I saw the posting about the Hawaiian Baby Rosewood seeds, and Wanted to throw in my two cents... Last night, two of my friends and I decided to try Hawaiian Baby Rosewood seeds. We went to the local head shop and got ten each, took them home and set out to remove any coating. We had heard/read that we should take anywhere from 6-15 seeds each, and after consulting with the clerk, who we knew, and had done them on several occasions, we settled on 8 each, expecting a fairly decent trip. We got them home and scraped off all of the coating to the best of our ability, and then washed them off. We were carefull to remove all of the coating, scraping off the coating and part of the shell with x-acto knives. (Realizing that we'd still get part of the coating, but still wishing to keep it to a minimum.) After scraping and washing, we crushed the seeds up and placed them aside for later. 'K' and 'G' had to work, so we were going to do them when they got off. Around 9pm 'K' and 'G' came over and we downed the seeds. I had not eaten for about 6hrs, 'K' for about 3, and 'G' had just eaten. After 15 min. I had started to feel the effects. The onset was like being dizzy, or groggy after having just gotten up. In about 20 min, K started to feel the same effects while G just felt sick to his stomach. This feeling of groggyness persisted until 10:30, when I proceeded to throw up violently. K said he was feeling fine, and was beginning to have what he termed "A really mellow trip" G still only felt sick. I felt much better after my episode, but was still feeling drained, so I decided to leave K and G and go to bed. This is what they told me happened to them. They went to get something to eat around 12:30 (when I went to bed). they walked around in some woods near where we live, and said it was pleasant. Quite like a very mild trip, then around 2:00, they split up and went home thinking it was over. When G got home (about 2:30) he said he became violently ill, and lost everything he had eaten the entire day. He then tried to go to sleep. K said he went home and tried to sleep, but found himself peaking, experiencing a dizzying trip with very intense tactile, and visual hallucinations. He got up from bed and ended up wandering over to G's house without putting on any additional clothing (wearing only bed-shorts) and then sitting on his steps crying. G didn't experience this sort of peak at all, and found that he was able to calm K down by talking him out of it. (K said afterwards it was like he imagined a bad trip being like. We have done acid on *many* occasions together, and have *never* had a bad experience with acid). After G talked him down, they both managed to sleep, and awoke today feeling a little hungry, and just generally groggy. Meanwhile, I had gone home, still feeling a bit queasy, and decided that I needed sleep more than anything, so I laid down (at 12:30 or so) and tried to sleep. I managed to get to sleep okay, my stomach still aching a bit, and slept fine until 3:30. At 3:30 I awoke in the midsts of the most intense trip I have ever experienced. My thoughts were totally random and I was experiencing *intense* visuals from the moonlight shadows in my room. I managed to stand up, and found that so incredibly difficult that I had to lay back down. My roomate then came out of his room to go to the bathroom, and I found this to be more than I could take... His image against the shadows in my room through me into some really wild hallicinations of wolves and various creatures devouring my flesh. In addition to the visuals, I was getting *major* tactile hallucinations from my sheets. My skin felt like I was being tickled everywhere, and was in the throws of a major orgasm. (Not unpleasant mind you ;) However it was a bit too intense for my tastes. I had several hallucinations of animal images, combined with the urge to run. I contemplated running over to see K and G and if they were having this stuff happen too, but when my roomate appeared, I was too scared to move much. I found it extremely difficult to diferentiate between reality and my hallucinations. (I didn't like this aspect of it at all. When I trip on acid, I usually find that, even though I do hallucinate, I am still conscious of the fact that they are only hallucinations. On the seeds I really couldn't tell.) After laying there hallucinating I fell asleep. I don't know how long I was hallucinating, I was really not interested in timing it either. Around 10, I woke up, and my stomach really hurt. (could have been the seeds, could have been the vomit...) I managed to get something to eat and return to sleeping for a while. I woke up again at noon, feeling well rested, but a bit groggy. I've been in that same groggy state all day. Overall, I'll say that it was worth the experiment to satisfy my curiosity. However, I will not be trying these things again. Ever. First, I have a no vomit rule