Mobile Office Online's Open Press Conference Aug. 17, 1994 Electronic Privacy Guests: Dave Sobel, legal counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center. David Farber, Moore Professor of Telecommunications, University of Pennsylvania and board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Donn Parker, senior management consultant for SRI International, a not-for-profit organization. Mark Kellner, technology columnist, Washington Times. Hosts: Chuck Ashman, executive producer, Mobile Office Productions. Dan Rosenbaum, editor, Mobile Office magazine. Online Host: Chris Peacock, editor, Mobile Office Online. ---------------------------------------------------- OnlineHost : Welcome to the auditorium! Remember, your comments are seen only by other members of your row. OnlineHost : Copyright Cowles Business Media, 1994 OnlineHost : Welcome to Mobile Office Online's open press conference. OnlineHost : Tonight, we're going to discuss the hottest topic in cyberspace: electronic privacy. OnlineHost : We welcome your questions and comments. OnlineHost : Your host is Chuck Ashman, executive producer of Mobile Office Productions. OnlineHost : Onstage is Dave Sobel, legal counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center. Dsobel: Hi Chuck. Good to be here. A1 CHUCK : Welcome David...let us start with the big question...will the government have a clipper A1 CHUCK : chip and be able to access all of our computers...yes or no and if yes, why? Dsobel : Maybe. There's a lot of uncertainty concerning Dsobel : Clipper right now. It's been badly received by the public, but the White House seems committed to it. A1 CHUCK : If you just joined us our guest for this conference is David Sobel, Legal Counsel for A1 CHUCK : a new organization Electronic Privacy Information Center. David can you explain what A1 CHUCK : your Center is doing and how and why is a "liberal" like Bill Clinton pushing for A1 CHUCK : a Big Brother Clipper chip? Dsobel : EPIC is looking at the info highway and how it's design impacts on privacy. As for Clinton's Dsobel : support for Clipper, I think the NSA and FBI have put out some real horror stories to the White House Dsobel : about the need for electronic surveillance to protect national security. OnlineHost : OK. Let's take a question from a member of our audience. OnlineHost : Tonight we're discussing the issue of electronic privacy. OnlineHost : To ask a question, click on the interact icon at the top of your screen, OnlineHost : type in your question or comment, and click "send." Question : How are we going to be affected by Clipper Technology? Dsobel : Clipper itself is only intended for phones. The big question is what will happen with respect to Dsobel : data transmissions. The fear is that the Clipper type of "key escrow" scheme will become mandatory Dsobel : at some point, raising real concerns about secure communications. Under such a plan, the government will Dsobel : hold the keys to all communications. A1 CHUCK : Dave Sobel has been a key lawyer in many freedom of information cases and is in A1 CHUCK : court over the Clipper chip and the National Security Archive. He will field your A1 CHUCK : questions. OK Chris from the audience. Question : How can we get updates from EPIC on new technology releases-, i.e. privacy, health care Question : issues? Is there a listserv on the Internet? Dsobel : Send mail to with the message Dsobel : "subscribe cpsr-announce OnlineHost : This is Mobile Office Online's open press conference. OnlineHost : Tonight we're discussing the issue of electronic privacy. OnlineHost : Onstage is Dave Sobel, legal counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center. Question : what advice would you give to someone online about meeting people? Dsobel : If the question is how they can secure their communications with strangers, the answer is Dsobel : cryptography, which is now widely available. OnlineHost : OK. Let's take a question from a member of our audience. OnlineHost : To ask a question, click on the interact icon at the top of your screen, OnlineHost : type in your question or comment, and click "send." Question : How "private" is e-mail? Dsobel : Not very. It's really more like sending a postcard then a letter. The problem is that we never know Dsobel : how our mail is routed, so it's passing through a lot of machines along its way. Fairly unsecure. Question : I understand it is possible to "sniff" out a person's password if you have the proper Question : network analyzers. Is that true? Dsobel : I'm not a security expert, but it's my understanding that any password is subject to Dsobel : compromise. Security folks recommend changing passwords periodically. Question : What about PGP? People say the government can't decrypt it, but what do we believe? Dsobel : PGP is a strong "public key" crypto system. From all accounts, it's very secure. In fact, many Dsobel : people believe it was the gov't's fear of PGP and similar programs that gave rise to the Clipper plan. A1 CHUCK : If you are new to our Wednesday night press conference, we try to bring experts on A1 CHUCK : key topics here courtesy of Mobile Office Online. We focus on these issues in our A1 CHUCK : Mobile Office Magazine and you can