENDORSE ONE PARTICULAR VIEW!
IT IS ONLY THROUGH THE SPREADING OF KNOWLEDGE THAT WE CAN FORM OPINIONS.
I know it may be tough but would others like to CHIME IN!!
NOT WITH FLAMES but with reports on your average yields from PF cakes.
Thanks to Quo and Lichen for the interesting threads.
Quo- hows about that E-mail request?
|By Lizard (Lizard) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 05:37 pm:|
I get around 2 ounces dried from 8 cakes that are cased. This is total yield from start to finish. This counts a usual 3 flushes I get before I get tired and move to a new batch. I have weighed my last several runs and always 1.75 to 2 ounces with B+ and Ecuadors.
Does that sound pretty good? I have been doing this since 1991. I was just curious with your experience if I am on target.
Also, if you could recommend something that PF has since they dropped Ecuadors that would be similar to what I am use to. The maz's sound good, PF says its the best they tried. Im a caser, always will be. Any advice much appreciated.
|By quote: (Quote) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 05:47 pm:|
yes, lizard, that sounds pretty much dead-on, about a 7 gram per cake figure averaged out over several batches and years.
that's about what i get, and nearly everyone else i know, too.
i haven't tried pf's maz yet, so i can't comment there. the hawaiians are pretty good too.
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 06:52 am:|
My average on 12 Pf cakes (double case, dunk, perlite) has risen steadily and finally leveled out around 3 ounces, or 7 grams each. That is what I have come to expect and is usually comes out correct. Of course, sometimes I lose a cake and that gets factored in, not as one cake producing nothing but as though I only started with 11 cakes. Lately, however, I have been experimenting with different variables. This has almost always resulted in smaller yeilds. Any bigger flushes that occur are almost always countered by a lot of early contamination. This usually happens due to real long dunks, inner reservoir attempts and too much water mixed in the substrate. But I don't include experimental results in my overall average. In addition, I have been guilty of tossing a cake (sometimes a few) that failed to produce and not factored them into my average. So my real numbers might be a bit lower. Not, much though. I expect 7 grams in 3 or 4 flushes from successful Pf style cakes. Pf, B+, Hawaiians apply, I have some Mazs going along now that look like they will yeild average. However, I think higher numbers are possible.
|By Lichen (Lichen) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 02:54 pm:|
so per flush, your cakes on average yield, say,1.75g dry?
|By quote: (Quote) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 03:03 pm:|
yeah, except that the curve is weighted towards the early flushes, like usually 3-4 g on 1st, 2-3 on 2nd, etc. like i stated somewhere b4.
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 03:08 pm:|
If you are asking me, no, I get a little higher than that on average. Except, if I were to factor in those occasional cakes which I toss because they produce nothing, it might be around 1.75g. My 7g average is usually from 3 flushes. And, now that I think about it, the PF race totals are actually lower than the others usually. Too many damn aborts, even with high humidity.
|By TooMushTrippin (Toomushtrippin) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 03:26 am:|
can someone give me a ballpark weight of average flushes from 10 cakes with 1 cc of spores each? im currently doing PF but im going to be doing hawaian as well. needless to say this is my first time growing but so far everything is going good. if someone could give me a range to expect that would be good. thanks
|By Snoopy (Snoopy) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 04:30 am:|
ahhh i usually get 1 0z dried on the first flush with 10 cakes... The avg. amount harvested from a cake in terms of dry weight... altho still in discussion is 3-5 grams ... so multiply that by 10 and there you go. However some people have had better success with up to 9grams dry per cake. Really depends on the roll of the genetic dice, and how accomplished of a grower you are, and how long you can keep your cakes fruiting.
|By awalter44 (Farmerinthedell) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 02:44 am:|
I just started my first batch of shrooms ever and am VERY excited as you can imagine! I am using the simple PF tek and was wondering how many grams/ounces dry weight can I expect from my 12 cakes if everything goes smoothly? Thanks
|By jim brown (Shrhobbyist) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 07:03 am:|
Being a newbie, don't be discouraged if you yeild less than what you hear about people getting on this board. If you get an ounce in 3 flushes you should be happy. You could get up to 3 ounces in 3 flushes but that is a lot to hope for on your first try. Just follow the Tek and be real clean. Most importantly, for a beginner, don't try something that you think might help. Thta must wait until you've got some experience. These weights are for dried fruit. Best of luck.
Biological Efficiency: An Expression
of Yield [GGMM, Stamets 2000, p 55-57]
Mushroom strains vary in their ability to convert substrate materials into mushrooms as measured by a simple formula known as the "Biological Efficiency (B.E.) Formula" (originally developed by the White Button mushroom industry).
This formula states that:
• 1 pound of fresh mushrooms grown from 1 pound of dry substrate is 100% biological efficiency.
Considering that the host substrate is moistened to approximately 75% water content and that most mushrooms have a 90% water content at harvest, 100% B.E. is also equivalent to
• Growing 1 pound of fresh mushrooms for every 4 pounds of moist substrate, a 25% conversion of wet substrate mass to fresh mushrooms, or
• Achieving a 10% conversion of dry substrate mass into dry mushrooms.