about drugs... that's why I gave up drinking. Second, I didn't find the peak as thrilling, or as fun as LSD. I still think Acid has the most bang for buck, and give much more pleasurable feelings while peaking. Perhaps the dose was just too high, but based on the feelings in my stomach, I think I'll just stick to good ol' LSD and MJ. -D ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. *IMPORTANT server security update*, mail to update@anon.penet.fi for details. ========================================================================== I recently tried a new route of administration for Hawiian Baby Wood Rose seeds. Why? Eating works fine, except for the unfortunate side effect that my stomach is so tight I don't want to eat, drink, or move. I tried the enema method recommended by a previous poster. It was dissappointing. I ground ten seeds and blended them for an hour in distilled water. Then I filtered the sludge out and used a home enema kit to put the brown juice up my ass. I left it there for about ten minutes. About half an hour later, I felt a little something like a trip, but it quickly went away. So what is my new method? Chewing -- like tobacco. I chewed six seeds without spitting or swallowing for 15 minutes, then gagged and spit them out. I tripped about as hard as I would expect from eating four seeds, but with much diminished side effects. After the first hour I felt like drinking beer and dancing (the don't-move period lasts three hours if I swallow the seeds). My next experiment is to treat them *exactly* like tobacco, using a spittoon. Maybe I can chew them that way for 30 minutes or more. They are fairly cheap, so doubling the quantity is not a problem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. ============================================================================ From: an18826@anon.penet.fi Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds -- Revisited With Amazing Results! Message-ID: <1993Apr27.182833.16787@fuug.fi> Date: 27 Apr 93 18:25:29 GMT Some of you may remember that I posted a description of a rather ho-hum Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seed (HBWS) trip a couple of weeks ago. Last night, a friend and I decided to make another attempt, with an increased dose, though aware of the warning that high dosages are not advisable -- beyond a certain level, experience so far has shown a tendency for limbs to get bluish -- Psychedelics Encyclopedia I soaked twenty seeds in hot tap water for two to three hours, then (despairing of ever finding a mortar & pestle) smashed the seeds to a pulp with needle- nose pliers and added more water to the seeds & water in a tupperware container. I then vigorously shook the container. The water (strangely, since the seeds are brown & white) turned pond-scum green, with lots of seed chunks settling to the bottom. I poured this mixture into two glasses, being careful to add the same proportion of pond-scum-water:seed-chunks to both glasses. My friend downed the mixture in one big gulp, getting some more water to wash some of the seed chunks from the side of the glass. I took it much more slowly, and returned for water a couple more times so I could get the seed chunks down. My friend and I are both tall, thin men in our twenties. I'm about 6'2", he's perhaps an inch or two taller. I weigh about 170 lbs, he is probably in that area -- maybe 10-20 pounds more. I say this for dosage reasons. We're tall fellows -- if you're 5'6" and weigh 130, you probably won't need as many seeds. (Note of warning: If you're pregnant, or think you might be, don't use HBWS or other ergot-type hallucinogens unless you know /exactly/ what you are doing. These drugs can cause uterine contractions and may cause miscarriage) To cut to the chase -- the trip was a "10" for both of us. We've both experienced many LSD trips, and between the two of us have sampled the delights of MDMA and psilocin/cybin. The HBWS trip ranked up there with the best. It started soon but with a long slope. As an illustration, an LSD trip might be described like: ^_ / --___ / ----_____ / ------_______ / --------_________ - t ------------|------------------------------------------------------- 30 min. with a quick peak that's very intense, and then several hours of slowly returning to consensus reality. The HBWS trip was more like: __-____ ____--- -----______ ______----- -------________ - t ----------------------------|--------------------------------------- 3 hours Also, the peak was much less intense. Overall, much much less visual and audio and other sensory hallucinations than with LSD. Visuals were mostly forced for diagnostic reasons, audio was great, but not LSD-profound. But the mind-food -- the intellectual games -- were amazingly good. And the real bonus is that conversation is very easy (on LSD, I often find that I get lost in that enormous jungle of symbols between the beginning of