access relevant articles etc. and product info A1 CHUCK : through the keyword Mobile. Coming up next hour two of the top experts who have A1 CHUCK : helped shape computer policy in this country with Mark Kellner of A1 CHUCK : 'Washington Times and Editor Dan Rosenbaum of Mobile Office Magazine. Right now A1 CHUCK : David Sobel who has fought the good fight for many a consumer cause is fielding your A1 CHUCK : questions about privacy or the lack of it these days. He is counsel for the Electronic A1 CHUCK : Privacy Information Center. OK Chris go for audience questions. OnlineHost : To ask a question, click on the interact icon at the top of your screen, OnlineHost : type in your question or comment, and click "send." Question : There has been talk about instituting a personal health card as part of Clinton's health Question : care plan. By doing so, wouldn't we be letting "Big Brother" invade yet another aspect of our Question : lives? How can we prevent this from happening? Dsobel : One of the concerns about the health plan is the proposal to use the SSN as the health ID number. Dsobel : The SSN already ties together a vast amount of personal info, so adding health data raises some Dsobel : concerns. We also need to ensure that the national health database will be secure and not subject to Dsobel : misuse. A1 CHUCK : David, I find it amazing that the Clinton administration, the father of the information A1 CHUCK : superhighway and a man who got elected with some populist views is resisting so many A1 CHUCK : of these issues. For example, cops would love to have a microphone in every home A1 CHUCK : and it would help prevent crime but we respect our home sanctity. If they have A1 CHUCK : evidence of a crime, they can get a search warrant. Why should computers be A1 CHUCK : different? If they think the bad guys are about to bomb someone, can't they get a A1 CHUCK : warrant and access without a mike in all our computers? Dsobel : The feds would still need search warrants. The issue is whether our communications systems should Dsobel : be designed to *facilitate* surveillance. That's what the administration is pushing for, with Clipper and Dsobel : now the FBI digital telephony proposal. This is really a new development -- in the past we didn't Dsobel : design our systems with the express purpose of guaranteeing access to the gov't. OnlineHost : OK. Let's take a question from a member of our audience. Question : Rumor has it that the Clinton administration is backing off on the Clipper/Capstone issue. Question : What is your current understanding? Dsobel : There was some confusion last month after VP Gore sent a letter about Clipper. Some folks read it Dsobel : as a change of policy, but the White House denied it. By all indications, Clipper is alive and well. OnlineHost : OK. Let's take a question from a member of our audience. Question : When you link up a computer with a cell phone aren't you inviting a phone tap...isn't it Question : relatively easy to get in? Dsobel : Cell phones are notoriously insecure. I wouldn't send anything sensitive out over the air. A1 CHUCK : David, is this shaping up as a political argument..Dems vs. republicans or what A1 CHUCK : is the dividing line...privacy is like motherhood and good cherry pie..everybody should A1 CHUCK : like it. Who is arguing on the other side of the issue. Dsobel : Not really. The issue cuts across traditional lines -- left and right. It's really the Dsobel : law enforcement and intelligence agencies pushing these anti-privacy measures. Question : Regarding junk mail, if our home and business addresses can be sold, can our e-mail Question : addresses be sold as well? Soon will we be opening our e-mail boxes only to find them filled to Question : capacity with junk e-mail? Dsobel : I haven't seen much of that yet, but I suspect it's coming. Personal info is a very hot commodity, Dsobel : and there seems to be a market for just about everything. This may be a real problem when we Dsobel : really go interactive on the "info highway." Lots of transactional date -- what you buy, videos you Dsobel : request, etc. -- will be available for sale. We really need to regulate such practices. OnlineHost : If you'd like to ask a question, use the Interact OnlineHost : with Host icon at the top of your screen. Question : EMAIL should be fairly secure from most users, except of course from System Question : Administrators with management privilege. Is this a reasonable supposition, or are there other Question : weaknesses? Dsobel : An in-house company system is not very secure -- it's not protected by federal law. And as I said Dsobel : earlier, email on the Internet passes through a lot of potentially vulnerable points. OnlineHost : OK. Let's take a question from a member of our audience. Question : Is email/Ims subject to the same legal privacy rights as telephone calls are.....e.g., Question : would a search warrant be required for law enforcement to monitor your email/im's? Dsobel : Yes, a warrant is required. But remember that, unlike phone calls, a lot of email is archived Dsobel : in various sites, so it may create more of a permanent record than you're aware of. A1 CHUCK : This topic of privacy affects every one of you out there