Aucbvax.6015 fa.space utcsrgv!utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!space Mon Feb 1 03:38:04 1982 SPACE Digest V2 #94 >From OTA@S1-A Mon Feb 1 03:31:11 1982 SPACE Digest Volume 2 : Issue 94 Today's Topics: Tech vs Humanist duplication of articles Appropriate Quote... Reply to Rick at watmath Humanism vs Technology poking in here ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun Jan 31 06:00:51 1982 To: Space@MIT-MC From: ucbvax!decvax!watmath!Rick@Berkeley Subject: Tech vs Humanist Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Frankly, I really didn't mean to start all of this... My apologies to all on net.space, and my absolute last word on the subject. First, it should be pointed out that no one ever claimed that ignorance of the humanities was bliss, or at least not harmful. It was claimed that no major moral or social problems have ever been solved by that rather unfortunate group that describe themselves as `social engineers'. I'm still waiting for a counter example. The point that was made was that typically, merchants and technologists solved the problems because *they saw a social need*. The typical action of the humanist to the problem was either to ignore it, or to justify it (read Aristotle on the subject of slavery, for instance). There are some prominent thinkers in the humanities whose works deserve attention. Friedman is an excellent example. So is Easton. Toynbee and Hobbes are first-rate reading, and a must for anyone who wishes to understand history. However ( again with the notable exception of Milton Friedman ) the current rather sad collection of scholars that dominate the thinking of the humanities can provide us with no solutions to our current problems. Rather than attempting to increase human freedom, the current intellectual fashion is to curtail it. Rather than attempting to expand and increase human wealth, the current fashion is the age of limits. And rather than attempting to master the basics of the technologies that have taken us from an impoverished, rural culture to the mightiest, wealthiest and most knowledgeable society this planet has ever seen, there is a popular intellectual fashion to argue that technological solutions to technological problems should not be pursued, because *that would create a privileged class on whom the ignorant would be independent*. There are few sentiments that are more ominous than this war cry of the new barbarians. Sorry I can't be cheerier about these characters, but most of us have seen far too much of the Naders, the Ehrlichs, the Fondas and the Trudeaus to have many illusions about humanists in the 1980s. Rick. ------------------------------ Date: Sun Jan 31 14:38:43 1982 To: Space@MIT-MC From: ucbvax!decvax!duke!cjp@Berkeley Subject: duplication of articles Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. 1 2 3 4 5 6 (ARPAVAX blank lines: how many get lost?) I'm getting real tired of reading the same articles in fa.space as I read yesterday in net.space. Is there any way to avoid this? For example, could the fa.space moderator digestify separately the stuff from UNIXland and distribute it only to ARPA sites? Charles J. Poirier (duke!cjp) ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jan 1982 1538-PST Sender: BILLW at SRI-KL Subject: Appropriate Quote... From: William "Chops" Westfield To: Space-Enthusiasts at MIT-MC Message-ID: <[SRI-KL]31-JAN-82 15:38:37.BILLW> In-Reply-To: Your message of 31 Jan 1982 0302-PST "There are two kinds of fools: One says 'This is old, and therefore good', And the other says 'This is new, and therefore better'" ------------------------------ Date: Sun Jan 31 17:24:45 1982 To: Space at MIT-MC From: ucbvax!ihnss!vax135!harpo!utah-cs!lepreau at Berkeley Subject: Reply to Rick at watmath Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. If you're going to subject us to this hero-worship of Friedman and company for God's sakes at least spare us the arrogance of phrases like "most of us" when describing your own dislike of the Naders and Ehrlichs and your idolatry of the likes of old Milt. ------------------------------ From: RWK@MIT-AI Date: 02/01/82 02:45:12 Subject: Humanism vs Technology RWK@MIT-AI 02/01/82 02:45:12 Re: Humanism vs Technology To: POURNE at MIT-AI CC: SPACE at MIT-AI As I see it, Humanism is not just concerned with Art, but with such important questions as whether to burn all the technology. Of course, there is an obvious answer, and there are stupid humanists, just as there are Technologists who think they wouldn't mind living in a post nuclear era as long as we teach the Ruskies a lesson. But for the most part, there are no Technologists, merely clever Humanists! (See what you can do with words!) BTW, ever notice that there doesn't seem to be a word like Technologism? ------------------------------ Date: Mon Feb 1 00:14:08 1982 To: Space at MIT-MC From: ucbvax!decvax!yale-com!harley at Berkeley Subject: poking in here Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. first i note that talking of a dualism of technologists & humanists is like giving emphasis to the itsy-bitsy tailends of a bellcurve. then i wonder how the connection between humanism & art was made, so i really wonder whether we have a consensus definition of humanism, or just a meaningless word around which to rotate. next, i consider trying to label the reagan government either technologist or humanist ... & give up, but not without a fight. then, fondling the notion that technologists are more "socially valuable" than humanists, i try to reconcile the war machine. and i see the technologists claiming that their work trickles down into the wanting parts of society ... ... but will no one agree that humanities trickle down even less directly, but more evenly & (i dare ask) more positively? (think about that; apply trickledown theory across the board & see what it amounts to, beyond reaganism. what tricklesdown do you like best?) and finally i realize that, technologist or humanist, most of you are proud of your opinions but have given them little thought. you should be ashamed; as elitists, you should be committed to excellence. the last place i'd want to find the people doing this talking would be in a position of power. - steve harley (yale-comix!harley) ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest ******************* ----------------------------------------------------------------- gopher://quux.org/ conversion by John Goerzen of http://communication.ucsd.edu/A-News/ This Usenet Oldnews Archive article may be copied and distributed freely, provided: 1. There is no money collected for the text(s) of the articles. 2. The following notice remains appended to each copy: The Usenet Oldnews Archive: Compilation Copyright (C) 1981, 1996 Bruce Jones, Henry Spencer, David Wiseman.