a sentence and it's terminating punctuation mark, making linguistic communication with other people a real chore at times). I could talk and form sentences and such with no more difficulty than usual (and in fact, I felt that my ability to do so was even heightened -- my friend commented at one point that "I have an idea, and the words just /come/! It's incredible!"), but I had much more to talk about than usual. Based on my previous experience, we expected a short trip with little mind- blowing. We took the brew at about 7:00PM and were up until 4:30AM talking almost non-stop metaphysics with two other people who were completely sober. I'm still feeling the effects now, at about 11:00AM. At 4:30 I settled down to sleep and was pleasantly surprised to find that sleep came easily and that the sleep was deep and very satisfying. (On LSD, I find it very difficult to get to sleep until I have come way down from the trip). If you enjoy LSD, I strongly urge you to give this stuff a try. "...of the jungle" sells HBWS at 11 seeds for $2.50, or 100 for $10.00. T.A.E. sells 'em at $25 per 1/2 oz., $40/oz., $110/4oz. and $450/lb. If the ones you get are crusty on the outside, like maybe the inside of a walnut shell, you should crack this pod open and just use the smooth seed inside. I suspect that the outer coating is what causes nausea in some people. ______________________________ Excerpts from my earlier post: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. *IMPORTANT server security update*, mail to update@anon.penet.fi for details. =========================================================================== An experience with Hawaiian Baby Woodrose (Argyreia nervosa) Seeds. =================================================================== I found myself ahead on a writing deadline and with nothing to do on a Tuesday afternoon, so I decided to experiment with Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds. Although I had eaten a large meal the night before, I had had nothing to eat during the day, and so I hoped to avoid the nausea that had been reported by some users. This nausea is attributed either to the seeds themselves, or to coatings supposedly put on seeds by seed companies to discourage this sort of thing, depending on who you talk to. A third suspicion of mine was that people were more likely to try morning glory seeds than HBWR seeds, and that it takes a whole lot more of the former to feel any effects, and that it was the sheer quantity of the seeds that was causing nausea in these people. In any case, I'm writing this at about 2:05PM and will find out shortly... :-` HBWR seeds, like morning glory seeds, contain such nicely active ingredients as d-lysergic acid amide and d-isolysergic acid amide (a.k.a. ergine & isoergine) which are close relatives of your old friend and pal (can you believe she's 50?) d-lysergic acid diethylamide (a.k.a. LSD). According to Peter Stafford's "Psychedelics Encyclopedia" (3rd Expanded Edition, pp. 98-99): "Lysergic acid amides are quite concentrated in the seeds of this ornamental, much more so than in psychedelic morning glories. Four to six seeds (the contents of one or two pods) are the equivalent of 100 to 150 Ipomoea morning glory seeds and will produce a full-blown experience. The result is generally more tranquil than what is induced by LSD. While LSD is perceived by most users as having stimulant effects, to which a few people are particularly sensitive, the botanical sources have more of a slowing or depressant effect. Some users complain that they have had a hangover, which has been characterized by Emboden as possibly involving `nausea, vertigo, blurred vision and physical inertia.' More often, however, these seeds have invigorated their users, leaving them feeling as though they had been on vacation afterwards." Stafford recommended (with Morning Glories) that "seeds should be ground to a flour before use; it's also a good idea to soak them in water -- the psychoactive components are soluble -- and then to strain the liquid through cheesecloth. The amides of value are in the liquid, which is ready for consumption." I did not follow this advice directly -- I soaked the whole seeds and put them in a blender. I was also unable to find motion sickness tablets at the supermarket, and so am not testing out another piece of advice that was given to me -- take some dramamine before the seeds to reduce nausea. Also mentioned by Stafford was that "high dosages are not advisable -- beyond a certain level, experience so far has shown a tendency for limbs to get bluish" (perhaps by the same gangrene-producing effect as that produced by the ergot fungus in `ergotism'). I decided to look out for this effect as best as I could. 