and every computer user not A1 CHUCK : signed on. this topic will not go away. We are going to continue to pursue it giving A1 CHUCK : online time to all sides including the Justice department and some of the members of A1 CHUCK : Congress who argue for the clipper and against David Sobel and other consumer A1 CHUCK : advocates who are worried about the invasion of privacy. David is legal counsel for A1 CHUCK : the Electronic Privacy Information Center and involved in litigation challenging the A1 CHUCK : administration's growing policy of big brother for the computer world. We invite your A1 CHUCK : questions. OK Chris to the audience Question : If someone sent private messages slandering someone, may these letters be used in court Question : against them? Dsobel : There really should be no distinction between something written on paper or posted electronically Dsobel : to the net. The key point is the nature of the information that is being published, and it could Dsobel : be considered defamatory regardless of form. OnlineHost : Let's take a question for Dave Sobel from a member of our audience. Question : But we arm out police with battering rams to break down the doors of those against whom Question : they have a search warrant. Shouldn't we arm them with equally powerful tools for computer access? Dsobel : I guess the better analogy might be whether we should outlaw any building material that isn't Dsobel : transparent. We don't require that doors be built so that they can be easily battered down. The Dsobel : gov't should take the world -- including cyberspace -- as they find it and not try to mandate the way Dsobel : we communicate or the way we build our houses. there are a bunch of things that make law Dsobel : enforcement more difficult -- including the Constitution and Bill of Rights. OnlineHost : Dave Sobel, legal counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center, OnlineHost : is taking your questions on electronic privacy. Question : Which public online service is the safest in terms of keeping E-mail private? Dsobel : That's really impossible to say. Since almost all mail traverses the internet, the risks are Dsobel : probably about the same regardless of the service you use. Question : What bills are pending on the clipper chip that we need to oppose? Dsobel : Clipper is not before Congress. It is purely an administrative initiative. Congress has looked at Dsobel : the issue, but may be limited in its response. However, the FBI wiretap bill was introduced in Dsobel : Congress last week. It's an important issue that people should take a look at and express their Dsobel : views on it to Congress. A1 CHUCK : David, didn't Director Freeh of the FBI say there were a few hundred cases in which A1 CHUCK : law enforcement couldn't implement court orders in just one month...What was that about? Dsobel : It wasn't for one month, but we really don't know what the facts are. Last week, EPIC filed suit Dsobel : against the FBI seeking the release of those statistics. The FBI has made these claims, but Dsobel : the information has not been released to the public. EPIC believes that such information must Dsobel : be released before any of us can intelligently discuss the FBI wiretap bill, which call for a Dsobel : half billion $ to be spent to make the phone system "wiretap friendly." Question : Where does the funding come from for your center? Dsobel : We are supported by individual contributions and foundation grants. We're a tax-deductible, non- Dsobel : profit organization. A1 CHUCK : Our guest has been David Sobel, legal counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information A1 CHUCK : Center. David, first congrats, you are fighting the good fight and raising critical A1 CHUCK : issues. I want you back online with us when the FBI joins us in a few weeks. A1 CHUCK : thanks again and bye. join us in the audience for the next session if you can. Dsobel : Thanks, I've enjoyed it. Folks can e-mail me for more info -- . A1 CHUCK : Coming up Mark Kellner, who skipped school the day they taught "shy" will bring his A1 CHUCK : talents as Computer Columnist for the Washington Times and a regular contributor to A1 CHUCK : key computer magazines to Mobile Office Online and talk with a gentleman who is A1 CHUCK : really helping shape computer policy in this country. Professor David J. Farber is a A1 CHUCK : telecommunications professor at the University of Pennsylvania and from the classroom A1 CHUCK : to the congressional hearing room, he is informed and outspoken on the issue of privacy. A1 CHUCK : He was recently quoted as saying "the key issue is do you trust your government? A1 CHUCK : That may be the key question here. Professor Farber before I relinquish the floor or I A1 CHUCK : should say the keys to Mark Kellner of the Washington Times, let me ask you if you have A1 CHUCK : a sense as to whether the argument about clippers and such is theoretical or are we A1 CHUCK : actually on the brink of seeing action allowing the government to put mikes in all our A1 CHUCK : hard drives? DJFarber : I believe that clipper and the new digital telephony bills are a first step into what Orwell DJFarber : should have called 1994. It is the start of a slide