1:30 PM -- I covered six seeds with hot tap water in a small bowl. 1:50 PM -- I poured the seeds and water into a small food processor and chopped the seeds as well as I could. It was a bit like chopping up small, soft rocks. I then added some orange juice, a few frozen cherries, raspberries, and strawberries, and blended for another minute or so. 2:00 PM -- I began to drink the resulting mixture, and I packed a small bowl of marijuana to smoke to combat possible nausea. My hope was that the effects of the marijuana would have vanished by the time the HBWR seeds began to work their wonders. 2:15 PM -- I am nicely high and reaching the bottom of my psychic smoothie. 2:25 PM -- I am very high and have finished off said smoothie. 2:45 PM -- Wow, that was great dope. No nausea yet. 3:10 PM -- Got munchies; had some soda crackers. No nausea or other ill effects. Still feel pleasantly high. I cannot tell at this juncture whether this is just good dope or whether HWBR are starting up. 3:45 PM -- At this point I am experiencing nothing that I cannot plausably attribute to lingering marijuana effects. 4:00 PM -- By now, I would have expected the marijuana effects to have just about ended. I'm experiencing mild visual distortions (walls breathing) and some tactile enhancement (carpet between my toes feels nice). Nothing like a "full-blown experience" yet. Also, there is very minor auditory enhancement, and some of those LSD leg jitters (wanting to keep time to some beat about 4x/second). 4:30 PM -- Became sleepy, started to doze off during "Voodoo Chile." Was awakened by bass guitar shaking my left foot. Still no nausea or ill effects, but I'm most definately stoned. Sort of like LSD, but without the early rush. More like what LSD would be like if you missed the first four hours. Either that, or I'm just starting the climb. 5:05 PM -- No increase in effects. If this is all there is, I'm not too impressed. 5:30 PM -- Doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I just feel mildly strange and slightly uncoordinated. 6:00 PM -- Still slightly stoned. Ate vegies and bread and cheese. Not much happening. I think I'll try a few more seeds next time and see how that works. This must be one of those "physical inertia" trips... Oh well, better luck next time. 7:35 PM -- Am almost completely down. In retrospect, it wasn't completely unexciting, and with the right set and setting might have been very nice. Very mellow, though. Not too much going on. Much less auditory effects than I would expect from LSD or marijuana. No limb bluing, no nausea. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. *IMPORTANT server security update*, mail to update@anon.penet.fi for details. ============================================================================= Message-ID: <195303Z05091993@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.drugs From: an33895@anon.penet.fi Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1993 19:46:38 UTC Subject: HBWR seeds: story and advice Well, yesterday a FOAF and his friends had their first experience with Hawiian Baby Wood Rose seeds, which my FOAF later dubbed "The wacky russian rulette of acid". Four people ate the seeds, three of them tripped, each with varying degrees of intensity. They had some wisdom that they thought I should pass on to the net. One thing to keep in mind is that these seeds are naturally growing botanicals and due to each plants idiosyncracies one cannot reliably estimate how much LSA one is ingesting by the number of seeds you eat. One of my FOAF's friends ate three seeds and had a typical mild acid trip (intense colors, trails, and mild synthenesia). Another one had nine seeds and got absolutely no effect. Two others ate nine and had moderate trips, one good and one not so good (more later). My FOAF had twenty seeds and had the most intense trip of his life, including phantom music, very intense and dramatic synthenesia, and occasional withdrawls from reality, where his normal vision was completely obscured by intense patterns and colors... kinda scary sometimes. As you can see, your milage may vary. No one got physically ill as a result of taking the seeds, although one of my FOAF's friends admitted, after eating the seeds, that he thought he might be coming down with the flu. STUPID! Twice during the evening he began to feel nausiated and dizzy, and when he did, he correspondingly reported having "uncool" experiences and went off by himself for a while. This morning he is down but suffering from the flu. Although the seeds have a reputation as being "weak" acid, my FOAF would not recommend that they are eaten by the unexperienced user, since they had such a wide range of effectiveness. Getting acid with a reliable mic count would be a better way to go at first, to add a bit more control to the already unpredictable activity of dropping. That's all for now. I hope this is of use to someone. I've learned much from alt.drugs, and it's good to return the favor! Happy tripping! Jake ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. ============================================================================= Message-ID: <222302Z22111993@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.drugs From: an18826@anon.penet.fi Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 22:13:47 UTC Subject: A powerful HBWS experience Yet another Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seed Experiment (or how I learned to loathe myself and respect ergot alkaloids) Date: 22 November 1993 (the day after) Here's the situation, kids; see if you can find where I went horribly, tragically wrong: Several weeks ago, over a period of a couple of months, my lover and I of four and a half years broke up, I lost my job and subsequently my home, and had a brief fling which punched holes in my reputation and self-image. Still managing to convince myself that I was the free-spirit, untouched by the illusionary material world, I put on a happy face et cetera. A few days ago, however, I started to dwell on thoughts of self-doubt, worry, mild paranoia, and depression. Drum roll please. So I thought I'd take a psychedelic drug and see if that helped to put things back in perspective. WRONG! What, was I out of my mind? Lesson number one in the psychedelic universe: Don't use a psychedelic drug as a mood-lifter, to escape bad feelings, or to make a bad situation better. It don't work that way. The pharmacological details: A couple of days prior to the experiment, I ground up fifty Hawaiian Baby Woodrose (Argyreia nervosa) seeds in a mortar and pestle, and put the resulting powder into gel caps. There were about 3.5 seeds per gel cap, with even potency across all of the gel caps. Part of the motivation for my experiment was to test the potency/toxicity of the seeds taken in this manner. I had taken ten seeds, cracked in water, and had a terrific trip; and I had taken twelve seeds in a similar way and been wracked with nausea, stupor, and a generally bad time. So I took two capsules, what I expected to be about 2/3rds of a real dose. My notes follow (indented) with comments (not indented): 1 PM - two caps I had also been taking ginseng fairly regularly for the previous week or two, and I don't know how these two drugs might have reacted. What I believed I had been noticing from the ginseng were the following symptoms: a) increased creativity, b) more alertness without caffeine jitteryness, c) slight paranoia. Of course any of the above could also be the result of a placebo effect, or of the emotional turmoil in my life. I was not taking any other drugs at the time. I had smoked a good hunk of weed the previous afternoon. 1:30 - slight runs, tight bridge of nose The slight runs were slightly loose bowels, I included them in my notes without knowing whether or not they represented the first symptoms of nausea. In the aftermath, I'd say that it was just coincidence. The tight bridge of nose was one of those bells that goes off in my mind and says to me, "remember, you just took a psychedelic and here it comes!" 1:35 - tight top of head Similarly. 1:45 - stomach grumbling This was probably caused more by the drug, but I'm not sure. There wasn't much nausea (thank God) at all this time. A little bit hit me at one point, but nothing in itself particularly bothersome. 2:40 - very slight nausea twinge, some peripheral visual distortion[, ] cold feet There is the nausea I was talking about. By "twinge," I mean that it was noticable, but not lasting. A moment would come and I would say, "gee, I feel kind of sick to my stomach," but then it would go away. Could be explained by just the psychedelic coenesthetic fuzziness, but I don't think I was tripping that hard yet. Cold feet was a "just in case" marker for me. Stafford's "Psychedelics Encyclopedia" mentions that ergot alkaloids like those in HBWS and MGS can at higher doses cause the limbs to turn bluish. (See: ergotism). So far this hasn't happened to me, but I try to be alert for the effects. It was a chilly day, and my feet were propped up, so I think it was not a drug effect. 2:50 - More tummy rumbles. 3:00 - Take 500 mg C - folklore I'm two hours into the dose and not getting much out of it but some slight peripheral vision fuzziness and motion, and a weird overall feeling. So I try to augment the trip with Vitamin C. I have no idea if this works or not, but it's everpresent acid folklore, and it's harmless as far as I know. 4:15 - Tired, amotivational[, ] Somewhat trippy. I think the trip started right about here - three hours and fifteen minutes after taking the powdered seeds. That's something I should stress right off the bat about HBWS - the curve is very very different from that of LSD. On LSD, you accelerate quickly to the peak (within an hour or two of taking the drug), and then spend another couple of hours or more at the peak before sliding slowly down to baseline. With HBWR, you spend the first three to six hours just climbing to the peak, and then a