DJFarber : I consider the digital telephony bill the most dangerous MarkKel : Professor, Mark Kellner of The Washington Times here, when you say it is the start of a slide ... MarkKel : ...where do you see the slide ending? DJFarber : I see the slide ending with more and more government intervention DJFarber : in our private conversations. It will be the DJFarber : equivalent in cyberspace of having mikes in our living DJFarber : and bed rooms. DJFarber : I don't think the Clinton/Gore Administration will do that but DJFarber : they are setting the stage for some future DJFarber : administration to do it to us MarkKel : You said the digital telephony bill is the worst, would you give our audience a brief description ... MarkKel : of the bill and why it is so bad for us? DJFarber : The STB allows the government to demand connection information DJFarber : for telephone calls in real time and in much more DJFarber : detail and flexibility then we now have. It also DJFarber : forces the taxpayer to pay maybe 5 billion to DJFarber : reengineer the telephone system to better spy on us DJFarber : Watergate would have been difficult with such a technology DJFarber : eventually they will want email records of who sends to whom and later what was sent. A1 CHUCK : If you just joined us on Mobile Office Online, our special guest is Professor David A1 CHUCK : Farber of the University of Pennsylvania. He is an expert on this issue and has A1 CHUCK : testified before Congress and been a leader in focusing on the dangers of invading A1 CHUCK : the privacy of the electronic world. Mark Kellner of the Washington Times is with A1 CHUCK : us and he has yielded the floor and keyboard to our audience. So, Chris Peacock, A1 CHUCK : our producer, will invite your questions. OnlineHost : OK. Let's take a question from a member of our audience. OnlineHost : To ask a question, click on the interact icon at the top of your screen, OnlineHost : type in your question or comment, and click "send." Question : The Electronic Frontier Foundation says the Administration will push for the equivalent of Question : the Clipper, just dressed with a new label - do you agree? DJFarber : The administration will indeed push clipper and DJFarber : will and is trying to internationalize it. Labels don't make any difference DJFarber : it is who holds the keys and whether some future Nixon can access them. OnlineHost : Tonight we're discussing the issue of electronic privacy. OnlineHost : Joining us is Dave Farber, professor of telecommunications at the University of Pennsylvania OnlineHost : and board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Question : Are Online services subject to government regulation? DJFarber : I am not a lawyer but my understanding is not in general DJFarber : except there are laws (increasingly more confusing DJFarber : that govern the liability and contents that they can carry OnlineHost : OK. Let's take another question from a member of our audience. Question : I thought the clipper chip brouhaha was over since the unbreakable code went out over the Question : internet. DJFarber : The attitude of the "public servants" is that they can slow DJFarber : down the use of such codes by commercial and expert control DJFarber : pressures. They did that with DES and will do it DJFarber : with PGP and other codes. They will encourage DJFarber : clipper type. The mass market will choose which one? Want to guess Question : Where is the government getting the technology to do all this (re: wiretap bill)? DJFarber : The are forcing (or will force ) the equipment manufacturers to DJFarber : do the engineering and will pay them for the costs. I call it the software full employment act of 1994. OnlineHost : OK. Let's take a question from a member of our audience. Question : Can we get updates on your investigations into privacy invasions, DF? Or are you doing Question : this research for other reasons? DJFarber : The EFF (and others) track that. I am interested DJFarber : from a personal point of view and teach a course DJFarber : at Penn on Computer Ethics and society DJFarber : where I go over this stuff DJFarber : Also my home page DJFarber : http://macpond.cis.upenn.edu/ DJFarber : has some materials and pointers. A1 CHUCK : Mark Kellner of the Washington Times is with us. He usually asks the A1 CHUCK : questions but I want to turn the table. Mark, is it politically advantageous for the A1 CHUCK : president right now with all his problems to take a stand favoring clipper. A1 CHUCK : Will this issue drift into his A1 CHUCK : reelection campaign? MarkKel : It is kind of curious that a President who has a Legal Defense Fund going is big on this business... MarkKel : of going after crime everywhere, including our hard disk drives. However, I believe that Mr. Clinton.. MarkKel : will lose points on his general crime bill before the clipper issue rears its ugly head ... MarkKel : however, this won't help Clinton with the techie community. A1 CHUCK : For all of you in the rows who just discovered us, Professor David Farber of A1 CHUCK : University of Pennsylvania is with us. If you follow this issue, he is a key player in A1 CHUCK : influencing policy in telecommunications. Professor, what are the political