shorter time falling back to baseline. I don't think I reached the peak until six or seven at night - five or six hours after taking the capsules. Quite a long ride, with none of the "it's all downhill from here" sense that you get if things get confusing on acid. 6:00 - emotionally depressed - No, make that fucking despondent By this time things had started to go bad. I tried all of the traditional things to swing things around: Went to the bathroom, made some food, took a walk in the fresh air, turned on more lights, changed the music. Nothing worked. I was feeling the beginnings of what would be a very panicked depressive episode. Nobody loved me, even the people I thought were my friends were really annoyed with me and talked about me behind my back, my pretensions had become such an integral part of my self-image that seeing them shattered was destroying my identity. I felt that if people knew who I really was, they would be disgusted or frightened and run away, and so I had to wear a mask, which of course was another way of keeping people at a distance from my real self, so there was no way I could win... Whew. It was bad, folks. Going for a quick-paced walk helped, but only by keeping my mind busy thinking about route and traffic lights and whether or not it was going to rain. Overall the mood was still bad. I stopped by a donut shop to get a chocolate-covered devil's food donut with chocolate chips. Chocolate is another of my temperamental mood-lifters that I've kept in my bag of acid trips for that rainy day when I need it. But the wisdom of this decision didn't stand up; I thought that when I crashed from the sugar high things would just be that much worse. So I tossed the donut away. 7:00 - Still depressed - some anaesthesia - pinches don't hurt as much as they should. Tripping at about maximum so far, but wish it would stop. I should note at this point that there is a history of depression in my family, my younger brother is taking medication for depression, and most of the women on my mother's side of the family seem to have had some sort of breakdown in their past. So far, except for a period of bad depression in adolescence (which could have just been adolescence, of course), I've escaped in terrific shape. My mood has been generally good, and my psychedelic trips have been 95% wonderful. But, after a few hours of this nonsense, I was convinced that my bad mood and such over the previous days was part of a spiral into mental illness and that I was going straight to the funny farm. I was exhibiting a lot of the signs of a panic attack and severe depression, and I wasn't sure how much I could attribute to the drug, and how much was just me. Remember that I had taken what I thought was 2/3rds of a good dose of HBWS, which I translated as about 2/3rds again of a reasonable dose of LSD. In other words, about half a hit: small potatoes for a veteran tripper. The anaesthesia I'm talking about was kind of interesting. At one point, I pinched the web of skin between my thumb and finger, and although I could feel the pain, it didn't seem to mean anything to me. So I pinched harder. Sure enough, the pain increased slightly, but it still didn't mean anything to me. So I pinched as hard as I could. Still, no injury I could get excited about, although there was clearly some tissue trauma. Two things of note: One, this may have been an effect of the drug, and if so, is a new one to me. Two, severely depressed people sometimes engage in self- mutilation, and this may have been an inkling of that for me. 7:22 - Niacin At this point I remembered another bit of folklore - the "niacin abort." I decided to give it a try. I took one 100 mg tablet of niacin. I don't know if it did any good or not. A little after this point - I was alone in the apartment, and had been alone through the whole trip - I called a very good friend and trip buddy, telling him that "I'm having a bad trip and I can't get out." I felt very ashamed, because one of my own rules for drug taking is that I can't use drugs to put obligations on other people. But my friend was happy to help me out, and was a soothing voice and a shoulder to lean on when I really, really needed one. By this time, I felt like a raving nut. I would prop up my face in my hands, then cover my mouth with my hands, then bite my fingers, then rub my nose, then rub my hands through my hair, then rub my eyes, then bite my thumbnail, then lean my chin on my hand - all in the course of a couple of seconds. I thought that I probably sounded like that woman in the diner in the movie "Slacker." ("You shouldn't. You should not. You should't. You shouldn't. You shouldn't traumatize a woman sexually. You shouldn't. You should not...") Except that my dialogue was at the same time more coherent and more troubled: "I feel so alienated. I look at people. I look at them talk. I look at people talk and I can't understand