realities A1 CHUCK : of this issue for the White House and Congress? DJFarber : It is hard for a democratic president to be seen as soft on crime and terrorism. I DJFarber : believe that was the forcing pressure that allowed DJFarber : the FBI and NSA to get this going. I believe DJFarber : it has taken too much time and energy from the staff DJFarber : at the Whitehouse and caused the NII and other actions DJFarber : to slip and die down DJFarber : also I see the techies going to a third party if a rational one develops and DJFarber : abandoning the current admin. I have not yet. OnlineHost : OK. Let's take a question from a member of our audience. OnlineHost : To ask a question, click on the interact icon at the top of your screen, OnlineHost : type in your question or comment, and click "send." Question : I thought "the government" is "by the people, for the people". Yet today "PEOPLE" and Question : "GOVT" are treated, even by the media, as separate entities. Is something wrong here? If so Question : what, and how did we get here? DJFarber : We got there during Nam and Watergate. When I sent out to DJFarber : my interesting people mailing list the clipper DJFarber : material I said the basic question was do you trust your government DJFarber : my 23 year old son said to his generation the term DJFarber : trust government had no meaning. The question DJFarber : is how do we get back from where DJFarber : we are OnlineHost : Tonight we're discussing the issue of electronic privacy. OnlineHost : Joining us is Dave Farber, professor of telecommunications at the University of Pennsylvania OnlineHost : and board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Question : What about the privacy aspect as it regards hackers? Can't they still tap into your Question : privacy????? DJFarber : Currently all email and most systems are very tapable DJFarber : the technology exists to make it more robust DJFarber : but we don't seem to be getting it DJFarber : encrypted links, privacy enhanced mail etc. have been feasible DJFarber : and prototypes for almost 10 years and yet we don't have it DJFarber : time to fix that before the nets are useless and become the CB radio of the 90s. MarkKel : Professor, what about the people who say the entry of Uncle Sam into the info-bahn is needed ... MarkKel : in order to catch the bad guys, drug dealers, terrorists and the like is this a valid ... MarkKel : argument or is the Administration blowing smoke? DJFarber : It is all too easy to say that DJFarber : I don't believe any additional laws are needed. We have laws galore DJFarber : much of the real law world is done my leather and people DJFarber : not electronics DJFarber : After all they don't demand to open my main (I hope) DJFarber : That's my mail. A1 CHUCK : Mark Kellner is the computer columnist for the Washington Times and has been an A1 CHUCK : editorial director of Mobile Office magazine. You can access our articles, product A1 CHUCK : comparisons etc. by keywording MOBILE. Coming up later this hour will be Donn Parker A1 CHUCK : from SRI International, a think and action tank with involvement with this issue. We are A1 CHUCK : here every Wednesday night with an open press conference. Chris let's take audience A1 CHUCK : questions until we wrap the half hour up. Question : So far, where do you feel "Big Business" stands on the Clipper issue? DJFarber : They are opposed for hard nose business reasons. It is unlikely that they will be able to DJFarber : sell clipper devices off shore (would you want the govern listening if you were France Question : Professor Farber, have you heard about AT&T's special task force to go after hackers? Do Question : you think it's ridiculous? DJFarber : It is simplistic and will most likely end up with them violating our rights if they DJFarber : are not super careful. As far as I know that was never coordinated with anyone .. a grand stand? A1 CHUCK : Professor as we wind down this segment, put on your prophesy hat. What will A1 CHUCK : privacy be like in our electronic world as we end this century which feels like an hour A1 CHUCK : and a half away? DJFarber : Hmmm DJFarber : I suspect we will be in an era where you will not do whistle blowing over the network and phone DJFarber : and will be careful with what you say. I think the odds are even DJFarber : that any form of encryption save clipper type will be outlawed and like guns will DJFarber : be only available to law breakers (in the main) DJFarber : Wish I felt a lot better. It is a hard task DJFarber : for EFF and EPIC cooperating together to protect our remaining bill of rights A1 CHUCK : Thank you professor Farber..wish we could all visit your class. Wait a minute. A1 CHUCK : We can. How about us arranging to get transcripts of some of your talks A1 CHUCK : and bringing them online as part of our Mobile Office reference library. DJFarber : Sure thing. I will send transcripts (wish I could send audio). A1 CHUCK : We will be in touch. Bye and join us in the audience as we welcome Donn Parker of SRI International. A1 CHUCK : Thanks to Mark Kellner who joins us each week to add his perspective as computer A1 CHUCK : columnist for the Washington Times. Bye Mark and thank you. A1 CHUCK : For the next