them. I mean I understand what they are saying, and I know what the words mean, but I don't understand the transaction that's taking place. I don't know the rules. I try to talk, but people look at me and expect me to say more and I don't know the rules. I look at people and I don't understand. Nobody knows who I am. I can't understand them. I'm trying to say I feel alienated. Like I'm not one of them. They're doing something when they talk and it's not in the words and I can't understand what it is." I mean, really, really, bonkers call the men in the white suits stuff. Most of the above was in reference to a party I went to the night before where I didn't know very many of the people in attendance. They had social conventions in common, and shared interests (Star Trek and the Rocky Horror Picture Show) that I did not share with them, so in a way it was as though I'd landed on another planet. But my feelings of alienation had been extrapolated to include the whole human race. It was bad. I have new understanding for the tales of people who took acid and committed suicide. For a long time I thought of these tales as drug war propaganda or coincidence. Now I have a little more understanding of how a pre-existing depression could be catapulted into a state of absolute hopeless- ness under the influence of a psychedelic. 9:10 - Coming down finally. And rapidly, too. The whole coming-down time seemed to take about fifteen minutes. One minute I was babbling nonsense and biting my fingers, the next minute I'm sipping tea and putting some Paul Simon on the CD player. Perhaps the niacin took effect, or maybe thats the unfamiliar HBWS curve again. What lessons can the readers of alt.drugs get from my tale of woe? HBWS did not give me a bad trip. HBWS gave me a powerful trip that was bad because of the soil the seeds were planted in: an emotionally troubled mind. HBWS is powerful juju. It's not a poor substitute for the real thing; it IS the real thing. My recommendation: Do not trip on a psychedelic drug if you're in a bad mood, depressed, or suffering from some sort of emotional turmoil. And, finally, think twice about tripping alone. Personally, I'm going to stay away from drugs, ginseng, chocolate, and concentrated sugar for a couple of weeks at least, just to do an evaluation of where my head's at and make sure I'm not falling prey to the family curse. I feel much better this morning (last night I was sure I'd never recover), although a bit apprehensive. I'm going to treat psychedelics in a much more reverent fashion from here on out, and tread more lightly on my mind. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. ============================================================================= From: popeyeti@access1.digex.net (Pope Electric Yeti) Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Baby Hawaiian Woodrose Message-ID: <2idggt$t2g@news1.digex.net> Date: 29 Jan 94 11:15:41 GMT I had a really bad trip on these once, good at first, like being drunk with trippy visuals.Then everything started to spin and I got sick. I became really scared and convinced that I was going to die. I had to go to a friends house to chill out when it was all over. Never again... Spend your money on good blotter or 'shrooms, but you *really* might want to stay away from this one.... Anybody else have this kind of experience? Pope. ============================================================================= From: 25u7gardinie@vms.csd.mu.edu Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: My HBWR experiences Date: 1 Feb 1994 01:11:21 GMT Message-ID: <009795F5.D1B78320@vms.csd.mu.edu> I have been following the thread on HBWR and felt it about time to share my own experiences in the area. By no means am I refuting anything already said, I am only offering my own experience for consideration to those willing to listen. I like the seeds. I have had rather nice experiences with them and will continue to use them from time to time. The worst physical side effect I have had from them was stomach cramping and that was without dramamine. The method I have used with the seeds is fairly simple. I grind up the number I am going to ingest and then soak them in water for an hour or two. Then I drain the water so as to seperate the seed matter from it. I toss the seed matter away (I don't remember where, perhaps Jonathon Ott, I'll check, but anyways, I remember reading that the alkaloids responsible for much of the toxic symptoms are not water soluble and therefore will remain in the seed matter). Anyways, the resulting drink I am left with I ingest over 30-45 minutes. This also seems to reduce the bad effects. The only part I find annoying is the lethargy, but that seems to be overcome by setting as I have had many enjoyable walks while under the effects although the first few steps took one hell of a lot of will power. I would suggest though that anyone interested in exploring these start out with a small amount and work their way up. A previous poster mentioned 20-30 seeds. I personally would never take that many seeds, at least not at this point in time. my max currently is about 13 or so. My first time was with 8 or 9. Well, hopefully someone found this to be of some value. ============================================================================= From: ceh1@acpub.duke.edu (Charles Eric Horowitz) Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: HBWS, works for me! Message-ID: <2j90ik$sl@news.duke.edu> Date: 8 Feb 94 21:35:16 GMT After not reading for a while, I tried to catch up with the news and read several negative posts concerning Hawaiin Babay Woodrose Seeds, so I thought Id relate my experience with them. First off, my one time with them (Havent really had 8 hours to blow on them), about 2 weeks ago had some litigating circumstances which could have effected them. First I had only 2 hours of sleep the night before, and second I took 8 of them(with the white fungus coating scraped off) at about midnight. About 3 minutes after completely chewing them, I began feeling really slow and lazy, and got pretty hot and uncomfortanble(i had not taken any dramamine). I got the dry heaves a few times, but since I hadnt eaten in hours, I was OK. After about 40 minutes of this hot, nausious(sp?) really lazy feeling, with no trippy results, I said, forget it! and went to bed. About an hour and a half later I woke up feeling like I was on a boat in a hurricane. My equilibrium was completely out of whack, so I got up to get some water. When I went into the bathroom and looked in the mirror, I saw that my pupils were the size of the entire iris, so guessing that the seeds had worked, I stepped back about a foot and began to stare at myself to see what would happen. Unfortunately, I had taken my lenses out to go to sleep so I was now nearly blind, however, sure enough, I began to warp and twist and invert into myself. I also noticed at this point that the dizzy feeling was gone and now I actually felt rather euphoric. I noticed that the walls were breathing rather gently. I spent the next few hours experimenting and pretty much determined that I could will what would happen(i.e., I could stare at my hand and make my fingers grow really long, etc). I spent a few minutes talking to the ceiling(those circular light holes sure look like mouths, especially when their breathing). I only got to talk to one person that night and the floor was breathing, and he kept rising and falling about a foot and a half up and down, rather amusingly. Anyway, by four or so I began feeling really tired so I tried to go back to bed. Unfortunately I couldnt stay asleep for more than a few minutes at a time as anytime I laid down, that dizzy, off balance feeling returned, yet whenever I stood or sat, I felt really close to euphoria. Finally got to sleep at about 8, and didnt wake up until 3 or so, and felt really strung out the rest of the day. Im hoping that next time I try these, its with sleep, and dramamine and a little earlier in the day, but overall I rather enjoyed the exp. CHUCK ============================================================================= From: lewis@aera2.mitre.org (Keith Lewis) Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Woodrose seeds from T.A.E. report Date: 18 May 1994 19:23:43 GMT Message-ID: <2rdq00$jv5@linus.mitre.org> Two different shipments of HBWR seeds from the same source, two years apart. #1 (then): Seeds were light brown and had concave spots with a very hard shell. ~150 mg. #2 (now): Seeds are dark brown and *hairy*. They are almost double the size (~275 mg). Convex, with an equally hard shell. What's the deal? Were the old ones immature? What about potency? These new things scare me! --Keith Lewis klewis@mitre.org PGP key available. .. pH balanced for your decisions, your life. -- Proctor & Gamble The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. ============================================================================= From: weeleaze@eos.ncsu.edu (WILLIAM E ELEAZER) Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.hemp Subject: Baby Wood Rose Tried Date: 22 May 1994 23:13:30 GMT Message-ID: <2roouq$maa@taco.cc.ncsu.edu> Well I sent off to T.A.E for some Baby Wood Rose Seeds and they convinced me to get the sample kit which consisted of maybe 200 hemp seeds (precooked), about 25 each of Wood Rose and Baby Wood Rose seeds. A friend and I rubbed the hairs off of 8 Baby Wood Rose seeds, ground them to a pulp in a mortar and pestle, split it in half, mixed it with a cup of coffee and drank the mix. We had to spoon out the grit ( the ground Baby Wood Rose Seeds) out because it all sunk to the bottom. When I did this it tasted exactly like what really good blotter tastes like, but the taste went away pretty quickly. There was no ensuing trip. Anyone have any comments?