half hour we are joined by the distinguished, always outspoken and informed A1 CHUCK : editor of Mobile Office magazine Dan Rosenbaum. He will be interviewing our special A1 CHUCK : guest Donn Parker a senior management consultant at SRI International which I call A1 CHUCK : an action and think tank. As a beginner, Donn can you explain SRI's interest and niche A1 CHUCK : in this issue and what you focus on...then its all to Dan and the audience. DonnParker : WE have an infosec consulting service to large international companies and provide an ongoing DonnParker : service of infosec to about 68 large international corps. Mobiledit : Is your business to teach companies how to secure their systems? DonnParker : Yes, to achieve a standard of due care over their info assets Mobiledit : What qualifies as "due care"? How do you define that? DonnParker : Due care is to use those infosec controls used by other well run companies or are low cost and work. Mobiledit : Is the goal to protect against threats from outside a company or inside? DonnParker : Protect from all sources whether natural, accidental, intentional, inside or outside Mobiledit : Which is the greatest threat -- natural, manmade, accidental, intentional, inside, outside DonnParker : We don't know because there are no valid surveys or statistics on losses. most victims hide their loss Mobiledit : Is hiding the loss a good idea? Shouldn't companies share info about threats? DonnParker : It's not good business to admit such things, but good citizenship requires reporting to the authorities Mobiledit : OK -- let's take some questions from our audience. Chris? OnlineHost : Tonight we're discussing the issue of electronic privacy. OnlineHost : Onstage is Donn Parker, senior management consultant for SRI International, OnlineHost : a not-for-profit research and consulting organization. OnlineHost : To ask a question, click on the interact icon at the top of your screen, OnlineHost : type in your question or comment, and click "send." Question : The national health care that is now being debated in congress contains provisions for a Question : national heath care data network. Doesn't anyone worry that having intimate medical information Question : centralized threatens individual privacy? DonnParker : Centralized info where it can be protected well is and advantage. Mobiledit : But can it be adequately protected? DonnParker : Yes, but it requires high motivation from the providers that comes from law litigation, and DonnParker : social pressure. OnlineHost : OK. Let's take a question from a member of our audience. Question : How do you feel about companies using their own encryption, instead of the governments Question : standard-i.e., the Clipper Chip? DonnParker : I recommend use of their own but they must be careful to avoid information anarchy and absolute privacy Mobiledit : Is information anarchy and absolute privacy the same thing, or am I misunderstanding? DonnParker : Information anarchy is where those employees who encrypt and thus control info are different from DonnParker : those who are accountable for the security of the info. DonnParker : Absolute privacy is the use of strong unescrowed crypto . Mobiledit : Interesting. Thanks. From the audience? Question : Don, where can I get more info on implementing privacy enhanced mail on UNIX, DOS, and Mac? DonnParker : Contact the RSA company that licenses crypto to many companies that supply PEM. OnlineHost : This is Mobile Office Online's open press conference. OnlineHost : Tonight we're discussing the issue of electronic privacy. OnlineHost : Onstage as Mobiledit is Dan Rosenbaum, editor of Mobile Office magazine. OnlineHost : Onstage is Donn Parker, senior management consultant for SRI International, OnlineHost : a not-for-profit research and consulting organization. OnlineHost : OK. Let's take a question from a member of our audience. Question : How can people be expected to report these things, when they have no idea what the laws Question : are or even a reasonable degree of computer literacy? When the perpetrators have all the weapons? DonnParker : They know when they have been victimized. Its the same old crime, fraud theft, larceny, Mobiledit : Do perps really have all the weapons? DonnParker : They have a great advantage. We are forced to play the game by their rules, and we don't even know DonnParker : the game. Question : Isn't easier to set a standard that email is only for public info until security Question : technology catches up? DonnParker : Security technology is already catching up. It's the use of it that hasn't caught up. You can be DonnParker : as secure as you want to be. It's a matter of motivation, cost, and effort. Mobiledit : The half-hour has flown. Donn Parker, senior management consultant at SRI International, Mobiledit : I wish we could take more of your time. Thanks *very* much for your help and comments, Mobiledit : and thanks to all those tuning in. We're late; please join us next week on Mobiledit : Mobile Office Online. Mobiledit : Good night. OnlineHost : Thank you for joining us. OnlineHost : For a transcript of this conference, check out Mobile Office Online's software library. OnlineHost : Copyright Cowles Business Media, 1994